Problem Players

[DarkProphet]

#1 we are playing a game that is a alteration of the old world of darkness I am playing a mage
#2 He took node not manse

These two points are pretty much irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  


did you work real hard at being dense or is it natural to you


#1 Manses don't exsist in the WoD remeber


#2 When I was looting the body of the fallen Vampire and found a rock with a magical aura was when I became aware of there being a few manses left in the world I had no reason to ask thinking to ask if I can take a manses is like wanting to take Arcane on a solar char

From what I've gathered, the game is a mix of WoD and Exalted.  As such, even if manses are rare, there'd be no reason to assume that manse was off-limits.


Either way, the specifics aren't really important.  Manse was obviously a legal background to purchase at character creation, you could have purchased it at character creation, but neglected to check with your ST.  That's a failure on your part, not your ST.  (unless he never mentioned that he was bringing aspects of Exalted into the game)... but if you started out knowing that it was a combo of WoD and Exalted and if the ST didn't outright say that manse was off-limits, it's not the ST's fault, nor the fault of the new-comer that you just assumed that you couldn't purchase manse.... but again, specifics aren't important.


The important bits are that the new-comer purchased manse, or node or whatever the hell it was, legally.  It's higher level than the one you had to fight for, but so what?  He bought his at character creation, which is perfectly legal, tossing a fit because 1) it's more powerful than what you have, and 2) you didn't think to check if that background was purchasable at char. creation is pathetic and absurdly childish.


As for the giving the new-comer 1/2 the xp that you had... it's not your place to complain about that, it's not your game.  Your ST obviously considers giving new-comers xp to catch up some is fair (and almost everyone else agrees to one degree or another) and it is fair.  It may not be the way that you'd run the game, but guess what cap'n?  You're not running the game.  You may think that not giving the new-comers any xp to help them catch up (which basically amounts to punishing them for coming in late... which could have been due to circumstances beyond their control) is fair, but really that just ensures that they'll always be outmatched and will be all but useless to the game... crippling a player that way will quite often make the game less fun for the player in question... but from what I've seen EM doesn't appear to take into consideration whether or not the other people involved in the game are having a fun time and enjoy the game.  


You're having such a hard time accepting that your ST is handling the late-comer situation so drastically different than how you'd handle it... then just accept that it's not your game, it's your ST's game, he'll run it how he sees fit.  If you can't accept someone running a game differently than you would, then you shouldn't be playing in other people's games.  If you're so massively narrow-minded that you get pissed off when the game doesn't go how you want it to, or the house rules (or any rule, for that matter) doesn't fit with how you, as a non-ST, believe it should be, then you should probably take a vacation from playing games until you can learn to behave in a mature, rational manner.


and it's rather laughable that you, the one tossing a temper tantrum over the ST trying to help balance the game and ensuring that the new guy wont be so severely outclassed... (and really, 50% the total xp isn't that much of a deal and it in now way undermines the xp system) and allowing them to purchase something legally during character creation... call anyone childish.


It's a game, it's about fun for *everyone involved* not just individual players.  What the ST did here was an attempt to make the game more enjoyable for everyone involved, the starting xp to the new-comer in no way hinders other characters who've been in play for a while and in no way undermines or lessens the entire XP system... perhaps if the ST gave the new guy more xp than everyone else had it would... but it was 50%, that's still a sizeable gap, they'll still be playing catch up and will always be behind the others advancement-wise... and besides, the character didn't just pop into existance or exalt with that xp there, they would have been around for a while, in-character, and as such that character (in-game) would have had to go through just as much trouble and adventuring to get that xp than the current characters... just all that gets included in the write-up...


as for the level 5 character creation purchase... that was a completely legal purchase of a background (whatever it was, manse, node, whatever) that was available for purchase since the beginning and as such, all other characters could have purchased it at creation, if they didn't then they have no reason to be upset or angry when another character buys it at character creation.  That'd be like a player who didn't purchase artifact at creation, and found one during play, getting pissed off when another player purhcased artifact during their own character creation... and that would be just plain ridiculus.  It seems that EM's pissed that he had to fight for his manse and/or wasn't aware that he could purchase manse (or whatever the hell background is that's got his panties into a twist) and this new guy bought a, more powerful, one at creation... legally.  The character didn't just get the thing as easy as blinking, anything level 5 isn't easily gained, and no doubt it was all included in a write-up... so just because it didn't happen during play, doesn't mean it wasn't difficult to obtain.


Of course, the players could have never been informed that there were aspects of Exalted in the WoD game, but it appears that the players knew that it was some kind of a mix, so they should have asked if they could purchase whatever backgrounds (or, intelligently, assume that any background that isn't off-limits via ST house-rule, or off-limits via character-type).  


Looking over this thread, I thank the Goddess that all the players I've ever had aren't narrow-minded, selfish, tantrum-tossing whiners.  They're actually intelligent, rational, mature adults or near-adults who understand that I, as ST, may not handle things as they would, but that it's nothing to get upset about, definitely nothing to get pissed about.  Their own enjoyment isn't the only thing they consider, they actually want everyone to enjoy the game.

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

What I've always done for new players is just give out the baseline xp and don't give out the bonuses the other PC's have already gotten. I think this amounts to about 95% of the xp the other players have. As someone else said, I too, have to take players who've never done exalted before, so have a hard enough time grasping the capabilities of their characters... So, for that reason I don't see the need to deny them XP.

 

[Persell]

#1 Manses don't exsist in the WoD remeber
#2 When I was looting the body of the fallen Vampire and found a rock with a magical aura was when I became aware of there being a few manses left in the world I had no reason to ask thinking to ask if I can take a manses is like wanting to take Arcane on a solar char

you still dont get the fact that, the st can do whatever he wants its his game!

 

[Persell]

#1 Manses don't exsist in the WoD remeber
#2 When I was looting the body of the fallen Vampire and found a rock with a magical aura was when I became aware of there being a few manses left in the world I had no reason to ask thinking to ask if I can take a manses is like wanting to take Arcane on a solar char

you still dont get the fact that, the st can do whatever he wants its his game!

I dont even think that that's the main point. If he can only define his character by what he doesn't have rather than what he does have and can only be happy by being on top he needs to reevaluate his priorities as a player. Roleplaying isn't a pissing tournament.


edit to add;


...at least it shouldn't be. Unfortunately certain types of player tend to make it one.

 

[Flagg]

...at least it shouldn't be. Unfortunately certain types of player tend to make it one.

I think that type of player tends to be a person who feels inadequate in real life.


-S

 

[Guest]

HE didn't tell me that there was anything from exalted in the game the world is a mixture of the WoD, Harry Potter, Meridth Gentry, and Anita Blake, and evadently Exalted


The last one was never mentioned maybe I didn't make that clear but I thought I did so stop telling me I'm in the wrong

 

[Ker'ion]

Only mentioned it half a dozen times or so... :roll:

 

[Jakk Bey]

We're just wondering why you're making an issue of it?


If Ker'ion is your friend, despite some issues you have with his lifestyle and choices, then why are you sandbagging his game?


That's the issue here.  Are you a part of this game? Then you are a part of the process.  It's not about 'winning' or 'losing' or who has better toys, it's about the unfolding story, and this is obviously getting in the way of the story unfolding.


How about this: trust your boy to tell a good story.  Let him trust you to be a part of that story.


You've got to be a participant, but there are other folks there as well, who will play roles that aren't the same as yours.  That's fine. That's how you get a bunch of different layers to story.  


Instead of looking on this as a way "You got screwed" you have an opportunity, one that this new character has opened up.  With the addition of this Manse, you now have added story potential, and no responsibility neccessarily to maintain the site.  Congrats. You have a powerful ally.  If you MUST put it in context with your character, then you have gained something with the addition of that character--back up. And if you don't bitch it up, you have someone who can cover your ass, and open up new opportunities.


Let the story play out, and let the tale unfold. You might find that you will have a lot more fun with the folks at the table, rather than just using them as convienent shields.


What folks are asking, is for you to step up and be a better player.  A good player is about the story.  That might mean the character suffers, that might be the best thing for the story.  The player and the character are seperate entities.


What is good for the character, might not be the right thing for the story.  Sometimes its better for the drama of a tale for a character to suffer, make some tragic mistakes, allow the drama to unfold.  Sometimes it makes the end reward even greater, because the character goes through hell and back.  


One of the best moments in one of my games, was an AEon game, where a trio from the secondary cast meet up with Divas Mal's protege.  The Marines FUBARed the alien ship he had commanded, killed a good number of his troops, and managed to trigger the ship's FTL drive to jump them a loooong ways away from their target.  This trio made the sacrifice to hold back the hordes of aliens so that the rest of the characters could escape, and wound up sitting on the outer hull, as the ship winked into existance hundreds of light years away from home and hearth.


Then Mal's protege shows up, and they not only don't shrink from his Aberrant ass, they decide to die laughing and shooting, because no matter what the bastiche could do to them, they knew that they'd stopped the Aberrant threat--the characters died, and died well, but the cause they served won.  That's a great moment.


And, yes, I gave those players some bonus points on their next characters for great play.


It's not about the points or the goodies. It's about what you do with them. It's about the play.  You can have characters that are widely disporportionate in stats and still get a great game from them. You just have to play to their strengths.  Why not let this new character get that chance before crying "foul"? Why not see what this new character brings to the Story?

 

[Silence In Daylight]

HE didn't tell me that there was anything from exalted in the game the world is a mixture of the WoD, Harry Potter, Meridth Gentry, and Anita Blake, and evadently Exalted
The last one was never mentioned maybe I didn't make that clear but I thought I did so stop telling me I'm in the wrong

 Did you ask?


 If you're claiming that Ker'ion deliberately hid the fact that components of Exalted were available in the campaign, then you and your roommate have bigger issues. If, however, you assumed that you knew everything already, and didn't bother to ask...

 

[Ker'ion]

If Ker'ion is your friend, despite some issues you have with his lifestyle and choices, then why are you sandbagging his game?
That's the issue here.  Are you a part of this game? Then you are a part of the process.  It's not about 'winning' or 'losing' or who has better toys, it's about the unfolding story, and this is obviously getting in the way of the story unfolding.

EM believes that control is the only thing that matters in a game, including trying to force the GM to run the course of the game in the direction he wants to, not letting the other players make choices that would send it in a direction they prefer.


And EM's rule on existance in all areas is that if he can't win, then he looses.  If it is a tie for first, then noone wins.  And he never looses.


Or at least he thinks he never looses.  This is why he will not concede anything in an argument. :roll:

 

[DarkProphet]

EM believes that control is the only thing that matters in a game, including trying to force the GM to run the course of the game in the direction he wants to, not letting the other players make choices that would send it in a direction they prefer.


And EM's rule on existance in all areas is that if he can't win, then he looses.  If it is a tie for first, then noone wins.  And he never looses.


Or at least he thinks he never looses.  This is why he will not concede anything in an argument. :roll:

Then why on Earth do you let him into your games?  He doesn't seem like the kind that can play nice with the other children, or one that tosses a tantrum when things don't go his way.  


Or is this kind of behavior something rare?  If he can't realize and accept that these kinds of games are about group as a whole, not individual players and what they want to happen for their character alone... then he really shouldn't be playing the game.  Trying to force the ST to change his mind when you don't like his decisions, rulings or rules by getting pissed off and tossing a fit is stupid and childish.


If you can't deal with the game being run differently than you'd run it, and you get pissed when things don't go exactly as you want it, then either stop playing until you can understand what these games are about, or stop playing altogether... or just ST on your own and don't be a player... since you apparently can't deal with other ST's in a rational, intelligent manner.  Although players who behave like that probably aren't very good ST's.

 

[Kajata]

I've never come across anything this bad in my games, but we've had twinges here and there.  For instance my dawn caste measures EVERYTHING by how many people he can kill or how many dice are in his accuracy pool.  He's trying to restrain it of late but he still has his moments.  But I keep him around because from time to time he can play quite well, and he's my friend.  And that's very important.


If you guys are friends, just accept it and move on.  I mean, I don't agree with a lot of issues with a lot of my players, but in the end it's my game, and so we end up doing things my way, and I take advice from them.  If it was their game, I'd still say what I think, but in the end, they'd be the ST.  If you've decided to play this game; whether it's WoD or Exalted (and I happen to know that both use much the same storyteller system) then the ST is the final say.  It is an autocracy.  Think of the ST as the King and the players are his advisors.  The ST needs to be strong enough to know what he wants to do or where he wants to go, but he also needs to be smart enough to take advice from his players when he knows they know what they're talking about.  If you think the way the game is run sucks, then I'd say you have 3 main options.


1) Shut up about it.  The ST is your friend, and in the end you're all their just to have fun.  Yes, it can be bloody irritating when you feel cheated because said new player is better than you at something and... wait, he's only just started!  But you're all friends in the game, and if you're not, then that's what the game is about, becoming friends and having a laugh.  God knows I'd like my game to be different, but I don't think that it's every going to change to how I'd like it to be, so I just let it go, and we still get together each sunday.  Do you know why?  Because we have a great time!


2) Keep quiet for now and ask if you can have a stint STing later.  Maybe you don't like how he runs things, so step up into his shoes and see how it feels.  Firstly, you'll get things your way for a while at least.  Secondly, if you believe he's not STing right, then you do it the right way and see if that works.  Being ST is hard.  You have to balance a good story, fair characters and most importantly your friends feelings.


3) Just leave the game.  If you're both friends and you feel that your differences are irreconcilable (sp? ) then leave for the sake of the friendship.  There's no point letting something like a good friendship fall apart over a game.  After all, that's all it is.


In the end, I feel the cardinal, big, shiny, golden, megabucks, glowing oracle of all rules in Exalted is HAVE FUN.  If you're not having fun, discuss your options with the players and ST.  See what you can do, but don't make what could be an enjoyable experience hell for everyone else.

 

[Ker'ion]

Due to various factors, my player base is very limited, including a total of 6 people at the moment.


He is the most avid gamer I know, so I run game for him to reduce the boredom of my life.

 

[Flagg]

Then why on Earth do you let him into your games?

Because they live together, in what seems to be a fairly dysfunctional situation.


-S

 

[Kajata]

Well, 5 players is enough for a game, hell, 3 is really, so if he wants to leave I wouldn't ruin your game in order to make him stay.  And failing everything else, just run an online game.  I've run one or two in my time and I have to say they're just as good, if not better than the IRL ones, as they tend to reduce the amount of stuttering involved when description rears its ugly head !

 

[Ker'ion]

Disfunctional junction!!

 

[Ker'ion]

One player is very picky about when she plays (My wife).


One player has little time to play.


One players is new (first game ever).


One player hasn't played in three years, and it was a different setup.


And the last one is a 13 year old neighbor kid that is indecisive about whether or not he's gaming at that time, since, being male, he's attempting to cure his virginity problem.

 

[Flagg]

And the last one is a 13 year old neighbor kid that is indecisive about whether or not he's gaming at that time' date=' since, being male, he's attempting to cure his virginity problem.[/quote']
I think either you, your wife, or EM should deflower the boy -- for the sake of the game!


-S

 

[DarkProphet]

Due to various factors, my player base is very limited, including a total of 6 people at the moment.
He is the most avid gamer I know, so I run game for him to reduce the boredom of my life.

pshaw, 6 is great.  I live on/near the largest college campus in Maine (don't know the number of people here, though) and am the president of the University Gamers' Guild (a student organization for students who enjoy gaming of all kinds) and have contacts with a great many role players... and yet only 3 people to play exalted with.


of course... I had had around 8 people say "I'm interested in playing Exalted" and when I put a post up saying: "ok, we'll meet to go over the basics of the game, character types, my house rules, character creation etc etc etc... the meeting is in this building, this room, from this time to this time..." and out of all those people... 1 person said he couldn't make it because he was going to be out of town, one guy said he was going to be late, a 3rd said he had too many other games going on and couldn't play.... and no one else said anything, although they read the message.


and the only person to show up was the guy who said he was going to be late.


The 2nd meeting... the late guy showed up (late again, but he told me in advance) and the one who was out of town... nobody else... and nobody else has said anything, given no reasons or anything... they said "I'm really interested" and then never bothered to show up or even give me an excuse.


And now the guy who was late those times has stopped coming, although he supposedly has written a history for his character and says it's cool... he hasn't shown up for 2 games... the other guy has his character made, has run his prelude and actually begun actual sessions... and thankfully he's brought his roommate in to play.


so now I have 2 players, possibly 3 if the late-guy actually starts coming to games.


so count yourself lucky with 6 players  


Of course, none of my players, past or present, have shown any kind of irrational, childish or selfish behavior as one of yours has, so I may not have many players, but they're all good players.

 

[Guest]

He runs a game cause if he dosn't I won't either and then he dosn't have a game to play if I for some reason run a game with out one to play my need to kill things takes over and suddenly my game is over because I kill all the chars hense I play his games

 

[DarkProphet]

He runs a game cause if he dosn't I won't either and then he dosn't have a game to play if I for some reason run a game with out one to play my need to kill things takes over and suddenly my game is over because I kill all the chars hense I play his games

is it just me, or is that almost completely incoherent?  It's called punctuation and complete, structured and seperate sentences... you should really look into using them.


so you wont run a game if he doesn't? and if you run a game without one to play in you kill off the characters because your "need" to kill things takes control of you?   That's pathetic, and incredibly stupid... that's the kind of thing that I'd expect to hear from someone who's criminally insane... or four.


you are, without a doubt, one of the worste storytellers, players and people i've ever heard of.  If you have such poor self control that if you can't play a game you'll kill off your players for the sheer personal pleasure of it, then you should stay well away from storytelling... and you should probably stay away from playing as well... it's clear that you're just a sad, angry little man and need some professional help.


everything he says just makes me so very happy that none of my players are even remotely like him.

 

[Guest]

we have already discussed my Dyslexia on a diferent thread.... we have also discussed that I am crimaly insane on another... or it could have been the same one I don't remeber, dose anyone remember what thread or threads that was

 

[Jakk Bey]

EM--You know they have medication and treatments for both of those things, right?  And as a student, you qualify pretty damn easy.


Just a thought. It could make you a happier and better adjusted you.  And perhaps less likely to be strangled in your sleep...

 

[Ker'ion]

I think either you, your wife, or EM should deflower the boy -- for the sake of the game!
-S

Um.....


:|


NO!!


I am not, however, opposed to finding him someone to deal with his problem.  However, I don't know of any girls his age that I know well enough to ask such a thing.

EM--You know they have medication and treatments for both of those things' date=' right?  And as a student, you qualify pretty damn easy.[/quote']
:shock:


Where did you get the idea that EM is a student.  He is 27, lives in my house, and works for his mom under the table.

 

[Seiraryu]

we have already discussed my Dyslexia on a diferent thread.... we have also discussed that I am crimaly insane on another... or it could have been the same one I don't remeber' date=' dose anyone remember what thread or threads that was[/quote']
I'll just tell you what I told you before:  dyslexia really isn't that much of an excuse.  Your possess Microsoft Word, probably.  Run a spellcheck before posting.  It's not that hard.