How would you retrieve sth. from the seabed

[Samiel]

Good save..

 

[The zombie cat]

The difficulty is that rock (and more so with lead) is far denser than water, the displacement of the ship needs to be many times that of eth object your trying to transport.


The next problem is that if you try to hall a heavy object over the side of a boat it capsizes, heavy in this case is defined in relation to the total mass, with and general stability of the boat. In short the boat must have a mass several times that of the object being haled over its side (or have an out rigger or even be a catamaran).


Edward

 

[Samiel]

Catamaran seems more practical. Large catamaran.


Alternatively, haulers of small but very heavy items could actually have a hole/port in the middle of the ship, guarded against the water by reinforced gunwales. Then, it's simply a matter of winching up the items, provided they'll fit through the port.


Given that many of the difficulties in shipbuilding are involved in ensuring that she'll survive more than a journey, you can cut corners when building a dedicated hauler, also. It could nearly be as simple as hammering some boards together and bilging regularly while you move your large lead furniture back to the coast, or at least to a depth where they can be towed through the water without too much effort. Did your glorified raft break/sink? Ah well, you probably made spares for all that it'd have cost you.


Bless you, disposable income.

 

[Sherwood]

Or you make a suitable offering to the little god of your ship to help increase your buoyancy.  Add to that offerings to the gods of the rivers, lake, or ocean, and you have a tenny little boat hauling a huge pile of . . . whatever.

 

[Flyck]

I still think the destruction of Gem should have been an integral aspect to the plan.

 

[Sherwood]

Well, that IS the Exalted way...

 

[YogoIshida]

I still think the destruction of Gem should have been an integral aspect to the plan.

Dude, have you ever had a gaming session that didn't end with your character getting labeled as a WMD?
Y I

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Doesn't that usually require a few survivors that know who destroyed July and August? Or was that Gem and Chirascuro. No matter.

 

[Flyck]

Dude, have you ever had a gaming session that didn't end with your character getting labeled as a WMD?
Y I

Depends on which character we're talking about.  Most, not so much.  My Abyssal...  Nope, can't think of a session like you've described.

 

[Solfi]

... not necessarily. In fact, I much *prefer* characters that don't fit the mold.


And while on that tangent, anyone have any good ideas for interesting Dawn Caste concepts that don't fit their mold? I've always found their role the hardest to break in an interesting fashion...

 

[Guest]

Give a Dawn Craft Magitech and the Deragment we call "Tim Taylor Syndrom"


Thats loads of fun summing the char dosn't get to close to anything that is likly to explode. Its still fun just not for very long.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

That depends on the mold you place said Dawn in. Yes, they are generally warriors of one sort or another, but that can mean many things. They could be a respected martial arts Sifu, or a drunken brawler, perhaps a disciplined legionaire, or a student of the martial side of Magitech, a canny general, a foppish duelist, a pacifist student of Victorious Concession style at odds with their role as one of the supreme warriors of Creation...a Dawn can be many, many things. They should have some form of combat skill, and it should in some way be integral to the character...but that doesn't mean that's all they are. Hells, they could be the tough as nails merchant who travels to far lands in dangerous country and can handle any bandit or monster that comes their way with a few Firewand blasts.

 

[Persell]

I doubt the sun exalts pacifists into the dawn caste. the castebook stated that the will to kick ass is imperative for them. about the rest i of course agree even though i still find your scope too narrow.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Hells' date=' they could be the tough as nails merchant who travels to far lands in dangerous country and can handle any bandit or monster that comes their way with a few Firewand blasts.[/quote']
"45!"


"No! Fifty!"


"Pfft, piss off Merka-AGK!" *cleave'dd*


"I always sell at 45..."


:lol:

 

[Samiel]

I doubt the sun exalts pacifists into the dawn caste. the castebook stated that the will to kick ass is imperative for them. about the rest i of course agree even though i still find your scope too narrow.

Character concept is all that is imperative.


All that's generally required of a Dawn Caste character is that their character involves, involved or will at some stage involve martial brilliance. Consider a character who used to be awesome and terrifying, exalted, and then scared himself to pacifism with his own power. Or maybe he exalted as a Dawn after the pacifism kicked in: his potential and skill, as well as his self control and level head, attracted one of the heroic warrior shards.

 

[Flyck]

The first character I made for Exalted 1e, was a Dawn Caste blacksmith.  Just because they have to kick ass, doesn't mean they can't do something else as well.

 

[The zombie cat]

Dawn cast sorcerers are incredibly effective.


If anybody has read heretics of dune or chapterhouse dune basher Mils Teg is a dawn cast diplomat (you see my army, you know my reputation, now your going to talk aren’t you).


I tend to assume that 2 or 3 cast skills must be central to a character, if they where not then they would never exalt as that cast. Now for most casts this leaves the ability to leave out of an individual character one of the ariers there cast favours, eg a twilight that doesn’t build things or an eclipse that hates to travel. Dawn possesses only combat skills, thus you can not create a dawn that dosnt have martial combat as one of his more important psychological traits.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

And being a pacifist student of the Victorious Concesion stylr prevents one from kicking ass? Proving the strength of compassion as the greatest of the four virtues can take considerable fortitude...especially if one engages in the Debates. Bringing healing words of wisdom and peace through strength of arm and gentle heart can be quite a martial undertaking...particularlly in the Age of Sorrows.

 

[Persell]

Pacifism is the turning down of violence. Quite the opposite of what dawns are exalted for. If you bring words of love and peace and do that good, then you become an eclipse or a zenith. being a good martial artist doesn't make you a dawn.

 

[Samiel]

Not so! The Dawn aren't exclusively killing machines, they can be martial philosophers just as easily.


Take close-to-modern Martial-Artist Monks. Although a rarity nowadays, the tradition of learning martial arts had lingered long after its necessity as a means of combat had waned. Monks learned the arts as a means of balancing themselves and achieving self-discipline. Many of these individuals are otherwise unskilled; in Exalted terms, their only skill worthy of note would be Martial Arts. Going by skill choice alone, Dawn is their option.


Sure, monks are more likely to be Zenith on personality rather than skill, but the argument holds true of individuals who practise the martial arts or any other martial skill for its secondary benefits, rather than for killing.


To say that all Dawns should be killing machines is sort of closing the book on character concepts. Sure, they have a disposition towards killage, but it's not a chain on them, and not the strictest factor in their Exaltation. Chance and potential are the greatest markers for Exaltation.

 

[Persell]

I nowhere wrote that they should always be killing machines, so really spare me the "I did not read your post or the caste book but I will say something anyway"-crap, yes?

 

[Vanman]

Pacifism is the turning down of violence. Quite the opposite of what dawns are exalted for. If you bring words of love and peace and do that good, then you become an eclipse or a zenith. being a good martial artist doesn't make you a dawn.

Your statement above, while not explicitly stating that all Dawns are killing machines, does imply it quite heavily.


And defining pacifism as the turning down of violence depends on the type of pacifist you are. If you are a principled pacifist, then yes. I agree. I don't really see a principled pacifist becoming a Dawn caste. But a pragmatic pacifist? I very easily see a pragmatic pacifist being a Dawn caste. Someone who will use violence only as a last resort, and will avoid killing whenever possible. I think that would make for a very interesting character, actually.


On a similar vein, it would be interesting to see a Dawn caste with one of the old Champions stand bys, a code against killing. This is kind of a pacifism lite, so to speak. With a code against killing, you can engage in fisticuffs all day long, but you refuse to take a life. Again, that would be an extremely interesting character to play. It wouldn't preclude you from combat, but it might bring up some moral issues that would provide unique roleplaying scenarios.

 

[Jukashi]

As a well-known example, both Superman and Batman have compunctions against killing. Yet both are easily models for a Dawn Caste Solar.

 

[Duriel]

Maybe it's beacause that I'm new here... :roll:


But I'm really surprised, how much an "non off-topic" theme can change into another.


If you would see the 2 Dawns, then you would find the prototype for killing machines (they can kill for their low-exp, but not really more).


But I think too, that Dawns could be a pacifist like(,maybe until you dis his mother  :twisted:  )

 

[Persell]

Pacifism is the turning down of violence. Quite the opposite of what dawns are exalted for. If you bring words of love and peace and do that good, then you become an eclipse or a zenith. being a good martial artist doesn't make you a dawn.

Your statement above, while not explicitly stating that all Dawns are killing machines, does imply it quite heavily.


And defining pacifism as the turning down of violence depends on the type of pacifist you are. If you are a principled pacifist, then yes. I agree. I don't really see a principled pacifist becoming a Dawn caste. But a pragmatic pacifist? I very easily see a pragmatic pacifist being a Dawn caste. Someone who will use violence only as a last resort, and will avoid killing whenever possible. I think that would make for a very interesting character, actually.


On a similar vein, it would be interesting to see a Dawn caste with one of the old Champions stand bys, a code against killing. This is kind of a pacifism lite, so to speak. With a code against killing, you can engage in fisticuffs all day long, but you refuse to take a life. Again, that would be an extremely interesting character to play. It wouldn't preclude you from combat, but it might bring up some moral issues that would provide unique roleplaying scenarios.

I agree with you, but you and me know, that when people bring up pacifism as concept they rarely speak about the pragmatic kind. It being labeled pacifism at all is rare to be honest.


@superman and batman:


both use violence whenever neccessary and especially batman is not very big on the talk first scenarios at all. Not killing mindlessly doesn't make you a pacifist and by that definition a lot of archetypal dawns would already be pacifists.


Which both actually has nothing to do with the topic I brought up. A dawns life is determined by the will to strife, to overcome obstacles. This does not always have to be violent, but the option is certainly there. Being a monk and meditating on pacifism all day long while practising some cool and uber martial art does not actually lead to a life of strife.