Dice Rifts - The Thirteenth Mystery - OOC

[Sherwood]

I have a sheet that is about 95% done up for our wonderful storyteller to look at.

Epiphany

 

[EmperorNorton1]

I have a sheet thats barely started- im excited to see your sheet though, sherwood!

 

[Sherwood]

Thanks! I have some of my tattoos to finish writing up, along with a good backstory and deciding on a picture and name, but the rest of the character is done.

 

[Purr]

Super open to any ideas you have.

Epiphany Thank you! =)

Hey everybody! It's brainstorm time! I hope you enjoy this lengthy post. =)

I am doing this on my smartphone so please forgive any errors, etc.

Spoiler: A spoiler so I don't take up too much of your channel.

There are four things I want concerning important social transactions in Palladium. In order, they are my Players, the people involved in the transaction, what they want, and how they want to go about trying to get it.

Let's dive in, shall we?

#1. My Players. I want to know. How interested is the group as a whole in this kind of social entertainment? The less they care about it, the fewer die rolls I make. The more into it they are, the more I give.

#2. The Characters. If one character is trying to seduce another, but their target is, say, absolutely loyal and happily married, the seducer has no chance. No die rolls needed. Or if they are for some other reason completely uninterested in a way that you think is insurmountable (a heterosexual guy getting into a woman who's only interested in other women). Case closed.

I might even spice this little scene up for the sake of fun. If female character A is trying to flash her sexy legs at male homosexual character B, she might get a comment from A like...
"Honey, I've seen better legs on a chicken dinner. Now why don't you flap your little wings out of my sight?"

However, if smiling and confident Titania of the Voluptuous Mounds is trying to seduce the meek and fidgeting Dirk the Dark Dork, and if he's trying to resist her, it is time for the dice!

Oh. If during the course of the conversation it turns out that neither side is trying to resist (it's mutual), why roll? Maybe it's time to fade to black and let the characters do the rolling around if you get my meaning. =)

The characters and what they want or don't want determine it all.

#3. What is Character A trying to get out of Character B?

#4. How is Character A trying to go about getting what they want?

In the case of #2, and if the PCs don't find social interaction fun, I'll keep it quick.

I might just have Titania's Player roll a Seduction percentage roll. If it fails, Dirk automatically catches on and acts accordingly. If it succeeds, I'll treat it like a Saving Throw vs. Mind Control. I will take into account Dirk's M.E. attribute and modifier along with any other Saving Throw O.C.C./R.C.C./etc. modifiers that makes sense.

If Dirk fails, then it appears he has been mesmerized by those mounds. Good luck, Dirk. You'll need it. But that's all I do. Game on.

Now. If the PCs are really into social interaction, and they would love to play out like a scene out of Rifts meets Pride and Prejudice or *insert popular soap opera drama of your choice*, well, my fellow geeks, I can do that too. =)

Here come more die rolls and more roleplaying! =) I want each of the character's I.Q., M.E., M.A., and P.B. Attributes along with every other bit about them I can find that might be fun to play with - basically I want their character sheets in front of me.

I take a good long look and think of everything that I know about their histories, their desires, their responsibilities, their current physical and emotional states and recent happenings. Things like that.

Once I have a solid grasp on both characters, I tell my wonderful Players, "Roleplay it!" This is the part that I also help out the Players if they need it.

If either or both of my Players are earnestly trying and they need a bit of help to understand what their characters might do, then I'll pitch in and help them out by offering advice and letting them decide. I will get into that more if you would like me to.

From here on out, I want to see the characters interacting in a way that is accurately described by the Players. This includes good dialogue or poor choices on the part of the Players.

When Titania's Player declares a Seduction roll, I might now give the highly intelligent Dirk a Perception roll vs. Titania's own M.A.. Is she socially savvy enough to hide her intent?

Note: I.Q. and Perception are indeed linked (as I believe Good Ol' Sherwood described? If memory serves, this information can also be found in Rifts Ultimate Edition, Attributes section, in a table towards the back half of the book before Skills).

Why I.Q./Perception? Because I want to know if Dirk realizes she is being seduced (his Player might know but the character might not; an experienced roleplayer probably knows the difference). I think brainy people have an edge here. Wouldn't you act differently? Brainy Dirk might catch on and try to turn the tables, going along with her to get what he wants without giving her what she wants.

Why M.E.? The smartest guy in the world with no backbone is going to crumble like a house of cards against a serious seductress who has him when he wants her.

Why M.A.? Shouldn't the Seduction Skill be enough? This depends on where they take the conversation. How well do they express themselves?
If Dirk's voice cracks every time he tries to sound macho, it might not have the effect he's looking for.

And P.B.? That's the easiest one. Ask any animal during Spring if physical hotness makes a difference. Or any high schooler year-round for that matter. Or nearly all adults the world over.

P.B. also might play an important part concerning any existing love interest that say, Dirk might already be involved with. Ask yourself. What is a person with an average P.B. Attribute going to do when Dirk knows he has a total babe with a P.B. of 25 waiting for him at home? And, oh yes, she's not just good looking. She can cook too. And he knows it.

If you were Dirk the Dark Dork, would you take any chance of ruining that relationship? I feel only Dirk's Player can say. That's part of the beauty of roleplaying. Especially indepthly. You get to discover eye-opening wonders about your characters you might not have learned otherwise.

Just like in real life, people tend to learn a lot more about themselves under stress than when things are nice and serene. Social interactions, of course, can be both.

But that's probably enough for now. Pips? Is that what you were looking for? Any questions, lady?

Honor and fun,
Dann =)

 

[Purr]

Oh. One more thing I feel I ought to mention.

Spoiler: Here.

If at any time I feel the interest in the scene beginning to wane, or feel my Players would simply like to move the scene along, I swiftly wrap things up and keep the ball rolling.

This goes double for tabletop games when I have the luxury to sit in front of you and watch/listen to your reactions and such.

=)

 

[Epiphany]

As principles go, those are fine ones. As it turns out, Rifter 60 and 61 have much more involved mechanics for social interaction, expanding off of the Physical Beauty/Mental Affinity traits. Frankly, their system's more involved than one I'd put together.

I think it gets back to what players are interested in doing. If someone has a desire to place a 'face' character who is good at fast talking, bluffing, deception or presenting the party/giving speeches, if there's someone who wants to play a leader who has a Leadership Skill and they want it to be actually meaningful mechanically...let's talk. Otherwise, I may just default to RP.

If my years of playing Exalted have taught me anything, it's easy to overengineer a system but your first thing, Dannigan, continues to resonate for me. Let's see if players want more mechanical options than what the myriad Rifts books can offer first and then I'll see what I can do.

 

[Epiphany]

Some House Rules I've been mulling over:
1. A roll of a 1 to strike always misses. A modified roll of 1-4 to strike always misses. If you roll a 3 but you have a +3 to strike, you hit. Any issues with this approach? Everyone's more accurate but that's true for NPCs too...
2. Full Conversion Cyborg OCC characters use the Robot Strength chart. I might lean towards Partial Conversion Cyborg OCCs for that matter.
3. I like Sherwood's "you gain a new skill with every levelup" so I'm inclined to go with that too.
4. For every level, your character has a +1 they can award to any trait that isn't attacks per melee round (strike, pull punch, perception, etc.). This represents the fruits of their hard-earned experience. If spent on a skill, it's treated as a +5% increase. I like the idea of making specialization possible, I like the idea of two 10th level characters of the same OCC not looking so much alike mechanically and this feels like a decent way.
5. Rolling with impact doesn't necessarily require rolling yourself through the air or across the ground, it can represent bracing against impact for cinematic characters using a melee action to roll for half damage on a hit. You don't have to move.
6. Backflips gain full dodge bonus; they're basically a variation of the dodge action.
6a. Any time that Palladium is going to penalize you for doing something cinematically awesome just because it's 'more difficult' I'm probably open to wiping out the penalty.
7. Body Block/Tackle modifier: Add 5% to the knockdown chance for every 1 point of P.S. the attacker has over the defender (and lose 5% for every 1 point under the defender). Is it weird to anyone else that actual mass and muscle seem so irrelevant to this technique? Or do you guys like it the way it is?

Opinions on each are eagerly sought! I have no ego and no vested interest in "This is the right or wrong way to play Rifts" so if you feel strongly about something, speak up so I don't naively adopt a house rule you can't stand.

 

[Sherwood]

With this in mind, I have some editing to do.

 

[EmperorNorton1]

I think it gets back to what players are interested in doing. If someone has a desire to place a 'face' character who is good at fast talking, bluffing, deception or presenting the party/giving speeches, if there's someone who wants to play a leader who has a Leadership Skill and they want it to be actually meaningful mechanically...let's talk. Otherwise, I may just default to RP.

As it turns out, I really do, but I am desperately lost. Do you have an idea of what way I could be steered, classwize? Thank you

 

[Purr]

Some House Rules I've been mulling over:
1. A roll of a 1 to strike always misses. A modified roll of 1-4 to strike always misses. If you roll a 3 but you have a +3 to strike, you hit. Any issues with this approach? Everyone's more accurate but that's true for NPCs too...
2. Full Conversion Cyborg OCC characters use the Robot Strength chart. I might lean towards Partial Conversion Cyborg OCCs for that matter.
3. I like Sherwood's "you gain a new skill with every levelup" so I'm inclined to go with that too.
4. For every level, your character has a +1 they can award to any trait that isn't attacks per melee round (strike, pull punch, perception, etc.). This represents the fruits of their hard-earned experience. If spent on a skill, it's treated as a +5% increase. I like the idea of making specialization possible, I like the idea of two 10th level characters of the same OCC not looking so much alike mechanically and this feels like a decent way.
5. Rolling with impact doesn't necessarily require rolling yourself through the air or across the ground, it can represent bracing against impact for cinematic characters using a melee action to roll for half damage on a hit. You don't have to move.
6. Backflips gain full dodge bonus; they're basically a variation of the dodge action.
6a. Any time that Palladium is going to penalize you for doing something cinematically awesome just because it's 'more difficult' I'm probably open to wiping out the penalty.
7. Body Block/Tackle modifier: Add 5% to the knockdown chance for every 1 point of P.S. the attacker has over the defender (and lose 5% for every 1 point under the defender). Is it weird to anyone else that actual mass and muscle seem so irrelevant to this technique? Or do you guys like it the way it is?

Opinions on each are eagerly sought! I have no ego and no vested interest in "This is the right or wrong way to play Rifts" so if you feel strongly about something, speak up so I don't naively adopt a house rule you can't stand.

Pips, do you mind my two cents again? Or should I refrain?

 

[Eonivar]

As it turns out, I really do, but I am desperately lost. Do you have an idea of what way I could be steered, classwize? Thank you

I am kind of stumped as well. My first thoughts have been some sort of Body Fixer doctor-healer type that served the wounded throughout the war and was at the Hospital at the end, or a more utility-healing type Mystic...but if we are going towards more action oriented...I may consider something else (Cyber knight maybe)..

 

[Sherwood]

I'm off the opinion that a Cyber Knight is a great class to play, especially against a robot/tech heavy force like the Coalition.

 

[Epiphany]

As it turns out, I really do, but I am desperately lost. Do you have an idea of what way I could be steered, classwize? Thank you

There is an enormous range of OCCs and RCCs, many of which can be socially skilled. There's a book on Black Markets and criminal types that has a bunch of OCCs that use varying degrees of deception and cunning to accomplish their goals, though they're not particularly powerful. I'll try to skim through an OCC index sometime this week and see if I can suggest one.

Anyone else have a suggestion?

Pips, do you mind my two cents again? Or should I refrain?

Your input is always welcome! It's not like I haven't been commenting on a game I'm not in all week. . And you're welcome to join this one but I also know you have a cap on how many games you're in so no worries if this is over capacity (or if the premise isn't to your taste).

I am kind of stumped as well. My first thoughts have been some sort of Body Fixer doctor-healer type that served the wounded throughout the war and was at the Hospital at the end, or a more utility-healing type Mystic...but if we are going towards more action oriented...I may consider something else (Cyber knight maybe)..

I'm willing to run whatever you guys want to play. Which I know puts more burden on you guys then you're probably used to. But in all seriousness, I freely encourage you guys to talk out how much action you want and maybe if there's a couple of plans you think your character would advocate for. That might help you and others to build their character concepts, it sounds like. Something I didn't anticipate when I put the premise up!

* If you do try assassinating the emperor of the Coalition, probably plan to build with some stealth capabilities for everyone.
* If you want to run the Coalition wars campaign but with the advantage of foreknowledge, absolutely build combat characters (and again there are some interesting mass combat roles in the rifter that might be very appropriate for this approach).
* If you want to do some empire building, forge diplomatic ties or engage in social injury, then having some social skill would help!

 

[EmperorNorton1]

If we choose the first option, Political assassination always needs a propaganda man. I’d take that role. They don’t have anarchist as an alighnment for nothing.

 

[Eonivar]

probably plan to build with some stealth capabilities for everyone.

This does bring an idea to mind for me: a Psi-Ghost. I think I will start brainstorming a Psi-Ghost who had run messages in and out of Tolkeen during the war.

 

[Epiphany]

Some deciding out of character is entirely appropriate, given that it sounds like it'll help with building character concepts. I definitely don't want in character conversation that leads to a plan that leaves a player feeling like they built the wrong character for the game. I very much want to avoid that.

That said, the exact plan you guys go with I'm hoping to see worked out in character. Your characters have lived through 8 or 9 years of the worst war in living history and they lost. Now they have a chance impossible to imagine.
Imagine the crew of Serenity from Firefly, at the beginning of the war against the Alliance.
Imagine Obi-Wan Kenobi or Ashoka Tano living through all those Star wars movies only to find themselves back at the beginning of episode two.
This campaign strives to be at least as great as that premise.

While I would prefer not to split the party, nothing stops the group from working on more than one plan at a time, for that matter!

 

[Sherwood]

Epiphany can you put the added stuff about the character creation in the character thread? That way it will be easier to find.

 

[Epiphany]

If we choose the first option, Political assassination always needs a propaganda man. I’d take that role. They don’t have anarchist as an alighnment for nothing.

As noted in the recruitment thread, I'm leery about alignments and particularly behavior that makes it hard for characters to work in a group. That said, diversity in viewpoint is fun and adds new perspective with the potential for (good) drama.

Let's see how it goes in terms of character pitches and concepts. If several people want to play Cyber Knights, White Rose Knights, Psyscape principled types, again diversity is good but be conscious of the need to work with the group.

 

[Epiphany]

Epiphany can you put the added stuff about the character creation in the character thread? That way it will be easier to find.

If you mean the house rules, they're more proposals at the moment. If everyone thinks they're great, then consider them official house rules but I wanted to hear from people on what they thought, especially if they have experience with the system and can warn me from making a terrible mistake.

 

[Sherwood]

If you mean the house rules, they're more proposals at the moment. If everyone thinks they're great, then consider them official house rules but I wanted to hear from people on what they thought, especially if they have experience with the system and can warn me from making a terrible mistake.

Ah. I understand now.

 

[Sherwood]

As noted in the recruitment thread, I'm leery about alignments and particularly behavior that makes it hard for characters to work in a group. That said, diversity in viewpoint is fun and adds new perspective with the potential for (good) drama.

Let's see how it goes in terms of character pitches and concepts. If several people want to play Cyber Knights, White Rose Knights, Psyscape principled types, again diversity is good but be conscious of the need to work with the group.

What is a White Rose Knight? I've never heard of that class before.

 

[EmperorNorton1]

As noted in the recruitment thread, I'm leery about alignments and particularly behavior that makes it hard for characters to work in a group. That said, diversity in viewpoint is fun and adds new perspective with the potential for (good) drama.

I don’t want to be the cause of chaos, I suppose my views of “anarchist” are rather different than the creators of the game. I’ll take a more CG than CN stance, to use dnd phrasing. But still, after living through eight years of hell, one might be willing to do anything to prevent it.

No idea on class, it is rather late in my time zone, I have a nightmare of a chemistry test tomorrow, so goodnight yall , and if you have ideas, just tag me : D

 

[Epiphany]

What is a White Rose Knight? I've never heard of that class before.

They're in MadHaven. They're the reskinned Mystic Knights (although per the write-up, arguably they came first). They are just as righteous and principled as any Cyber Knight.

There's an NPC one on page 44 of Sorcerer's Revenge, as an example.

For everyone, you might consider glancing through Coalition wars 3: sorcerer's revenge. There are a lot of NPC groups with individual NPC write-ups that you might use as an example to gauge your character against, or even use if there's a particular character you really like and you'd like to play them or something.

 

[Epiphany]

I don’t want to be the cause of chaos, I suppose my views of “anarchist” are rather different than the creators of the game. I’ll take a more CG than CN stance, to use dnd phrasing. But still, after living through eight years of hell, one might be willing to do anything to prevent it.

No idea on class, it is rather late in my time zone, I have a nightmare of a chemistry test tomorrow, so goodnight yall , and if you have ideas, just tag me : D

Good luck! Again, focus on the school you have, this game can wait until next week or the week after if you've got school to wrap up. This is a 30-year-old RPG with a hundred books and even reading just a few is a commitment of time. By all means, do the reading you need IRL.

 

[Purr]

Your input is always welcome! It's not like I haven't been commenting on a game I'm not in all week. . And you're welcome to join this one but I also know you have a cap on how many games you're in so no worries if this is over capacity (or if the premise isn't to your taste).

Epiphany After giving this serious thought, I should not join this game, at least not now. Thanks, though! I'll provide the whys behind it if you're interested. =)

Anyone else have a suggestion?

The Black Market book is also my first choice for socially-aggressive characters (like the Con Man).

I’ll take a more CG than CN stance, to use dnd phrasing.

EmperorNorton1 Unprincipled alignment, then?

Okies. Brainstorm time again! =)

Spoiler: One gamer's thoughts on Pips's 7 House Rules.

Some House Rules I've been mulling over:
1. A roll of a 1 to strike always misses. A modified roll of 1-4 to strike always misses. If you roll a 3 but you have a +3 to strike, you hit. Any issues with this approach? Everyone's more accurate but that's true for NPCs too...
2. Full Conversion Cyborg OCC characters use the Robot Strength chart. I might lean towards Partial Conversion Cyborg OCCs for that matter.
3. I like Sherwood's "you gain a new skill with every levelup" so I'm inclined to go with that too.
4. For every level, your character has a +1 they can award to any trait that isn't attacks per melee round (strike, pull punch, perception, etc.). This represents the fruits of their hard-earned experience. If spent on a skill, it's treated as a +5% increase. I like the idea of making specialization possible, I like the idea of two 10th level characters of the same OCC not looking so much alike mechanically and this feels like a decent way.
5. Rolling with impact doesn't necessarily require rolling yourself through the air or across the ground, it can represent bracing against impact for cinematic characters using a melee action to roll for half damage on a hit. You don't have to move.
6. Backflips gain full dodge bonus; they're basically a variation of the dodge action.
6a. Any time that Palladium is going to penalize you for doing something cinematically awesome just because it's 'more difficult' I'm probably open to wiping out the penalty.
7. Body Block/Tackle modifier: Add 5% to the knockdown chance for every 1 point of P.S. the attacker has over the defender (and lose 5% for every 1 point under the defender). Is it weird to anyone else that actual mass and muscle seem so irrelevant to this technique? Or do you guys like it the way it is?

Opinions on each are eagerly sought! I have no ego and no vested interest in "This is the right or wrong way to play Rifts" so if you feel strongly about something, speak up so I don't naively adopt a house rule you can't stand.

1. In my experience, this mostly just results in more die rolls. If I remember a YouTube video with Siembieda, the whole idea of making a "1-4 always misses" rule was to speed the game along; it cut down on the die rolls. Far more often than not, anything below a 5 just plain missed. In my own experience trying a similar House Rule, it also kind of deflated some of the energy of tabletop combat as once everyone saw that super-low roll, most everyone knew what was coming and not in a good way. And far more often than not, they were right. I feel there are better ways to spend the time and energy.

2. I cannot recommend providing body-wide Robotic Strength to Partial Conversion Cyborgs. Instead, I apply Robotic Strength only to the cyber-limb. I believe to make them equal in Robotic P.S. is to share what is a major strength (that was a pun!) for the full-conversion cyborg who, at least in my games, is far more likely to suffer mentally from the conversion than the PC who just got only her arm replaced. In other words, if all you were looking for was Robotic P.S. and a few cool cyber-options, why in the world go full conversion at all?

3. For the sake of facts, this idea was originally mine. I brought it into Broadsword to simplify the leveling-up process. I also added an element where PCs could select from any Skill category with these Skills along with a few other "quality of life" changes (like having Weapon Proficiencies, ancient and modern, gain their pluses at the same rate. 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, and 15th. Things like that).

4. I believe the term "Skill Specialization" is already a thing, at least for Domestic Skills where, if a Skill is purchased twice, it is no longer considered amateur-level, but professional. Line cooks become sous-chefs and so forth. Otherwise, this idea (adding an extra +5%/+1 to something) seems fine and easy to balance. At least at early levels. It's when so-and-so has an additional +6 to Strike at 6th level and hardly ever misses that I would rather see this benefit spread out among different combat options/Skills. Overall, I like this idea!

5. As a Real Life martial artist, I must disagree with this statement. If one cannot (or does not) move, they cannot roll with a punch. The whole idea of rolling with a punch or impact is moving your body away from the blow so that it causes only partial damage instead of full. Ever see a danger coming and even though you know you can't fully move out of the way, you turn to lessen the damage? That's rolling with a punch/impact. Standing there and bracing for it just means you ate it all.

I feel Roll with Punch's big brother is Dodge ("What is best defense? No be there."). So if you can't or don't move, you can't dodge either (ask anybody who's been pinned in a good wrestling hold or lock). But this your game. =)

Spoiler: Very brief example.

Watch closely at the 0:10 mark. Notice how the boxer turns his head away from the blow so he doesn't eat that punch full-on? It's not a dodge and it certainly isn't a parry. The opponent hits, no question about that, but not for nearly the kind of damage he probably wanted out of that hook.

"Boxing Defense | How To Roll Your Head And Chin To Avoid Punches"

6 and 6a. A very cool idea! However, to receive this bonus, I would require that the PC in question have learned the Backflip maneuver. Take Acrobatics, Gymnastics, or if you want to see some really cool backflipping, I think there are several forms of Kung Fu that make it look so good! Parkour too, but as far as I know, Palladium doesn't have a Parkour skill. Perhaps in a Rifter magazine?. =)

7. Again, this is just one gamer's opinion - I think using only P.S. to determine body blocks and tackles is a potential mistake (and one a lot of non-martial artists seem to make). Between two average American Footballers, rugby guys, or hockey players? Sure! P.S. vs. P.S. all the way. Why? That's how many of them are trained.

Throws, leg-takedowns, and sweeps aside, I feel the strength-based sport-players hold no monopoly when defending against a tackle. Take a typical Judo or Jujitsu practitioner. They're not P.S.-based. Never have been. They have a different way of thinking and moving and thus, different tools. Even against tackles.

Spoiler: Brief example.

I think the first two minutes of this video shows just one technique of many and why a universal P.S. vs. P.S. only would be unfair in some situations.

"This is the BEST way to defend against a tackle - even if you're small!"

That's all for now. That's probably enough of my text on the screen, right? =)

Honor and fun,
Dann =)