Problem Players

[Fruan]

Run a spellcheck before posting.  It's not that hard.

Even not having something like MS word is no excuse; behold, my friends, while I share with you my greatest secret -


www.spellcheck.net


I, also, suffer from dyslexia. However I am not a lazy bastard, and so do you all the courtesy of spellchecking (most) of my posts.

 

[Ker'ion]

There is more than one spell checker on this computer.  He refuses to use them because it wastes 30 seconds of his time.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Ker'ion--I made an ass out of me and Ron, and assumed* with his posts that he was much younger.


You and the wife are really good friends for this fella.


But seriously, EM might need some professional help.  Not to be functional perhaps, but as an actual working, living, breathing human being, with hopes, dreams, aspirations, and hope, certainly.  And the State might be able to assist with that.


And the more I hear about this situation, the more I deseperately wish that I had been teaching in that district ten years ago, because if this man's mother is aware of exactly how screwed up this fella is, and is only enabling this sort of disfunction...


I reiterate my desire to have had access to a sherrif and a warrent years ago.  Could have gotten this fella the help he needs and saved him and a few other folks a lot of grief.  


Damn.


*Had a manager, years upon years ago, who used the "ass out of you and me" line as a reflex. Up until my boy Tim interjected one of his tirades on another employee. "You know when you assume..." he began, and Tim stuck his head over the manager's shoulder and in a firm, resolute voice piped in, "...you make an ass out of you and Ron."


Not only did this break up the entire crew, it became our tag line, henceforth every time he began the old lecture.

 

[Ker'ion]

And the last one is a 13 year old neighbor kid that is indecisive about whether or not he's gaming at that time' date=' since, being male, he's attempting to cure his virginity problem.[/quote']
I think either you, your wife, or EM should deflower the boy -- for the sake of the game!


-S

Apparently, he solved the problem by himself last night while he was supposed to be at church

 

[Flagg]

he was supposed to be at church

Damn. 13?


-S

 

[DarkProphet]

Where did you get the idea that EM is a student.  He is 27, lives in my house, and works for his mom under the table.

With how EM apparently behaves... that quite possibly makes him one of the most pathetic human beings I've ever heard of.  You'd think that when a person is nearing 30, that they'd be able to find a real job (working for your mother and getting paid under the table doesn't qualify as a real job, no matter what it is that you're doing for her) and that they'd be able to play a simple game of pretend, such as Exalted, without such behavioral flaws


not to mention the ability to control such "urges" as that to kill, such that they could actually ST a game without apparently feeling it necessary to kill off their players' characters.  Although no doubt that's just some horribly pathetic excuse so as to mask the fact that he's just an asshole and probably feels better about himself and/or feels powerful or in control when he kills off the characters.


That's the kind of excuse that I'd expect an elementary school kid or at most a junior highschooler to give, and even they wouldn't believe it... but someone starting to push 30?  That's just sad.

 

[The Mad hatter]

Urge to Kill Players= Short one shot games were the players know their chars wont live very long but still accomplish somthing (make their deaths worthwile and good)

 

[Kajata]

TBH, I don't think the issue to be discussed here is how lame people think EM is or whatever, the real issue is this; whatever is fucked up in his life or whatever can he play normally in game?  If not, then do something about it.  Either kick him out or whatever.  I mean, from the sounds of it you're already doing a lot for him, so I wouldn't dare to say that you should do more to help him or whatever.  If it's effecting your game then do something about it.

 

[DarkProphet]

Urge to Kill Players= Short one shot games were the players know their chars wont live very long but still accomplish somthing (make their deaths worthwile and good)

that'd be alright, i suppose, as long as the players are aware of it and are alright with it... but I don't think that's what EM meant, it sounds more like if he doesn't get to play in a game while STing a game, he'll just kill off the characters in the game he's STing, whether they want it or are ok with it or not.

 

[The Mad hatter]

true, but its always a suggestion, might help, then again electro shock thearpy can also work wonders

 

[DarkProphet]

true' date=' but its always a suggestion, might help, then again electro shock thearpy can also work wonders[/quote']
True, true.  Of course, I personally could never run a game like that.  Well, not unless my players came to me specifically wanting that kind of game.  I generally wont kill pc's off unless it fits dramatically in the game and I've spoken with the player about it and they're alright with it.  


Oh well, to each their own and all that jazz.


oh, and I think that electro-shock therapy should probably be close to the last resort... I'd go for less potentially lethal options before that, mayhaps Chinese Water Torture or that whole medieval dunking seat thing.


Of course, if it were me, I'd do something like infect them with yersinia pestis and withold the proper antibiotics until I got what I wanted... or perhaps inject them with the neurotoxin produced by clostridium botulinum and withold the antitoxin, although they'd have to be given that within a few minutes at the most before dying so perhaps that's not a good idea.  Another, not so maniacal idea would be to force them to inhale about a million [/i]bacillus anthracis spores, wait for the first symptoms of the pulminary anthrax to show up and then withold the antibiotics and other treatment.  Even then there's a chance they wouldn't die... although with the pulminary infection it's almost impossible to get rid of. (the lungs are checkerblock full of nutrients for the little buggers... which is also why pulminary anthrax is impossible to spread from person to person)


Other good ideas along those lines are to infect them with Hantavirus... I'd suggest Ebola, but Ebola is definitely horizontally communicable, whereas Hantavirus has only shown that capability once and they're not even sure about that one.   There are way too many possiblities, it almost makes me giddy

 

[The Mad hatter]

..... i like you


though one shot games can be fun if the players agree with them, mosty if it is a long single story that they get to do things they cant normally, when i do one shot i give out extra freebies and let them make a char however they want, no qustions asked, then wind them up and let them go, they know the chars will die anyways so they can do what they want, admittivly this can get out of hand, but it can be therputic when everyones been stressed and wants to let a little of their darker half out, not to menchion watching a dawn cast cut a manse in half to shut the twlight up was pretty damn memorable...


a really fun way of using one shots, is if you have a on-going game, let them interact prepherilly with their normal player chars, half the time they cause so many problems for their normal chars you dont have to do anything to screw with them  :twisted:

 

[Persell]

Where did you get the idea that EM is a student.  He is 27, lives in my house, and works for his mom under the table.

With how EM apparently behaves... that quite possibly makes him one of the most pathetic human beings I've ever heard of.  You'd think that when a person is nearing 30, that they'd be able to find a real job (working for your mother and getting paid under the table doesn't qualify as a real job, no matter what it is that you're doing for her) and that they'd be able to play a simple game of pretend, such as Exalted, without such behavioral flaws


not to mention the ability to control such "urges" as that to kill, such that they could actually ST a game without apparently feeling it necessary to kill off their players' characters.  Although no doubt that's just some horribly pathetic excuse so as to mask the fact that he's just an asshole and probably feels better about himself and/or feels powerful or in control when he kills off the characters.


That's the kind of excuse that I'd expect an elementary school kid or at most a junior highschooler to give, and even they wouldn't believe it... but someone starting to push 30?  That's just sad.

Apparently you're a bit anti-social yourself...

 

[Ker'ion]

EM has very little self-control, is a sadist, wants to destroy humanity to keep from reincarnating, and being ADD, gets bored easily.


This is usually the primary cause of his gaming behavior.


If he doesn't get to kill people for real, he wants to kill them IC, so if he has no char's playing, he wants to do it as a ST.


Like I said:


Very little self control.


We need a big rubber room with velcro walls and a velcro straight jacket. :?


His main reason for not acting on his urges is getting caught.

 

[DarkProphet]

i'm a bit reclusive and shy, although i believe that a few doctor's i've been to suggested social anxiety disorder, and although i've looked it up and acknowledge that i exhibit several, if not all, of the notable symptoms... i'll still say that it's mostly shyness and whatnot.


of course, i'm also bitter, sarcastic and cynical... and i have been since middle school.  


nevertheless, my statements concerning the whole 'urge to kill' shit remains true.  i wouldn't even relate that to anti-social problems... it's more of a self control issue, not to mention it's a bit self-centered and/or selfish behavior... that he'd give in to such so-called 'urges' (and really, using "i can't control my 'urge to kill" as an excuse to be an ass and an horrible ST is nothing but a pathetic excuse) to please himself, all to the detriment to the enjoyment for the players is ridiculous.  It's like nothing in the game matters but how much he enjoys it and how much control he has... nobody else, even the players if he's ST, matter one iota.


Also, chances are that almost everyone frequenting the ECR exhibits some form of anti-social behavior to one extent or another... obviously not all of us are severely anti-social or anti-social all the time... but anti-social behavior isn't exactly something that's rare.


As for my little tangent concerning using biological and viral torture methods... that was obviously in jest.  Even if I *could* get a hold of those kinds of biological and viral materials and the proper tools to safely contain, handle and innoculate them, actually using them to harm an innocent person goes against just about everything I believe in.


If they deserve it, that's something else entirely.

 

[DarkProphet]

EM has very little self-control, is a sadist, wants to destroy humanity to keep from reincarnating, and being ADD, gets bored easily.
This is usually the primary cause of his gaming behavior.


If he doesn't get to kill people for real, he wants to kill them IC, so if he has no char's playing, he wants to do it as a ST.


Like I said:


Very little self control.


We need a big rubber room with velcro walls and a velcro straight jacket. :?


His main reason for not acting on his urges is getting caught.

velcro? that's wussy shit... they should just make a solid jacket without even straps and buckles.  Velcro is too easy to undo.


also, if all that's true about him, you do realize that there are places (hospitals) that are specially made to help those kinds of people, don't you?


and sometimes you can have the person admitted even without their approval, if they're a possible harm to themselves and others... and if EM truly does have urges to kill people and urges to destroy humanity and *really* feels it necessary to kill in a game to ease them, then he really should be in one of those hospitals... or we should all go back in time and give his mother a rusty coat hanger for a baby-shower gift... because if those kinds of people aren't proof enough for abortion to be legal, I don't know what is.


also... isn't this the same guy who said he'd do anything to secure his going to heaven?  i'd think that his main reason for not acting on those  urges would be... oh I dunno... the fact that it's one of the first commandments... afterall, we're supposed to cherish and revere life... wanting to kill but not wanting to get caught isn't revering life...

 

[Flagg]

if those kinds of people aren't proof enough for abortion to be legal, I don't know what is.

That makes little sense. Abortion is obviously not a remedy for assholes, since you don't know they're an asshole until after they're born. By then, it's a little late.

also... isn't this the same guy who said he'd do anything to secure his going to heaven?  i'd think that his main reason for not acting on those  urges would be... oh I dunno... the fact that it's one of the first commandments... afterall, we're supposed to cherish and revere life... wanting to kill but not wanting to get caught isn't revering life...

From what EM has said, he completely misses the POINT of his religion, while still beleiving in it adamantly. His pathology probably prevents him from being rational on this point, however.


-S

 

[DarkProphet]

if those kinds of people aren't proof enough for abortion to be legal, I don't know what is.

That makes little sense. Abortion is obviously not a remedy for assholes, since you don't know they're an asshole until after they're born. By then, it's a little late.


-S

True true, I meant that particulacar bit to be connected with what I said about going back in time to give his mother a rusty coat hanger...  if only there was a definite way to decipher if they were going to be assholes when they grew up... but that's all but impossible, considering the only thing you can really determine is genetic possiblities and that kind of thing isn't completely governed by genetics.


guess we'll just have to create a time machine and do it that way.

 

[Jakk Bey]

EriendA--DP anti-social?  


DP gets grandfathered from Old Skool EC and gets to be as cranky as he wants to be.  My boy is wandering my old stomping grounds, so I support his right to be snippy as all get out--s'cold round those parts, and not much in any direction, save a lot of trees, odd Baptists, drunken frat boy wannabes, snow, moose, bears, Down Easters, Yankees, and Transplants who think that Maine's supposed to be like the pages of Yankee magazine, and keep mucking about with a great state.


Seriously.  The big draw in those parts is the Bangor Mall. And Stephen King's Christmas decorations.  DP gets a pass on this issue.

 

[Persell]

Hehe... Of course I didn't mean that Dark Prophet or anyone else here actually is overwhelmingly anti-social. It is just the thoughts that manifested while reading the post (which truly contains anti-social idead, I might add). I'm sure Dark Prophet didn't mean the things in the post quoted literally, but I believe, however, that it adds perspective to the thread.


Well... Back to EM: I would seriously suggest counseling. I had a friend who had some deep problems regarding his self and how he portrayed life and reacted to social situations some years ago. We (his friends) recommended seeing a psychiatrist regurarily, but he refused, and while he has more or less totally recovered now, it took quite some time, and I believe it could have been shortened by some professional help, so I would suggest informing his mother and insisting on getting some professional help, even if he doesn't want it.

 

[DarkProphet]

EriendA--DP anti-social?  
DP gets grandfathered from Old Skool EC and gets to be as cranky as he wants to be.  My boy is wandering my old stomping grounds, so I support his right to be snippy as all get out--s'cold round those parts, and not much in any direction, save a lot of trees, odd Baptists, drunken frat boy wannabes, snow, moose, bears, Down Easters, Yankees, and Transplants who think that Maine's supposed to be like the pages of Yankee magazine, and keep mucking about with a great state.


Seriously.  The big draw in those parts is the Bangor Mall. And Stephen King's Christmas decorations.  DP gets a pass on this issue.

hah, thanks Jakk.  That gave me quite the chuckle.  It has been a bit cold up here lately, although nothing like a few years ago when we were getting record temps, something like the coldest recorded temps since the 20s.  I think the Hg bottomed out at around -30 to -40F but I don't exactly remember.  I do remember that it was cold enough that one the windows in the dorm hallway got a huge crack in it from a combination of the temperature and shoddy lowest-bidder contracting.


Not to mention the cold doing some crazy shit to one of the pipes on the 1st floor, knocking a bracket loose which then knocked some ceiling tiles down... causing this stupid, uptight bitch on the 1st floor to call 911 with a "the building is falling down" story (turned out to be a massive "cry wolf" except she really believed it)  and we had to evacuate the building (on one of the coldest nights on campus) for just over 24 hours.  During the 'town meeting' they held, the stupid bitch wouldn't let go of the idea that there was some serious structural damage to the building... the morons put up 2x4s to make sure no more brackets fell (all of which was unnecessary due to the type of ceiling or something) she apparently thought the 2x4s were holding up the building... a lot of us wanted to strangle her... the engineer or whomever would answer her question about the problem, and she'd come back with "but what about the 2x4s?" they'd answer again and she'd basically ask the same question again.


it makes me wish the building was unsafe and that it had fallen down on top of her.  stupid bitch.


anywho... i'm sure that the area has more things to draw people than the mall and king's house (which I've yet to go see, unfortunately) I just have no idea what they are.  My girlfriend and I are rather fond of Bagel Central. though... and I'm like an idiot school boy when in Penobscot Paint... and now Bangor has an A.C. Moore, with an incredible oil painting supplies supply... along with lots of drawing/sketching stuff and some wonderful caligraphy sets (especially this oriental caligraphy set which I dearly want).     Which makes me wonder where my little 12" wooden posable human-form figurines are.


As for transplants... bah... flat-landers, the bunch of 'em.  Moving here and living here for a year, buying a pick-up and wearing flannel doesn't make you a native Mainer.  You can't be a true Mainer with an out of state accent  


Anyway, thanks for the cheer, Jakk.  I wasn't being cranky, so much as just a bit taken aback at being reminded that people like that can exist for so long, them and others admitting their massive problems, and never seek any kind of help.  Kind of makes you pity him, almost.


I gotta run soon, Sunday is when I run my Exalted game, must prepare.

 

[Ker'ion]

velcro? that's wussy shit... they should just make a solid jacket without even straps and buckles.  Velcro is too easy to undo.

I meant:  A normal straight jacket, with a layer of velcro on the outside, so it will stick to the walls covered in velcro.  Give him something to do when he's bored. :lol:

also... isn't this the same guy who said he'd do anything to secure his going to heaven?  i'd think that his main reason for not acting on those  urges would be... oh I dunno... the fact that it's one of the first commandments... afterall' date=' we're supposed to cherish and revere life... wanting to kill but not wanting to get caught isn't revering life...[/quote']
Somehow, he believes that erradicating the human race is a good thing, so it will exhonorate him of the evil of "Thou Shalt Not Murder." :roll:


He's confusing sometimes.


But I keep him around to keep him from truly going off the deep end.


And to prove to myself that I'm still sane (by comparison, at least).

Well... Back to EM: I would seriously suggest counseling. I had a friend who had some deep problems regarding his self and how he portrayed life and reacted to social situations some years ago. We (his friends) recommended seeing a psychiatrist regurarily, but he refused, and while he has more or less totally recovered now, it took quite some time, and I believe it could have been shortened by some professional help, so I would suggest informing his mother and insisting on getting some professional help, even if he doesn't want it.

He believes that he's on the cause of right, therefore nothing he thinks should be acted upon is wrong.


And his mother thinks that nothing she did caused any of his social problems, so she shouldn't have to get involved in helping fix them.


At least he's not allowed to own a gun.

 

[Persell]

I'm sure that this bitch session will help immensely. It won't, in anyway, make him  go on the defensive and be worse.

 

[DarkProphet]

so... his mother thinks that since she's not the cause, it's not her place to help him, or that she has no reason or cause to help him?  That's messed up in itself... the reason you help someone (especially family) isn't because whatever you're helping them for is your fault, but because they're your family (or another human being)  So perhaps his mother should seek some help as well.


With the other things you said about him, those are some signs of some kind of mental defficiency, I'm not a psych major by any means, but I'd consider those some warning signs of one sort or another.  He obviously needs to actually read, and *understand* the holy religious texts, because he obviously has no clue what they're about.  He should realize that just because you're on the "good" side, that doesn't mean everything you do, even if you say it's in the name of your cause, is right or even approved by your cause.  


That, and by all rights, the only thing with the right to eradicate the entire human race is God, and any human considering that action is showing a great deal of hubris, and are stepping on His toes... that's a major no-no.  The last major entity to do that was Lucifer and look what happened to him.


Of course, that's going on the assumption that this is all true and that you're not taking everyone for some kind of leg-pulling ride.

 

[Jakk Bey]

I wish that there had been someone in a position to catch this a bit sooner is all.  A teacher.  An instructor.  Heck, a minister who had some shred of integrity for that matter.  It sounds a lot like our boy has been taken advantage of, and made to feel powerless for a long while.  Coupled with a case of Short Man Syndrome--of which I know nothing of, because I only started bouncing for practical reasons, of course*--it boils down to a fella who could do with a few therapy sessions.  The sex thing, the religion thing, the under-the-table-job thing from his mother, all point towards a family life that was...special enough to do some damage.


To make the decision easier for our boy, I'll share.  


My family life was hardly ideal.  There was a fair amount of physical abuse.  A lot of alone time.  It did a number on me for a long while.  Spent time running with a very bad crowd, and if I hadn't gotten shot at when I was 15 on a delivery of some questionable items for a friend, I probably would have wound up in a far different place than I'm at now.  


I got lucky though.  I laid my father out in the kitchen, much like he had done to his own father, and we both came to realization that if we stayed in the same house, one of us was going to get killed--and my Drill Instructor father trained me a bit too well early on to make it shoe in for him--so I moved out, moved to Maine to bunk at my Aunt Gail's.


This probably saved my life.  Gentle. Nurturing.  She helped undo some of the damage, and gave me enough time to sort out a good number of things.  I had an excellent role model in my Uncle Brian for what a man ought to be,  and could be if they were decent and hardworking.  


This being said, I dealt with a fair amount of baggage.  Therapy and getting on Imipramine for panic attacks--and more importantly  talking to a good counselor on what these attacks were, instead of building up reasons for being scared witless out of the blue, because that's what you do when you have panic attacks, you find reasons, and the connections can be tenuous and build into a whole line of delusions--helped get me on a path where I could get my head on straight.  A series of good people in my life helped out as well.   A couple of great bosses who took me under their wings, good teachers, and good friends who stood by me, and who I treasure all helped me get through some very dark days.


I share this not to get any kind of sympathy, because we all have our baggage, and our own personal tragedies and traumas.  Some folks have a better support network than others, and some folks have a network of folks completely unsuited to the task, and it sounds as if EM's situation is considerably brightened by Ker'ion's involvement, despite the baggage laden onto him by his mother.


I know that it's cliched to blame the 'rents, but if something is broken, you usually go to who had it last...


I think that our boy could do with a little couch time.  And possibly with some medication as well.  I think that he recognizes that there are some funky things going on, and is scared witless in how to change--and again, I give big props to Ker'ion and his wife for inviting this soul into their home.  You are in a position to do some real good, and while it's easy to point fingers and get angry with folks when they get to be asshats, it's sometimes better to examine why--and it sounds a lot like a case where EM is dealing with a lot of odd things from his upbringing--and that's not entirely his fault.  It can take a lot of years to sort that kind of thing out.  I just hope that he can take the first steps, because EM sounds like he's been hurt pretty badly in the past, and a lot of the behavior and themes in some of his posts come out of a primal means to deal with that kind of pain.


And if he hasn't had a lot of support, especially at home, getting help may not have even occurred to him.  


Ker'ion--I hope that EM takes the above post in the light that it's meant, and as his housemate, I am being unfair perhaps in asking you to assist in this.  It is by no means a condemnation, but rather a chance to open up some doors for him, and it sounds as if he's been running in a lot of circles, trying to get away from some nastieness in his past, and this might be an opportunity to try something new, something that won't wind up getting him caught in the same cycle.  I don't know his mother, nor a lot of the details of his situation, but if I'd been teaching in his district, and come across even a few of the signs that I've read in his posts, I'd have scheduled something.  


I'm not in an official position with our boy, by any means, but it trips a lot of the same triggers, and all I can do is invite him to take some steps that might lead to a happier him.  Because I have been in similar straits.  It's not fun country he's wandering in, and having been in that kind of Injun Country, I hate to see anyone else there as well.


*He said with a tongue firmly planted in cheek...