In the Dojo (O.O.C. Chat - Session Zero)

[Purr]

Whew! Off to bed. Have a good day, everybody! =)

 

[Sherwood]

Interesting. I'll have to take a long look at Ninjas and Superspies before I make any decisions regarding Moyo and my skills, so let me do just that. At the moment, I do like how my sheet has come out, but I might like things even better with NaSS tossed in to replace what I have.

 

[Kaerri]

Fixed! (This is the benefit of being married - we can discuss this together at home.) =)

Sorry. I see nothing fixed about this. But you've moved on in your problem-solving (which the personality quiz was meant to be part of) so I will move on too.

In fact, I see this idea critically. Didn't we just consider simplifying previous games? Kaerri needs a change. The others seemed to be fine, unless I missed something. Adding custom backgrounds/apprenticeships (for me, changing the available apprenticeships decisive changes the backgrounds) leads us straight down the path of unnecessary complexity we meant to avoid.

This. This, this, exactly this. All of this.

As always, how do you feel about it?

Honest answer, because I know you don't ask unless you want to hear.

How do I feel? I am frustrated with trying to shoehorn a character into a game she no longer appears to fit into. I feel like you are warping the rest of the game and asking all the other players to accept changes to character creation just because I have failed to come up with a concept that works in a system no one else is having problems with. And I am not OK with that. I have never wanted a game or a system to revolve around my whims. I have much more fun fitting into what's already going on. If everyone else is making it work and only one person can't make it work, clearly the problem is with that one person, not the whole system. I'd rather dump the character concept and start over with a blank slate, than you force everything to fit that one character.

Yes, Kaerri needs a change. And that change would be much less intrusive on everyone else if the change was on her side and not the game itself.

 

[Sherwood]

1a. Mutant Animals/Yokai have a Maximum Skill Program of -2 Skill Programs and -2 Secondary Skills (base Ninjas & Superspies really overdoes it with Skills. You'll see.).

Just to make sure I understand correctly, using the Private Eye as an example, they get the following skills:

Available Skill Programs: Character can take any two (2) from
among General Skill Programs and two (2) from Espionage
Programs, plus any two (2) from among Military Skill Programs
or Gizmoteer Skill Programs.
Secondary Skills: Select any eight (8).

By your new rules, this would reduce the six Skill Programs to just four and only six Secondary skills, correct? Which of the six Programs would be cut? Is it player choice, or do you make the choice?

 

[Purr]

By your new rules, this would reduce the six Skill Programs to just four and only six Secondary skills, correct?

Yep!

Which of the six Programs would be cut? Is it player choice, or do you make the choice?

3. After choosing an O.C.C., you decide which Skill Programs go and stay for your character.

(bold mine) You decide! Isn't that cool?

I feel like you are warping the rest of the game and asking all the other players to accept changes to character creation just because I have failed to come up with a concept that works in a system no one else is having problems with.

O.K.! Thanks for your honesty as always, Darlin'. It's not just you - I have Skill problems with After the Bomb too. I think I'd like to use this Ninjas & Superspies change for all of the characters I make, Toby included. Like I said:

The problem? After the Bomb's Skills, Background, and Education are not only getting in my way,

This would put 198X Skills into our 198X game.

For me, in After the Bomb, one needs an entire Apprenticeship to be an Armorer. With Ninjas and Superspies? It's one Skill (Armorer) and an O.O.C. that provides it. Those bonus Skills from Martial Art Systems? Many aren't in After the Bomb. But they're in Ninjas & Superspies. There's more but I'm sure you get the idea.

Kaerri, sorry to hear Kiseko is out. I'm looking forward to seeing who you'll come up with next?

* * *​

It bears repeating, this Ninjas & Superspies an option none of you are required to take. If you like who and what you're playing, go with it! I'm developing a game and everyone's input is helping that process along. I doubt I would have gotten here without your input! Thanks!

Look. Developing games can be confusing and even stressful. Sorry if anyone's feeling that! Not my intent at all. I'm used to the befuddlement, the sorting out of doubts and hopes, and juggling of lots options. Why? Because I'm the Game Master that I am. For me, it's all part of the process - there's plenty of fun in making the magic too. I wonder if this is how Kevin Seimbeida (creator of Palladium games) feels sometimes? From what I've seen of him in interviews, it is. =)

I'm just trying to provide everyone a good game. I love everyone's input, but if my bringing you these options is bringing anyone down, let me know! I want you to have fun and take joy in being part of the process. I can do the rest of this on my own; it'll just take a while longer.

How I wish I could just hand all of you a "finished product" right now and start playing tomorrow! But that's not how games come into being (at least, not most good ones). Like martial arts, it's work and a sacrifice of time and energy. And as far as I know, there's no other way to get there. Like my favorite band, Rush, the "secret" is plain hard work and long hours.

That's how Sharseya and Broadsword came into being. Definitely worth it! I'd do it all again!

I do it because it's worth it. You're worth it. So am I. Not sure where these feelings come from or why I'm saying it, but there they are! Hope you're having a good day, Gang! =)

Honor and fun,
Purr/Dann =)

 

[Sherwood]

I am in the middle of an experimental build using the NaSS skill sets to see how Moyo comes out.

 

[Kaerri]

Kaerri, sorry to hear Kiseko is out. I'm looking forward to seeing who you'll come up with next?

I have decided nothing at this time. I'm afraid of making a bad decision. May not be the wrong one, but likely bad regardless. I'm increasingly irritable about the whole thing and cannot at this time think rationally about it.

Maybe I should wait until others have given this new system a try. They'll be faster at it than I am anyway.

Apologies to all for my moodiness.

 

[Sherwood]

So far, I am liking the skill set that I have from NaSS. Since that book was set in the late 1980's, the skills seem to me to be more appropriate than AtB. Moyo's Iq takes a small hit down, but he's still pretty smart and I like that for him.

 

[Silanon]

The end result? Every character, both present and future, can have 198X Skills using a Skill selection program we've used before (back in Broadsword), with a balance that I think will work a lot better for Big Trouble in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. As always, how do you feel about it?

Honestly? This sounds like the worst solution. We have an issue with the rules, so we
a) introduce a new, flawed source book
b) introduce more rules to fix its balancing issues
c) leave the old options available to have a big mess of options, some changed and some not, so that we can all create half a dozen character sheets to see whether there's something that gets us a skill closer to our vision.

Personally, I don't see the appeal. Especially once we do the same thing two or three more times.

Apologies to all for my moodiness.

Nothing to apologize for - thanks for communicating so clearly. I'm seeing an overwhelming mess of potential options. Take your time, wait a while, and we'll find a way to make cool characters happen once we've settled on something.

Preferably something that has a certain simplicity to it. There are options that make a game better. And there are options that make it clunkier, more confusing, and irritating. I suggest we ask not only what cool other options we can find, but whether we need those options. An apprenticeship that's missing? Certainly. An overwhelming mess of new stuff? Not so much.

 

[Sherwood]

From what Purr was saying, you do not have to take the skill packages from Ninjas and Superspies. It is only an option. I have a full character done with the After the Bomb book, but from what I see of the NaSS skills, they appear to be a better fit for the time rather than the AtB book.

 

[Psychie]

Wait wait wait. You mean to tell me that the ass kissing I did on Sherwood to get my Elite Military wasn't needed? Ugh! I feel so dirty now.

lol

Seriously, let me look at the other book and see what I like.

 

[Sherwood]

Wait wait wait. You mean to tell me that the ass kissing I did on Sherwood to get my Elite Military wasn't needed? Ugh! I feel so dirty now.

lol

Seriously, let me look at the other book and see what I like.

Silly lady.

 

[Silanon]

From what Purr was saying, you do not have to take the skill packages from Ninjas and Superspies. It is only an option. I have a full character done with the After the Bomb book, but from what I see of the NaSS skills, they appear to be a better fit for the time rather than the AtB book.

That's how I understood him as well - thanks for pointing it out, though!

You might be right about it being a better fit - haven't checked, and I don't care too much to check it out at the moment, honestly. Quickly glanced over the list in the conversation, but didn't manage to see the point for me personally. Sure, I can stick to AtB, have potentially skills that are a worse fit, and be happy about it - at the moment, that's my plan. But I believe that's a way worse solution than saying "hey folks, AtB is neat, but doesn't quite fit the game. Let's take its species and stick to ninjas for the rest of it'. At least then I know that all classes should mostly be nerfed.

 

[Sherwood]

I can see what you mean. Take some time and ponder your options, then make a decision. You should be satisfied with the results then.

 

[Silanon]

I'll do that - thanks, it's appreciated. Might just be a case of letting it rest for a while to actually give it a chance, then. Right now, I'm not feeling that enthusiasm to run my character concept through multiple loops of different options to see what feels best. Not that I'd know with which option I'd want to begin with in any case.

 

[Purr]

Apologies to all for my moodiness.

Sil said it - you have nothing to apologize for. Life Is Life and we all have our up and down days. (Besides I honestly think that anyone who is wildly happy 100% of the time ought to see a doctor for that. =) )

I just want to share with you that I'm doing something for the characters I'll be playing. It's also it's only fair that I offer you the same options, isn't it?

saying "hey folks, AtB is neat, but doesn't quite fit the game. Let's take its species and stick to ninjas for the rest of it'.

I have failed to communicate. This is in no way what I mean to say.

Here it is. AtB's skills are not working for my characters in the setting I've created; I am using N&S's skills because those do. You are welcome to do the same or keep everything you already have.

For future Player Characters, I'll likely allow Players to take either route. But first I need to see what these characters look like (game development!).

You might be right about it being a better fit - haven't checked, and I don't care too much to check it out at the moment, honestly.

Right. It would not be fair of me if I asked you to do so. Can't blame you. You didn't know what After the Bomb was until just last week.

Wait wait wait. You mean to tell me that the ass kissing I did on Sherwood to get my Elite Military wasn't needed? Ugh! I feel so dirty now.

lol

Seriously, let me look at the other book and see what I like.

Oh, uh, you're not allowed to to read Ninjas & Superspies unless Sherwood says so. JUST KIDDING! =) *runs for cover* =)

 

[Psychie]

Oh, uh, you're not allowed to to read Ninjas & Superspies unless Sherwood says so. JUST KIDDING! =) *runs for cover* =)

Yeah! You'd better run! <Lobs a shoe in your direction>

 

[Silanon]

I have failed to communicate. This is in no way what I mean to say.

Here it is. AtB's skills are not working for my characters in the setting I've created; I am using N&S's skills because those do. You are welcome to do the same or keep everything you already have.

For future Player Characters, I'll likely allow Players to take either route. But first I need to see what these characters look like (game development!).

I don't believe you did, unless I'm completely missing the idea, Purr -what I meant is that I'd prefer the option to switch everything over to ninjas over the one we're having at the moment. I believe having two sets of roughly compatible systems (roughly since we need to adjust one to be somewhat on the same level) in the game adds unnecessary complexity. Well, not really complexity, more like just more stuff of the same kind. I do not wish to care about the question whether the nerfed fightery character from ninjas fits my character better than the one from AtB. And having the option to pick both feels like I should.

 

[Psychie]

Is there a specific WP for a Garrote or other kind of stealth-based strangling weapon?

 

[Purr]

Yeah! You'd better run! <Lobs a shoe in your direction>

Ha ha ha!

 

[Psychie]

Quick question. In the Ninjas and Superspies book there is a Physical skill of Archery, but in the skill description, I can't find it. Anyone know what bonuses this provides? And where I can find them?

 

[Sherwood]

Maybe its listed in the Master Skills List? But it may not be allowed if it is not described in the NaSS book.

 

[Purr]

what I meant is that I'd prefer the option to switch everything over to ninjas over the one we're having at the moment.

And having the option to pick both feels like I should.

Oh!! You're open to Ninjas & Superspies after all! Whoa!

And you'd rather have those skills then the option of After the Bomb's. In fact, the added options don't increase your fun, but lessen it! Boy, I didn't say that coming at all! =)

Kaerri Psychie Sherwood
Do you agree with Sil's opinion? Would you be happier if we only used Skills/O.C.C.s from N&S?

Is there a specific WP for a Garrote or other kind of stealth-based strangling weapon?

Off the top of my head, I would use W.P. chain for that.

Quick question. In the Ninjas and Superspies book there is a Physical skill of Archery, but in the skill description, I can't find it. Anyone know what bonuses this provides? And where I can find them?

Yes, an editing casualty I'm sure from an overworked but passionate game designer (Erick Wujcik). =) See W.P. Bow and W.P. Crossbow? (I'm not in front of my books or I'd give you a page number.)

 

[Psychie]

Ok, I can see those two, but I was wondering if there was any special bonus to taking Archery to increase my bow or crossbow skill. If not, I'm ok with that.

 

[Sherwood]

Do you agree with Sil's opinion? Would you be happier if we only used Skills/O.C.C.s from N&S?

I'm good sticking to one book for skills. That way we don't have the trouble of one book saying one thing while another saying another about the exact same item. No confusion.