New ST -- Some basic questions

[Kami-Kaze]

Hello! All the advice i've been given so far has helped a lot. However, some new questions i'd like to ask for clarification on have cropped up in our last session.


First: Coordinated attacks, does the penalty for them apply all at once or is this something applied after each person attacks (i.e. a -3 penalty per attacker with 3 attacks, does the target have -9 DV the whole time or -3 after every attack, like an extreme onslaught penalty)? Fairly sure it's all at once but would like to be sure.


Second: Blinding Spark Distraction (DB Charm) mentions that it applies it's penalty on the target's next action if it's an attack. I wasn't entirely sure if this meant 'the next thing you do' or 'the next time your turn comes up'? The specific case here was that it was applied to the first attack in a flurry that was successfully parried but wasn't sure when the penalty kicks in, i.e. on the next attack in that flurry or on his next action.


Third: I feel a little silly asking this, but move actions! How the hell do they work? Originally I believed you can take a move action on any tick (as long as you're not inactive or whatever) but noticed you cannot dash and move on the same tick, and since Dash isn't reflexive and so is only doable when your turn comes up it seems a little weird to imagine a person running along and every, say, three seconds or so suddenly bursting forwards and then jogging along again in the ticks between dashes.


Can someone clarify when exactly you are allowed to make move actions?


(Oh, and a minor one: As long as players are willing to make the effort to attune to artifacts of the wrong material, is there any reasonable way of giving them challenging opponents in combat without at the same time arming the players to the gills with powerful stuff when they win? Other than 'just throw like a million mooks at them' anyway.)


Edit: Oh, and is there a good way of dealing with simultaneous actions? At the moment i've pretty much just went with 'toss a coin/roll a die' to see who goes 'first'.

 

[Plague of Hats]

First: Coordinated attacks' date=' does the penalty for them apply all at once or is this something applied after each person attacks (i.e. a -3 penalty per attacker with 3 attacks, does the target have -9 DV the whole time or -3 after every attack, like an extreme onslaught penalty)? Fairly sure it's all at once but would like to be sure.[/quote']
The coordinated attack penalty is a flat penalty that applies against all participants' attacks. Each individual attacker's onslaught doesn't matter, except insofar as it is another penalty to the target's DV. So, if you had three guys participating in a coordinated attack that got three successes, the DV of the target would be at -3 against all of those guys' attacks, in addition to onslaught penalties and any other penalties.

Second: Blinding Spark Distraction (DB Charm) mentions that it applies it's penalty on the target's next action if it's an attack. I wasn't entirely sure if this meant 'the next thing you do' or 'the next time your turn comes up'? The specific case here was that it was applied to the first attack in a flurry that was successfully parried but wasn't sure when the penalty kicks in, i.e. on the next attack in that flurry or on his next action.

Check out the errata (linked in my signature). It's a counterattack that imposes an internal penalty for a while, and is not exclusive to attacks.

Third: I feel a little silly asking this, but move actions! How the hell do they work? Originally I believed you can take a move action on any tick (as long as you're not inactive or whatever) but noticed you cannot dash and move on the same tick, and since Dash isn't reflexive and so is only doable when your turn comes up it seems a little weird to imagine a person running along and every, say, three seconds or so suddenly bursting forwards and then jogging along again in the ticks between dashes.
Can someone clarify when exactly you are allowed to make move actions?

You can take a Move action on any tick. You can also move at Dashing speed on every tick, if you Dashed as part of your action tick. Think of the Dash action as an action you take that modifies your Moves until your next action tick.

(Oh, and a minor one: As long as players are willing to make the effort to attune to artifacts of the wrong material, is there any reasonable way of giving them challenging opponents in combat without at the same time arming the players to the gills with powerful stuff when they win? Other than 'just throw like a million mooks at them' anyway.)

Charm-created weapons, like Glorious Solar Saber and Spirit Weapons; or attacks made entirely out of Charms, such as Crypt Bolt Attack, Mind-Hand Manipulation or Dune-Burst Onslaught.


Aside from that, though, rethink why it matters in the first place. Would you allow a player character to start out by spending the points to have a grand goremaul? If so, why is it different that he loots one from the corpse of a fallen enemy? If it's something more special than that, like a grand goremaul that shatters mountains in a single blow, think about why it's okay for the opponent to have it and the player character to be deprived. Why did the player's foe need to have that in the first place? What are the consequences of giving it to him anyway?

Edit: Oh, and is there a good way of dealing with simultaneous actions? At the moment i've pretty much just went with 'toss a coin/roll a die' to see who goes 'first'.

In any case where it comes up, I go with "players first" if it's any old story, or "order of Wits and then Dexterity" if I want there to be a potential disadvantage for the players. Generally, though, since everyone's acting at the same time (even though certain things are implied to be resolved instantly instead of at the end of the tick), it all happens at once, so "first" doesn't actually matter.


To be brief: No, there really isn't any very good way to do it.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

First: Coordinated attacks, does the penalty for them apply all at once or is this something applied after each person attacks (i.e. a -3 penalty per attacker with 3 attacks, does the target have -9 DV the whole time or -3 after every attack, like an extreme onslaught penalty)? Fairly sure it's all at once but would like to be sure.

It is indeed all at once. Think of it like the Burly Brawl in The Matrix, Neo was facing a large number of Smiths simultaneously and having to act and react accordingly, Unfortunately, they were still managing to get the drop on him, due to the coordination of their attacks. The DV penalty is applied as a whole.

Second: Blinding Spark Distraction (DB Charm) mentions that it applies it's penalty on the target's next action if it's an attack. I wasn't entirely sure if this meant 'the next thing you do' or 'the next time your turn comes up'? The specific case here was that it was applied to the first attack in a flurry that was successfully parried but wasn't sure when the penalty kicks in' date=' i.e. on the next attack in that flurry or on his next action.[/quote']
Dunno.

Third: I feel a little silly asking this, but move actions! How the hell do they work? Originally I believed you can take a move action on any tick (as long as you're not inactive or whatever) but noticed you cannot dash and move on the same tick, and since Dash isn't reflexive and so is only doable when your turn comes up it seems a little weird to imagine a person running along and every, say, three seconds or so suddenly bursting forwards and then jogging along again in the ticks between dashes.
Can someone clarify when exactly you are allowed to make move actions?

As a Reflexive action, you can make a move action one any tick, moving your Dexterity in yards with no penalty to DV. A sprint is a sudden boost of speed and occurs every three ticks and applies a -2 penalty to DV. Thus, your character can be running throughout a combat, making attacks on the designated tick for their attack, but when you sprint you go all-out and it counts as an action and thus would be needed to be included in a Flurry action.

(Oh' date=' and a minor one: As long as players are willing to make the effort to attune to artifacts of the wrong material, is there any reasonable way of giving them challenging opponents in combat without at the same time arming the players to the gills with powerful stuff when they win? Other than 'just throw like a million mooks at them' anyway.)[/quote']
In my games, most opponents the PCs face regularly carry a Daiklave of some type and wear either light or medium artifact armour. If a PC Solar wants to load themself down with two Jade Daiklaves and a suit of Jade lammelar armour, that's entirely up to them. Only exceptionally powerful or unique NPCs carry anything better/different as required by storyline or threat level.

Edit: Oh' date=' and is there a good way of dealing with simultaneous actions? At the moment i've pretty much just went with 'toss a coin/roll a die' to see who goes 'first'.[/quote']
This one's easy. Page 141 of the main rule book addresses the issue of simultaneous actions. Both opponenets take their turns as normal, but the effects are applied at the end of the tick, i.e. two characters have decided to launch all-out attacks on one another, using their best attack Combos. Their attacks fall on the same tick so Player 1 rolls their attack, Player 2 uses what defences they have, be it DV or Charms within their Combo. However the defence is not sufficient to prevent a killing blow. Player 2's character is killed outright. This does not stop Player 2 completing their turn. They make their attack without dice loss due to the penalties inflicted by Player 1's attack and after DV and Charm defence, Player 1's character suffers some damage. Result: Character 2's blade scores a deep gash in Character 1's shoulder, but they were unable to avoid Character 1's axe as it slammed into their skull, pulverising their brains.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Captain Hesperus]

@PoH: You can Dash every tick? I thought it was a Speed 3 action, or has it been Errata'd?


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hrm, I think i've gotten different answers to first and third questions? My walnut-sized brain is immediately confused. :<

 

[Plague of Hats]

@PoH: You can Dash every tick? I thought it was a Speed 3 action, or has it been Errata'd?
Captain Hesperus

You take a Dash action on your action tick. For the rest of your action, you can move at your Dashing speed.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Another silly question but my players did bring this up: Shields just say they increase your DV by <x>. My assumption is this just means parry DV instead of both parry and dodge (I think it even says 'shields parry' in the flavour text before the individual shields) but i'd just like to check here for clarification.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

When in doubt, go with PoH. He's far more into the system than I am.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Shields increase either DV as written. They simply add directly to them. Note however that the Mobility penalty from a Shield lowers Dodge DV, and so in many cases its not really beneficial with a Dodge based character.

 

[wordman]

move actions! How the hell do they work? Originally I believed you can take a move action on any tick (as long as you're not inactive or whatever) but noticed you cannot dash and move on the same tick' date=' and since Dash isn't reflexive and so is only doable when your turn comes up it seems a little weird to imagine a person running along and every, say, three seconds or so suddenly bursting forwards and then jogging along again in the ticks between dashes.[/quote']
Just to make this more confusing, witness the argument created by adding a Dash action into a flurry. (This was one of the things that convinced me not to switch my main campaign over to second edition, though not the only thing.)

 

[Persell]

Dashing Pg 143 core book. "Sprint at speeds up to (Dex + 6 - current wound penalties - armor mobility penalty) yards per tick" It's a normal action (usually diceless unless terrain is treacherous). Note that you can not parry while dashing unless you stunt or use charms.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hello! Back again with some questions, having went through a few more sessions with my players. A little issue has come up:


They recently acquired their first manse, and the question came up of 'can you break a person's attunement to a manse'? (Unsurprisingly, it's because they're on a voyage of conquest across the Scavenger Lands and pretty much just want to take every manse they find along the way, even if it's one that already has one or more attuned owners.)


I can find a charm that allows you to deattune a person's artifact as a counterattack, but haven't seen anything regarding forcible Manse deattunement (although i'm guessing that if anything can do it, it's probably some kind of Geomancy)

 

[wordman]

They recently acquired their first manse' date=' and the question came up of 'can you break a person's attunement to a manse'?[/quote']
The 1E answer (and, I'm pretty sure, remains true in 2E) is yes, but only by altering the manse. That is, if you run into the person, you can't do anything to him to break attunement, but you can muck with the manse to make it "forget" about him.


This will almost certainly cause the manse's hearthstone(s) to shatter, wherever they are. They will regrow in the manse's hearth, assuming your tinkering didn't break it entirely.


Note that this has a corollary for a circle that "just want to take every manse they find along the way": if they don't guard the manse, don't count on keeping the hearthstone for long. (At the very least, the former owner of the hearthstone will know his or her or its attunement was severed and come looking.)


Another corollary is this: it is almost impossible to find an "abandoned" manse. You can assume that any manse that was abandoned would swiftly get occupied by at least a god. Some might also crack the manse to turn it back into a demesne, which they then turn into a sanctum or, if fair folk, a freehold. (Again, this is all 1E. The 2E version might be different, but I doubt it. Oadenol's Codex would know for sure, probably.)


One other thing: remember that hearthstones are useless without attunement to the manse. This makes them a very good way to buff opposition without those same buffs falling into the hands of the players. My group has buckets of hearthstones that are totally useless to them (though they find odd uses for them anyway).


Oh, also... mucking with manses has a tendency to make them explode. But I'm sure your circle will do fine....

 

[DasDom]

do you need to attune Hearthstones to use them to power magitech artifacts?

 

[wordman]

do you need to attune Hearthstones to use them to power magitech artifacts?

I'm not sure there is a canonical answer to this. Either way, I've always ruled "no". This allows captured hearthstones to power tech. On the other hand, there are ways to track the connection between manse and hearthstone, so this is not always a wise idea. (This tracking, in fact, is the main reason I allow them as power sources; makes life more interesting for the players, and gives them a reason not to just stash the stones Elsewhere to avoid the tracking.)


In case it wasn't clear, I'm of the opinion that manses are one of the neatest ideas in the Exalted setting, and a case where the mechanics of them, while obscure in many cases, has direct effect on story, rather than just on other mechanics. That is, the way manses and hearthstones work incentivize players to have the characters (and NPCs) make in-game choices that can have a wide impact on the direction of the story.


As an example, this manse that the poster's circle captured.... What will they do to hold it? Will they even bother? If they don't, who will take the manse after them? If they do, how does this change their prior plans? All of that may matter to the campaign now, and none of it is really mechanical, but caused by some simple resource mechanics.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Actually, on that note, a question related to my last one that i'm rather hoping the answer is not going to be 'that's pretty much it':


The players are taking control of large swathes of Creation (or at least the plan is that, conquest and the like) by force, by diplomacy, by culture, etc.


My current plan, as they start in the Hundred Kingdoms, is to have them deal with a few interesting kingdoms and most of the rest just capitulate rather than try and resist their growing influence, just so it's not 'you are now facing generic kingdom #42, PREPARE FOR COMBAT' about twenty sessions down the line.


So, right now the way it's went is that they're using Influence and/or Backing to represent their Rule (free backgrounds we're using instead of XP-paid ones) which works well enough, but other backgrounds are a problem. For example, with the Mass Combat thing above, just how many troops should I let them bring to a fight? After all, once you control very large chunks of creation your ability to lead forces starts to approach ridiculous levels (especially when you're Solars and can just super-train pretty much anyone into a murdermachine) and whilst I can give story penalties to this ('but now other areas are undefended because you dragged like a hundred thousand men with you to murder everything!') it doesn't stop it being ridiculous (and absurd to try and play a game where dozens and dozens of units are in play at once).


Now, the problem is that i'm well aware of the presence of Mandate of Heaven. I'm also well aware that it has a fairly horrible reputation, so i'm hoping to avoid resorting to it. Is there anything anyone can recommend?


(And really this sort of thing is just 'tip of the iceberg' since it in theory allows them to sort of requisition more or less anything and should result in them being laden down with fairly absurd amounts of everything ever, at which point things are a little weird)

 

[wordman]

That's pretty much it.


Only kidding. There are alternatives to Mandate of Heaven, such as The Game of Kings and its predecessor Scroll of the Lands.


Or, just handle the mass and political combat using a different system entirely, like the one in Reign

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hello! I return once again with questions!


Things have been going reasonably well in my campaign, with the PCs about to deal with a <SecretsSecretsSecrets because I don't know if they know about this thread>! Good stuff.


However, a thought has arisen that I don't think i've asked yet and which is probably going to come up rather a lot: Gods! (oh boy oh boy oh boy)


Namely, just how often should gods really be coming up? Sentient ones, anyway. For example, are there sentient gods of individual houses? Or trees? How powerful should gods of entire cities be? Do smaller locations, such as towns, have their own gods? If so, how powerful are they? How much do people actually know about them and deal with them in day-to-day life? Heck, what do they actually get up to most of the time?


It's mainly issues of gods of cities/towns/villages i'm wondering about due to the theme of 'conquer everything' in my game that may cause this to come up.

 

[wordman]

Namely' date=' just how often should gods really be coming up?[/quote']
That is a very good way to phrase this question. Gods in Exalted are everywhere. But your question gets the important idea: "how often do they matter to me". Fortunately, this is mostly a matter of taste...

are there sentient gods of individual houses? Or trees?

Yes and yes. Pretty much everything has an "animating spirit". Bear in mind that Exalted doesn't have physics, really. Things work because the gods see to it that they do.

How powerful should gods of entire cities be? Do smaller locations' date=' such as towns, have their own gods? If so, how powerful are they?[/quote']
Power tends to be related to importance. For example, it is usually easier to think of most of the gods (particularly the least gods, such as the god of your fireplace, the god of the tree outside, etc.) as having responsibility, but no authority. They have to make do with what they have. Does that tree-god need some water for the tree? Better hope it rains.


Generally, more important concepts have more important and capable gods. And hierarchies in life tend to mirror hierarchies in the celestial world. For example, a village god has less power than the god of a nearby city, while they are both likely subordinates of the god of the nation containing them.

How much do people actually know about them and deal with them in day-to-day life?

All people know that the gods inhabit everything. The way "things are supposed to work" is that the gods do their jobs because that's what they were made to do. If people want to show gratitude to that god, they can offer prayers and sacrifices to them. These materialize as a sort of "currency" in heaven (quintessence), which is useful to gods. Many people offer sacrifices to all the gods in general, and the currency from these gets divvied up.


Many gods, however, cheat. From their point of view, the world is already broken (especially since the solars are no longer around, running society), and that makes their obligations somewhat... flexible. Combined with the quintessence economy, this creates an incentive for, well... "outside the box" thinking on behalf of the gods. Extortion, for example: "Well, village elder, as god of this river, I can tell you it would be a real shame if it were to flood your fields. Hopefully, the sacrifices and prayers your people will certainly give me will provide the strength I will need to prevent such an unfortunate event".


Two forces counter such behavior. Exalted, for one. Terrestrials, in particular, might be called on by, say, extorted villagers, to come lay a smackdown on a river god. Celestial auditing is the other force, where a "court system" of sorts can be used to punish gods that aren't doing what they are supposed to.


In any case, since power is often linked to importance, once a concept (like, say, a city) becomes important enough, its god has incentive to keep the concept important, and may have the power to advance the concept even more. This might be through a sort of "political lobbying" in heaven, negotiation with other gods, interaction with humans and so on.


In general, however, gods rarely have the power to act directly. Most of what they do must involve politics, or "butterfly effect" style tactics. For example, laying a curse on just the right person at just the right time might ultimately sway a major policy decision.


At very high levels of the celestial bureaucracy, however, gods are quite formidable. So, it is not uncommon that, when confronted with any situation, a lesser god's decision is going to be "complain to my superiors". If, for example, a high muckety-muck in the celestial bureaucracy in charge of the Scavenger Lands starts hearing a whole bunch of village gods complaining about the solars that rampaged through their village, he may take notice.


On the other hand, at least some of the village gods may be thrilled at their new solar overlords, so you never really know.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

So, since my players like fun solutions to worrying problems ...


Can any confirm how a Shadowland at night affects a Soulbreaker Orb? Or, for that matter, how it affects anything else?


In particular, what i'm looking for is if you set of a Soulbreaker inside a Shadowland at night, and it's blast radius would extend outside the Shadowland, does it extend into the Underworld or into Creation or both?


Similarly, if you, say, throw a rock or fire a bow out of a Shadowland at night, how does that work in terms of where it comes to rest?


Additionally, can those in the Underworld look into Shadowlands like someone in Creation would or are they something different there?


And, just for my own curiosity, what happens if someone in the Underworld and someone in Creation try to enter a Shadowland at the same time at the same point on it's edge? Telefrag?

 

[QuasiMortuus]

If you walk into a Shadowland during the day, stay put until nightfall, then you are in the Underworld. You can't get back to Creation unless you have some powerful spells, find a nifty portal or wait till the sun goes up. So, if you do anything in said Shadowland during the night it should only affect the Underworld. That is how I've understood it, at least.


So that about telefraging would be impossible - unless you count twilight/dawn to be some kind of hybrid state where Creation and the Underworld coexist for a few moments...

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Actually, it isn't 'powerful spells'. You can use Thaumaturgy to step through at the wrong time, in fact. Pierce Shadowland is a apprentice level ritual that requires no ranks in the Degree of Art of the Dead, and only a single dot in Occult. This is actually...some of the weakest and simplest magic that exists, that just about anyone can learn and use.

 

[QuasiMortuus]

Actually' date=' it isn't 'powerful spells'. You can use Thaumaturgy to step through at the wrong time, in fact. Pierce Shadowland is a apprentice level ritual that requires no ranks in the Degree of Art of the Dead, and only a single dot in Occult. This is actually...some of the weakest and simplest magic that exists, that just about anyone can learn and use.[/quote']
Huh, that was good to know.


It seems that I might need to read up on this, any book that has some good info on Thaumaturgy?

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Wait ... can't essence users just reflexively spend a mote to stay Creation-side when they walk out at night? I was sure I read it as being the case.


Additionally, my understanding (as poor as it may be) was that Shadowlands were places where the Underworld and Creation could overlap and co-exist.

 

[Plague of Hats]

Wait ... can't essence users just reflexively spend a mote to stay Creation-side when they walk out at night? I was sure I read it as being the case.

Yes, you can spend motes to eschew the normal behavior of crossing a shadowland's border. Not all thaumaturges are Essence users, though.

Additionally, my understanding (as poor as it may be) was that Shadowlands were places where the Underworld and Creation could overlap and co-exist.

This is correct. A shadowland is a single place that exists both in the Underworld and Creation at the same time, at all times. How you get there and where you go when you leave changes depending on whether it's night or day.