Problem Players

[Ker'ion]

:roll:  :shock: How would you deal with a problem player who attempts to use skewed logic to force the GM to give him first call on all of the new items and starts an argument anytime the other players gain more power than him, trying to use the rules to augment his character, while restricting the other players (unfortunately, his comprehension of the Exalted Rules is beyond mine, since he own most of the books, and I have to borrow them to run game).  He is the same way with the WoD setting, but it seems to be a universal thing for him. :shock:  :roll:

 

[The Mad hatter]

if your Gm'ing then change things on the fly


the storyteller system is designed with innherent flexablity to allow you to alter things to suit your tastes, and since it is your game your perfectly able to restict things as you see fit, citing the Golden Rule of the Storyteller also the rules themselfs while having loopholes can be used agenst him, he wants to weild some new spiffy artfact make him work his ass off for it, wants to learn some new spell? rule that the Silurean School never codfied it and only a few sorcerers have it and none of them like visitors, think their new charm is bad ass? rule that it takes extra time and xp to make it, or give the bad guys charms that can nullfy their charm


its your game, dont let one player spoil it, and if they try, crush them like the insect they are.

 

[Dulio Giovanni]

How to Deal with said player:


1. Get Limewire and just download the Pdf. copies of the books free for yourself and read up. It's really a bit of you fault for running a game and not having superrior command of the rules anyhow. Personally I try to look for every concievable loophole and game imbalance and try to plug it before any damage gets done in the first place.


2. Take the player aside and tell him up front about the problem. A straight up talk works wonders on most cases. Input from other players is good as it would show that other concur with your assement and its not just you with the problem.


3. If he persists in his ways either subtlely stack the game against him or flat out dismiss him from the gaming table with the threat of a .45 cal( or a trusty board and nail) in the face if hes should return. Lol.


4. For more tips on how to handle players, Vampire Storyteller's guide is very hepful as it details a full section on these kind of people and how to fix said problems.

 

[Jakk Bey]

I suppose telling him to grow the fuck up is right out of the question?


There is the tried and true fallback position of: My table, my game, the door is up for grabs.


I like it better than "Because I said so." Though that works just fine with my 4 year old, so that's up to you.


It boils down to someone who feels thwarted, possibly insiginificant in RL, and sublimates a lot into the game.  While there is a delicious irony in the dreams of hoisting such a player on their own petard as TMH suggests, it will possibly only exacerbate the problem, rather than solve it.  Might be good for a laugh or two, but I'm thinking that if this person is putting so much into being a Big Dog in a game, and then have that yanked out from under them, it's going to lead to an ugly scene and some hurt feelings.


And that will only make things worse later on.


I tailor all goodies to the characters at the table. Nobody just gets random crap, ever.  If it's out there, it's there for a reason.  Tailoring goodies to the PC's helps curb the "Ooooh Me!" mentality. Making sure that everyone has their moments to shine, and tailoring those encounters and tasks specifically to those characters helps end the "I search the room too" bit as well.  


Taking him aside and explaining to him, in nicer terms than I'm going to use here might also be in order.  


Essentially you need to tell him that he is NOT his character. He is playing a game, with other people, and he needs either to grow the fuck up,  or pick up a copy of KOTOR or Baldur's Gate, because really that's what he's looking for, as opposed to a social activity with grown people.  Tell him he's being disruptive, and if you actually do like the prick, tell him that, but be clear that he is keeping you from getting your groove on, and it's hurting the game.  The whole limiting other players crap has got to go.  The constant rules whining has got to go. And if those things don't go, he does.


This isn't uncommon with folks who RP. It comes in cycles.  Twinking and munchkinizing happens. In fact, a lot of twinks grow up into decent players if they get a little support and love.  But part of that process is getting them to acknowledge when they need to tone it the hell down, and let other people have the spotlight. That it's a group activity, not all for them.


The thing is--they're excited. That's the motivation. They want to see what happens next, they want to be the hero, they want the attention, and it combines into a really annoying behavior set.  If you like this asshat, then you need to be clear, and precise.  Set some boundaries, and don't use in game goodies as your motivator--it forces the plot into odd places.  Instead, make it clear that they start behaving like an adult, or they can pack up their shit and not scuff the door with their ass print on the way out.

 

[Obsidian Soul]

Have to agree with Jakk.  While I'm not above a screaming fit if an ST changes a rule without warning or does favor one player over the others, in general what the ST says is what goes.  Quite frankly, unless he is playing a DB in a Solar game (in which he should be geeting one or two extra XP a session just for keeping up) he shouldn't be worried about power levels.  After all, cannonically the players get four XP a session, five if they did something really awesome, and an additional three to five at the end of a story, so their cannot be that much difference in power progression.  As for loot, that's what paper-rock-scissors is for.

 

[Persell]

i have to agree with Jakk too. if the person is new to RP'ing, then he's probably gonna be the guy with flaws to boost his stats with freebies, the guy with all teh physicall stats at 5, master at every form of combat, and has no social interaction.i know, i was like that, and most of my friends were, except one. it doesnt matter that this guy knows more than you. after all, it says in the core book that the rules set in the book are not concrete, they are "guide lines" for you to follow. you dont have to read every supplement, caste book, and setting book. it is all up to you. i've seen a player question the ST at every corner, so when he got fed up, he just killed the character off, and the game ran much more smoothly and quicker with out that one. you are st, you are the one who is in control, if the guy is being so selfish, give him some cursed items and dont say anything about it. but all you really have to do, is do what these guys said. pull him aside, and nicely or any way you want to, tell him to stop being the power hog, and to grow up. he doesnt have to have every damn item you come by, and if its a circle, he doesnt have to be more powerful than everyone else, he can be the warrior, and he's backed up by the sorcerer. he doesnt have to play ever concept to be powerful.

 

[Ker'ion]

Yeah, but to this prick, the golden rule doesen't exist, and if anyone even tries to use it, he pitches a bigger fit.

 

[Persell]

Yeah' date=' but to this prick, the golden rule doesen't exist, and if anyone even tries to use it, he pitches a bigger fit.[/quote']
im not trying to be an ass when i say this, but what is he doing in your game then? this dude, obviously, doesnt know how to play a game. if he gives you crap, tell him to get the hell out of the game. how old is this dude?

 

[Hand of Destiny]

Have you tried talking it over with him honestly, explaining how his behaviour is ruining the game?  Try that or if he's still an asshole buy yourself some books of your own and cut him loose.

 

[The Mad hatter]

heck if you cant find the books and dont have a card or anything for somthing like amazon or drive though id share my pdfs if it ment helping with a problem player like that,


though i still like tourchering them untill they behave or leave... makes good examples for what happens when you act like a ass for the rest of my group

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Ker'ion, you haven't said what the other players think of the jackass.


 If they're as torqued off as you, then Jakk's advice is the way to go--tell him nicely that he's being an ass, and he needs to shape up or shut up, and if he declines, show him the door.


 The problem gets nasty if he has supporters among the other players, who either can tolerate his antics, actually enjoy seeing your frustration, are riding the same book-gravy train that you're on, or something else.


 It's very easy for all of us to tell you what you should be doing in theory; after all, we don't have to deal with the fallout.


 When you're making your decision, try to 'game out' the consequences of each potential action you could take. Whatever decision you make, be sure that you can accept the worst reasonable possibility (obsessing about your player showing up with a pistol and blood in his eye the week after your group tossed him out is probably not necessary), and act on it.


 Good luck.

 

[Ker'ion]

The fallout is fairly bad:


He's become so adamant about his innocence that he's been banned from game, the PS2 (self imposed, oddly), and the computer until he cedes at least mutual fault in the disagreement.


Sorry to anyone wanting to continue any discussion with EM.


He said he had too much conviction to cede anything.

 

[Kajata]

Who banned him? :S  I mean, how do you ban him from going on the computer or going into game? *is confused*

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

Well, you know, it's probably for the best. If he's self imposing stuff on himself, it's not your problem. In all honesty, I think that him not in the game is a good thing.


He clearly needs to grow up a bit.

 

[wordman]

He's become so adamant about his innocence that he's been banned from game' date=' the PS2 (self imposed, oddly), and the computer until he cedes at least mutual fault in the disagreement.[/quote']
I'm not going to pretend that I understand that (there appears to be more going on in terms on relations, etc. that we haven't been told).


In any case, usually this sort of thing comes down to a choice between burning a friendship or burning a game. Generally, my advice in this case is to actually burn the friendship. "Friends" like that eventually fuck you.


Anyway, in this case, there may be some special circumstances, and maybe this board can help. Suppose this board acts as a jury of sorts. If this guy feels "innocent", let him (and you) post your points of view, and we'll tell you who's right.

 

[Jakk Bey]

So, he's pouting.


Again, tell him to grow the fuck up.  I'm assuming that you are roomies--in school or in an apartment?  Either way, it sucks when one of your room mates turns into a prick over trifling things like a game of pretend among adults...but if that's the case, then he's got some other issues to work on, besides being a selfish asshat in said game of pretend.


Get your own books.  Treat him like you normally would, but I'd stick to my guns and keep him the fuck away from your table.  A friend wouldn't be making these kinds of waves in your game.  A friend would be there to help you along, to be a part of the thing.  


Letting him find another group, and them booting him for the same asshattery might be worth it to learn him up.


That, or sending him over to check out somethingpositive.net.  Send him to the archives to read the saga of Mike, a munchkin asshat extraordinaire who learns a few lessons over the years.


It sucks watching a friend be hoist to their own petard, but sometimes you have to let them work this shit out.  And it sucks when they realize that they've been an asshat, for a long while, but that is neccessary for growth.


I hope that EM is on the cusp of learning some important shit.  From his posts, he's desperately in need of break-through.  Much anger in this one...

 

[Dulio Giovanni]

I agree with Wordman once again that if this dude really thinks he's right and wished to be vindicated have him raise his points here on the board and let us arbitrate for you other than that I'd personally stick the "My way or the highway." rule and kick him the hell out.

 

[Ker'ion]

Who banned him? :S  I mean, how do you ban him from going on the computer or going into game? *is confused*

It's my WoD game that's still running, as I have the WoD books, and my computer.  I just put up a password on the computer.

So, he's pouting.
Again, tell him to grow the fuck up.  I'm assuming that you are roomies--in school or in an apartment?


That, or sending him over to check out somethingpositive.net.

Actually, he's living as a roommate in my house.


Cool!!  I thought I was alone in my circle of contacts on reading that site.


He seems to be resilient to my persuasive efforts in the areas of diplomacy.  My wife's actually getting him to consider an agreement... don't know what she told him though.

 

[Persell]

thats good, hope everything works out seeing as how hes  your roomy and all.

 

[Ker'ion]

my wife fully intervened and forced an agreement.  I reset the game, and he shuts the fuck up and we both go back to normal.  Problem solved (for now).

 

[Guest]

He did what he always doswe shows favortism to whoever isn't me made a mistake at one point and gave me something then tried to go back on it and give it to the player he had been favoring thats why I blew up and said no, secondly I do use the golden rule do it all the time only my house rules are well known not inform the players when it comes up and derail there plans, I am of the simple opinion that if you have a house rule your players shoyuld be aware of the rule before it comes up not when it blows thier plans to hell.

 

[Ker'ion]

To EM, favoritism is making the other players even with him.  His specific rant was that I gave the other player a node after a few games that was a bit more powerful than his. (For multi platform players, think WoD + Rifts for the game world).


Because the other player hadn't been playing in game as long as he had, he was pissed that they got bonus XP to even out the characters so the new player wouldn't get his butt kicked in a fight that EM's char wouldn't have a problem with.


Add to this that I was trying to get him to relinquish property rights on the other person's node.


I wasn't innocent in the problem, I just believe he overstepped his limits on the scale of his malevolence.

 

[Guest]

yah I'd been playing for a few months and had 45xp so he gives them 45xp I had a couple of Items of power that I had erned and he just made them my bloody equal if that isn't a reason to be POed I don't know what is

 

[Persell]

yah I'd been playing for a few months and had 45xp so he gives them 45xp I had a couple of Items of power that I had erned and he just made them my bloody equal if that isn't a reason to be POed I don't know what is

he's just making the game a little more fair in the others terms, so you dont have everything. a reason to be PO'ed about is if he gave them more experience and/or higher powered items. making the game more fair for the others, setting them equal to your level, is not. even if you did play longer.

 

[wordman]

yah I'd been playing for a few months and had 45xp so he gives them 45xp I had a couple of Items of power that I had erned and he just made them my bloody equal if that isn't a reason to be POed I don't know what is

That isn't a reason to be PO'd. In my current game, I've had players join after others, and always give them xp commesurate with what the rest of the players have earned to keep the power level of the players similar. This prevents the rookies from getting needlesly dead, which fucks up the story.


BTW, am I the only one to whom this whole thread has seemed like a conversation with ELIZA?