Silverwolf
Dr. William Banes
Good I am just making sure I have listed her fully.
[Rushing Toward a New Age] Discarded Threads of Fate
- Thread starter gatherer818
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gatherer818
One Thousand Club
just a note - I've decided to stop awarding bonus XP until the end of the first story arc, give everyone a chance to earn some normal XP 
you are still welcome to continue posting, anything in the general theme of the first story or personal to your characters is awesome. As a reminder, story one will focus on the region of Harborhead, which is most easily compared to Earth's Africa - large expanses of grasslands with some rainforests mixed in, tribes warring against one another and enslaving one another, while the Realm sits in the small but well developed urban area at the coast, collecting slaves and slave-mined riches to take from the region and give nothing back. It'll quickly become a hotspot in the Realm Civil War, as the different Houses fight to be the one to keep those riches - and at least a few of the players have a radical idea: maybe Harborhead should keep its own riches...
you are still welcome to continue posting, anything in the general theme of the first story or personal to your characters is awesome. As a reminder, story one will focus on the region of Harborhead, which is most easily compared to Earth's Africa - large expanses of grasslands with some rainforests mixed in, tribes warring against one another and enslaving one another, while the Realm sits in the small but well developed urban area at the coast, collecting slaves and slave-mined riches to take from the region and give nothing back. It'll quickly become a hotspot in the Realm Civil War, as the different Houses fight to be the one to keep those riches - and at least a few of the players have a radical idea: maybe Harborhead should keep its own riches...
Silverwolf
Dr. William Banes
And if the game is run as per your idea, the possibility of conflicted PC interested could be more frequent. On top of that there does not have to be one side to this conflict.
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
certainly not. Isn't it always more fun when there are more sides to a conflict?
Wuming
Humble Blade
haha...sounds like fun...ST do not need to build so many NPC...The PCs set up all the plausible conflicts. ST just enjoy Coke and pop-corn, sit back, relax and watch... : p
Coyotekin
Catalytic Diplomat
Hmmm, a prelude could be interesting. We shall see.
Jondera
New Member
Rizon seems to be borked today - I got split from the channels halfway through a scene, and can't reconnect.
So I'm posting what we got done, and we'll finish some other time.
So I'm posting what we got done, and we'll finish some other time.
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
I'd meant to be online today, I owe you and wuming a scene each, but had something come up. I'll look for you later or tomorrow, Jondera.
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
so, I woke up ridiculously early today to blood pouring from my dog. I got around to getting online a bit later than expected. My backlog of people I really need to play a scene with is now like four long... I'll get to working through it ASAP. 
I ~want~ to play one with everyone I haven't yet, but I ~need~ to play at least one with a specific list, for varying reasons. You probably all know who you are. Those of you I've played with a few times, I ask for your understanding if I put you on the back burner for a bit. A handful of players have been dominating my time and the others' set-up is suffering for it.
Today is my one other time commitment I actually planned for ahead of time so hopefully tomorrow and the weekend will give us a chance to get all caught up and ready to start the story proper.
I ~want~ to play one with everyone I haven't yet, but I ~need~ to play at least one with a specific list, for varying reasons. You probably all know who you are. Those of you I've played with a few times, I ask for your understanding if I put you on the back burner for a bit. A handful of players have been dominating my time and the others' set-up is suffering for it.Today is my one other time commitment I actually planned for ahead of time
so hopefully tomorrow and the weekend will give us a chance to get all caught up and ready to start the story proper.
Incendius
Elder Member
Dragonmystic, I'm somewhat confused about something in the latest prelude. You said that demons look for any loopholes they can when they are bound. Was that just something your character said to discourage their use? I ask because that statement isn't true. Demon summoning in Exalted is a direct subversion of traditional demon summoning/deal making in fantasy. The demon will truly internalize your commands and try to perform to the best of their abilities, and in a manner which best fulfills your goals. They won't try to screw you over just because you omitted a clause.
The only problem with demon summoning is that some demon's just don't have a reference for the type of activity you may or may not want them to do. They'll fulfill it to the best of their understanding, but their understanding is sometimes alien (less so for Second/Third circles, who have a better grasp of the human psyche).
One of the given examples is a blood ape guarding a daycare center. If you ask a blood ape to guard the children at a daycare center, they will. They will see that no harm comes to them, that no one disturbs them, and that they are doing everything they possibly can to ensure the safety of the child. However, they will react to the children's parents like any other intruder, ripping them limb from limb if they try to take the children away, because they simply don't understand that the point of a daycare center is to take care of children until their parents can come pick them up. You have to give them specific instructions not to; not because they are going to look for a loophole and intentionally misinterpret it, but because they simply do not understand the why behind the order.
The only problem with demon summoning is that some demon's just don't have a reference for the type of activity you may or may not want them to do. They'll fulfill it to the best of their understanding, but their understanding is sometimes alien (less so for Second/Third circles, who have a better grasp of the human psyche).
One of the given examples is a blood ape guarding a daycare center. If you ask a blood ape to guard the children at a daycare center, they will. They will see that no harm comes to them, that no one disturbs them, and that they are doing everything they possibly can to ensure the safety of the child. However, they will react to the children's parents like any other intruder, ripping them limb from limb if they try to take the children away, because they simply don't understand that the point of a daycare center is to take care of children until their parents can come pick them up. You have to give them specific instructions not to; not because they are going to look for a loophole and intentionally misinterpret it, but because they simply do not understand the why behind the order.
Dragonmystic
Junior Member
Hum, I thought that demon-summoning was highly dangerous: that demons are trying to pretty much get out of Malfeas, and that they chafe against their 'enslavement' that lets them be summoned.
Most of the time, it's not a huge deal: summoners make a deal with the demons, they get to stay out of Malfeas for a while, and the summoner gets work out of them.
But if you assign demons to things they don't like to do--say a perpetual mining assignment--they will try to find any way to get out of it and take revenge on the summoner.
I think this is more of a GM interpretation on this matter, so we'd have to get Gatherer's thoughts on this matter.
Most of the time, it's not a huge deal: summoners make a deal with the demons, they get to stay out of Malfeas for a while, and the summoner gets work out of them.
But if you assign demons to things they don't like to do--say a perpetual mining assignment--they will try to find any way to get out of it and take revenge on the summoner.
I think this is more of a GM interpretation on this matter, so we'd have to get Gatherer's thoughts on this matter.
Incendius
Elder Member
It explicitly isn't a GM interpretation of the matter, that is why I mentioned it. I mean, it is fine if gatherer wants to house rule it, it is his game, but that is not how it works.
Here, text right from the spell:
If the sorcerer wins, this spell exerts unnatural mental influence on the demon, binding it into servitude. The demon becomes loyal (see p. 175) to the character and will serve him for a year and a day, or the demon becomes loyal to a task the character names and will serve it until it is complete—potentially, forever. In either case, the demon returns to Malfeas automatically when the loyalty ends. Demons do not ever spend Willpower to break free of this Servitude effect, and it is their highest—though not their only—loyalty.
Here, text right from the spell:
If the sorcerer wins, this spell exerts unnatural mental influence on the demon, binding it into servitude. The demon becomes loyal (see p. 175) to the character and will serve him for a year and a day, or the demon becomes loyal to a task the character names and will serve it until it is complete—potentially, forever. In either case, the demon returns to Malfeas automatically when the loyalty ends. Demons do not ever spend Willpower to break free of this Servitude effect, and it is their highest—though not their only—loyalty.
Dragonmystic
Junior Member
My friend--more adapt at the rules than I-- says that Demons have a limit track of their own. When they limit break, they do what their break says, even if it goes against the summoners orders.
Incendius
Elder Member
That... isn't exactly accurate. This only occurs if you are using the Abscissic Binding templates from Rolls of Divinity II. Most of the times I've seen demon summoning in play, it has been ignored, because it is too much of a hassle to track the limit levels of an entire retinue of demon (at least for 1st circles).
More importantly,the Limit Break still doesn't make them oppose you.
For example, one of the limit breaks for The Warden, which is meant to bind demons to protect you, is to attack anything that disrespects or threatens you. It is still doing exactly what you asked for it, just not in the most optimal way, and that is only during limit break.
Also, it is easily avoidable. Take The Warden again. Here is some more direct text:
The Warden gains Limit whenever the sorcerer or anything she assigns it to protect is threatened (but no more than once per threat). The sorcerer can reduce its Limit by providing it days of apparent safety, but more importantly, killing a legitimate threat to its charge reduces its Limit to zero, provided it’s not in the midst of Limit Break.
Most bindings have ways to reduce the limit, or are very easy to prevent the demon from gaining limit in the first place. One of the templates, The Slave, only gains limit when the demon is compelled by successes on a virtue roll. So if you are going to summon demons using that template, don't put them in positions where they will be opposed to their virtues, and they will never gain a single point of limit!
There are many other plates that can be used as well; so if you are using the Absicissic Binding rules, all you have to do is play smart, and you will never have to worry about a demon's limit break!
More importantly,the Limit Break still doesn't make them oppose you.
For example, one of the limit breaks for The Warden, which is meant to bind demons to protect you, is to attack anything that disrespects or threatens you. It is still doing exactly what you asked for it, just not in the most optimal way, and that is only during limit break.
Also, it is easily avoidable. Take The Warden again. Here is some more direct text:
The Warden gains Limit whenever the sorcerer or anything she assigns it to protect is threatened (but no more than once per threat). The sorcerer can reduce its Limit by providing it days of apparent safety, but more importantly, killing a legitimate threat to its charge reduces its Limit to zero, provided it’s not in the midst of Limit Break.
Most bindings have ways to reduce the limit, or are very easy to prevent the demon from gaining limit in the first place. One of the templates, The Slave, only gains limit when the demon is compelled by successes on a virtue roll. So if you are going to summon demons using that template, don't put them in positions where they will be opposed to their virtues, and they will never gain a single point of limit!
There are many other plates that can be used as well; so if you are using the Absicissic Binding rules, all you have to do is play smart, and you will never have to worry about a demon's limit break!
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
It is a demon's highest - but not their only - loyalty to serve their summoner. That doesn't mean they won't do anything else they like that they can manage to justify. Normally, it's not an issue, but summoners who try to get over-complicated with their bindings can find they leave loopholes that the demons can act through.
Abscissic Binding provides an additional way for demons to gain Limit, but makes them much more predictable. ALL demons have a listed Limit condition, though.
An example: Summoner A binds a demon to the task of "construct this tower to my specifications". Said demon is likely to behave entirely as expected. Summoner B wants to get more use out of the single demon, and binds it to the task of "build this city, including modifications to be decided later and portions that aren't already planned at this point in time". This demon is likely to, if he hits a point where he doesn't know what to do next to complete his task, simply build whatever he likes. That could be a temple to Malfeas or an orphanage with a fatal structural flaw if he so chooses. He's still completing his task, but he's completing it in a way that also furthers his other goals.
It can happen with demons bound to service rather than tasks, too, if the summoner gets carried away with his orders, but it's much rarer (and much easier fixed, as a new order will override the old). It's usually best to give simple, direct orders to your demons. If they can do what you say AND serve another end at the same time, they may choose to do so (depending on the demon). Abscissic plates help a lot with that by getting you a demon with a specific mind-set - Wardens want to protect things, Slaves want to be told what to do, etc.
Short version: The more you try to twist a summoning, the more likely it is the demon will find a way to accomplish more goals than just your own. They will never act directly against their bound purpose, and task-bound demons will not perform actions that don't bring them closer to completing their task. Limit is usually only a problem when you direct a plate-bound demon to go against type repeatedly, or when a task-binding prevents a demon from fleeing a situation that gives it Limit (such as a crafter-demon that hates the laughter of children working a forge next to a school).
(As a side note, task-binding ends if their task is completed, even if it's a task that might be started up again later.)
Abscissic Binding provides an additional way for demons to gain Limit, but makes them much more predictable. ALL demons have a listed Limit condition, though.
An example: Summoner A binds a demon to the task of "construct this tower to my specifications". Said demon is likely to behave entirely as expected. Summoner B wants to get more use out of the single demon, and binds it to the task of "build this city, including modifications to be decided later and portions that aren't already planned at this point in time". This demon is likely to, if he hits a point where he doesn't know what to do next to complete his task, simply build whatever he likes. That could be a temple to Malfeas or an orphanage with a fatal structural flaw if he so chooses. He's still completing his task, but he's completing it in a way that also furthers his other goals.
It can happen with demons bound to service rather than tasks, too, if the summoner gets carried away with his orders, but it's much rarer (and much easier fixed, as a new order will override the old). It's usually best to give simple, direct orders to your demons. If they can do what you say AND serve another end at the same time, they may choose to do so (depending on the demon). Abscissic plates help a lot with that by getting you a demon with a specific mind-set - Wardens want to protect things, Slaves want to be told what to do, etc.
Short version: The more you try to twist a summoning, the more likely it is the demon will find a way to accomplish more goals than just your own. They will never act directly against their bound purpose, and task-bound demons will not perform actions that don't bring them closer to completing their task. Limit is usually only a problem when you direct a plate-bound demon to go against type repeatedly, or when a task-binding prevents a demon from fleeing a situation that gives it Limit (such as a crafter-demon that hates the laughter of children working a forge next to a school).
(As a side note, task-binding ends if their task is completed, even if it's a task that might be started up again later.)
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
By the way, everyone, I heard a few express concerns that the game is slowing down a bit. Don't worry - I've been waiting for it to get down under a scene a day so I'll be able to actually plan a little bit ahead of the players. There's one or two players I need to get introduced, and one player who'll be pretty key during the first story who will be unavailable for a little while, ending the start of next week. I figure that's as good a time as any to get the main story underway, so that's when I'm aiming to get the game REALLY started. Like the pages and pages of preludes weren't a real start or something
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
Of the players who have been on Pattern Spider at least once in the last week or two, I think only one hasn't been introduced yet, and I've sent them a message so I can talk to them about how to include them in the first scene. With any luck, that'll happen today. Let's do this thing
Incendius
Elder Member
If anyone wants to, Meliah can use her training charms (Harmonious Academic Methodology + Legendary Scholar Curriculum) to teach people during the downtime. 1 month -> 4 weeks in Exalted, so you can get up to 4 traits from Meliah that those charms can train and that she has.
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
I might mention that HAM only takes 5 hours of work, so it just costs you slightly over a half day. You don't get the benefit for a week (and poor Meliah has to keep the motes committed for that week), but that means you can spend one day grabbing two Attributes and spend the other 3 and 6/7ths weeks training Abilities normally.
Incendius
Elder Member
It is well worth the cost 
.
The most efficient use of the training is probably attributes, since we have a bunch of XP and little time, but I would like to note that Meliah can also train charms (through Terrestrial Edification Method), so if she has a charm that you want, one of your weeks can be occupied learning that.
.The most efficient use of the training is probably attributes, since we have a bunch of XP and little time, but I would like to note that Meliah can also train charms (through Terrestrial Edification Method), so if she has a charm that you want, one of your weeks can be occupied learning that.
Jtuxyan
Senior Member
A little competition is a good thing. Thus, Hoisen will offer to sell training time for any use (including Essence), for the low low price of a sample of your blood. She's making an artifact! And Celestial blood is such a useful reagent. Oaths will, of course, be sworn that the artifact is in no way injurious to you and the blood will not be used for any other purpose.
Esbilon
Seven Thousand Club
Karrilah will be happy to help with tiger warrior training, but dont't count on her offering her services like a common peddler ;-)
Jtuxyan
Senior Member
I am no common peddler!
snake obsidian
One Thousand Club
I´m interested on learning sorcery.
gatherer818
One Thousand Club
I can't find this Terrestrial Edification Method, I'm assuming it's from a source I'll need to ok, although it doesn't sound like anything I'm concerned about. If it takes a week to train a Charm, it's hardly better than standard training times.
For dots under 6, Charms that don't have a 6+ in their requirements, and spells below your max level, ignore the need to double training times if you don't have a tutor. I just realized I never mentioned this, but I just use the chart as written regardless of having a tutor for anything an Exalt can just be assumed to be good at. I'll go officially add it to the houserules section as well.
For dots under 6, Charms that don't have a 6+ in their requirements, and spells below your max level, ignore the need to double training times if you don't have a tutor. I just realized I never mentioned this, but I just use the chart as written regardless of having a tutor for anything an Exalt can just be assumed to be good at. I'll go officially add it to the houserules section as well.
