Viewpoint Hot take: Multi-paragraph posts are unproductive

[Tulik]

I don't think we are though. I think what OP was ultimately getting at (what they sort of realized through the course of this thread itself) is that there are very different philosophies when it comes to writing. Some people prefer brevity and some prefer detail.

I also think that linking post requirements with people who write unnecessary detail is just confusing. Because what is unnecessary detail really is going to come down to individual interpretation. And most people who are asking for "one - to - two paragraph minimum" aren't out here asking you to write a five page essay on someone's house. And if nothing else perhaps this thread has shaken that assumption form a few people's heads.

Two paragraphs aren’t really an essay, nor would that fit into five pages. If the argument is brevity against detail I think that’s disingenuous. I could provide all the detail you require in a couple paragraphs and still keep it short and fluid. People who think shorter posts aren’t detailed are just factually incorrect. And to be clear: short post does not mean two sentences. I’m not speaking about one word responses. A single paragraph can provide ample material to reply to without cluttering the page.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Two paragraphs aren’t really an essay, nor would that fit into five pages. If the argument is brevity against detail I think that’s disingenuous. I could provide all the detail you require in a couple paragraphs and still keep it short and fluid. People who think shorter posts aren’t detailed are just factually incorrect. And to be clear: short post does not mean two sentences. I’m not speaking about one word responses. A single paragraph can provide ample material to reply to without cluttering the page.

Again we're running into an argument of semantics. The point was very much that the OP originally started out saying that post requirements invited unnecessary details because they forced people to add fluff to hit a word count. Where sometimes a few sentences or a paragraph would suffice for action/dialogue.

That is very much in keeping with brevity writing. It is focusing on the characters or the action of the plot and leaving fleshing out the world to be a bonus. If it's not immediately relevant it gets cut out.

World building (or detailed writing) on the other hand holds that fleshing out the world is the point of each post. Yes there is going to be some plot or character interaction going on but it isn't the absolute focus of the post. It is equally important to flesh out the world. No one is saying you have to write an entire essay to do that. Not even the OP was claiming that was what they were talking about.

So yeah if you have an issue with people asking for 1000 words per post that's fine. That isn't what the rest of us are talking about but it's a totally valid opinion to have. But as I said previously, this is not a discussion where

more words = good
less words = bad.

No one has said that. All anyone is saying is that there are different writing styles and they tend to do best when matched up with people of like minds.

 

[Tulik]

Again we're running into an argument of semantics. The point was very much that the OP originally started out saying that post requirements invited unnecessary details because they forced people to add fluff to hit a word count. Where sometimes a few sentences or a paragraph would suffice for action/dialogue.

That is very much in keeping with brevity writing. It is focusing on the characters or the action of the plot and leaving fleshing out the world to be a bonus. If it's not immediately relevant it gets cut out.

World building (or detailed writing) on the other hand holds that fleshing out the world is the point of each post. Yes there is going to be some plot or character interaction going on but it isn't the absolute focus of the post. It is equally important to flesh out the world. No one is saying you have to write an entire essay to do that. Not even the OP was claiming that was what they were talking about.

So yeah if you have an issue with people asking for 1000 words per post that's fine. That isn't what the rest of us are talking about but it's a totally valid opinion to have. But as I said previously, this is not a discussion where

more words = good
less words = bad.

No one has said that. All anyone is saying is that there are different writing styles and they tend to do best when matched up with people of like minds.

Totally agreeable notions. I suppose when you have a hot button topic with many differing opinions it is possible to get lost in the sauce. As well when it comes down to it all that really matters is finding a fluidity that’s YOU'RE comfortable with. It’s not as much about the words on the screen, as your enjoyment from putting them there. If you’re having fun, then I believe you’re more likely to write more. That’s not always the case, of course, but I think enjoyment does definitely factor into your ability to produce detailed and well structured posts.as if you’re uninterested you’ll run into burnout quickly and your posts will suffer from it.

 

[Dov]

I'll tell you a secret: You, right now, are in your own head.

Don't be pretentious, it's obnoxious. And inaccurate.

To say that "only a character that is very introspective" would be so much in their own head is to really reduce the scope of what thoughts are.

And don't put words in my mouth, it's even more obnoxious. An introspective character puts their thoughts into words, I never said anything about only very introspective characters. I consciously work not to be in my own head. I've gone very far out of my way to absorb my environment without analyzing it. Because that has been my experience, I have characters who reflect that.
Example: Levian's life is terrible, he's under the thumb of long-term blackmail. If he stopped and allowed himself to think about his situation, he'd probably have a debilitating mental breakdown. He carefully keeps his thoughts on the surface and doesn't analyze what happens to him. Expressing his thoughts in an inner monologue would reflect him considering said inner thoughts. That's not the case so I pretty much never write about what Levian's thinking. It would be extremely out of character.
Nomatter is not a word. Absolutely disagree that simple equals short. Not all body language is relevant. Some is. Some isn't. You've made it clear that you enjoy writing about completely irrelevant aspects of a story, I've made it clear I think it's a waste of brain activity to read about it.

 

[Idea]

Don't be pretentious, it's obnoxious. And inaccurate.


And don't put words in my mouth, it's even more obnoxious. An introspective character puts their thoughts into words, I never said anything about only very introspective characters. I consciously work not to be in my own head. I've gone very far out of my way to absorb my environment without analyzing it. Because that has been my experience, I have characters who reflect that.
Example: Levian's life is terrible, he's under the thumb of long-term blackmail. If he stopped and allowed himself to think about his situation, he'd probably have a debilitating mental breakdown. He carefully keeps his thoughts on the surface and doesn't analyze what happens to him. Expressing his thoughts in an inner monologue would reflect him considering said inner thoughts. That's not the case so I pretty much never write about what Levian's thinking. It would be extremely out of character.

You cannot be out of your own head. That is categorically impossible. Yes, we don't think of ourselves as being in our own head in our day to da lives, but there's no escaping it given you all our sensory experience is directly translated into our perception by our brains.

I know this may sound like semantics, and I assure you that I did not mean to misconstrue you, but this is what I was responding to:
"Not all characters are so much in their own head. A character who isn't introspective isn't likely to have a very informative inner monologue."

That is not correct. Because inner monologue is not solely built from someone "thinking to themselves" if you will. To some it will just be the focus of the character's mind, but in fact it can be made from any aspect of a person's perception. It is, after all, all in their mind.

To clarify again: It is not that I saying that, following your assumption of inner monologue being made up of conscious thoughts, you aren't correct. What I AM saying is that those conscious thoughts actually make up a very small part of our sensory and overall mental experience, all of which are in our heads.

Absolutely disagree that simple equals short.

This has to do with the idea that I've been talking through since the beginning of my engagement in this thread, that of the "simple, casual and detailed" mindsets.

Simple, casual and detailed are classifications of detail level, and are usually associated with lengths as well. They do not denote skills, but writing styles.

As for the mindset part, I've been talking about the way the different detail levels involve different values which in turn create different approaches to writing and thus different writing styles. These writing styles in turn tend to produce larger or smaller posts.

So yes, in context simple equals short. This isn't so much a matter one can agree or disagree on, it's just that within context they are pretty much synonymous.

Not all body language is relevant

Maybe not to you, but again, it's there and that was the point of me mentioning it. All I was saying is that the material does in fact exist with which one can work.

I've made it clear I think it's a waste of brain activity to read about it.

Don't be pretentious, it's obnoxious

 

[Idea]

Hey Dov sorry, that was probably rude. Not intended to be, my apologies. I'm pretty tired as I post this but yeah. Just wanted to say I'm sorry for any rudeness in my previous post, I'll be pulling out of the discussion now.

Edit: Anyone who has anything they wanna say to me and sees this post, please send it to me via PM!

 

[Dov]

Then it comes down to another instance of differing definitions. I would define an inner monologue as a character's conscious thoughts. Everybody talks to themself in their head sometimes, some more than others. I would say that instances of talking to oneself in their head is an inner monologue. Unconscious or subconscious thoughts would either be expressed in noticeable body language or not at all at the time they're forming. Maybe they come up in a dream, or as an after thought, but they wouldn't be a part of the situation at hand. That also comes around to 'relevance'.
Opinions aren't inherently pretentious. Defining somebody's reality based on your limited experience is. Telling somebody their experience is limited is also pretentious, so now I'm being pretentious.

 

[Idea]

Then it comes down to another instance of differing definitions. I would define an inner monologue as a character's conscious thoughts. Everybody talks to themself in their head sometimes, some more than others.

Sure, just, you were talking about the posts of someone whom I'm guessing probably doesn't define it that way if they are anything like myself.

Defining somebody's reality based on your limited experience is.

I mean...I wasn't really going off experience. But point noted.

Hey Dov sorry, that was probably rude. Not intended to be, my apologies. I'm pretty tired as I post this but yeah. Just wanted to say I'm sorry for any rudeness in my previous post, I'll be pulling out of the discussion now.

As mentioned here, barr something really drastic, I shall make this my last response in this thread.

 

[Nika Norman]

My gosh, lots of good, relatable stuff here.

Something that I'm a little iffy about is when dialogue is happening, and in the following responses, characters go over the dialogue points and reiterate every single little thing that has been said, which is a little unnatural. I think that's probably just a unique difference between solo writing and Roleplay. I notice this a lot in multi-paragraph formats.

 

[rae2nerdy]

My gosh, lots of good, relatable stuff here.

Something that I'm a little iffy about is when dialogue is happening, and in the following responses, characters go over the dialogue points and reiterate every single little thing that has been said, which is a little unnatural. I think that's probably just a unique difference between solo writing and Roleplay. I notice this a lot in multi-paragraph formats.

Yeah I think that is lack of experience issue. I know I used to do that when I first started expanding my posts cuz I couldn't think of any other way to hit the word limit. Now I will do it more like an actual conversation where I directly respond to the last thing and just have the character maybe think about the important parts that come before.

But yeah I think it's one of those things where it's best to just gently bring it to your partners attention. "You don't have to respond to every line of dialogue. You can just paraphrase if you want. If it makes the posts shorter that's okay." Cuz I think a lot of time people start focusing on word limit and forget about content. Especially if they are transitioning from shorter to longer posts. So it's good to give some gentle feedback (if they seem open to it. if they seem easily offended just let it go.)

 

[moocow]

Yes, i mostly like big posts just as the openers now. i went through a phase long long back where i thought a good rp post was like a book but then i realized that you couldn't actually have any interaction without doing collabs... which were kinda a pain. short interactive posts i like more than long collabs. but then sometimes i do still like to indulge in D E E P A N G S T Y T H O U G H T S too! :>

basically i found out writing a book and writing a roleplay are like two totally different things ha

 

[Kylesar1]

My requirement is 1 paragraph minimum. Yeah, people don't talk in paragraphs, but RPing isn't just rapid fire dialog. You may have to explain your character's reaction or thought process, their feelings. How does the setting affect them? What is their body language? How do they perceive and react to my character's tone or my character's body language? That's not fluff in the least. I would venture to say that it's more important than the dialog itself because it contributes to the ever important character development, which is the most important thing in a 1x1 RP. If I don't care about your character, I can't be expected to put my full ass into my posts.

This is especially the case in a forum setting, where responses don't come as fast as, say, a Discord or other IM style RP. If there are day or two long gaps between replies, I'm gonna be pretty peeved if it's just a one-liner. It's like a filler episode in a show like Steven Universe, which was notorious for is long hiatuses. If I have to wait a month or two for an episode of Steven Universe and it's a filler episode, I'm gonna be pissed.

• Action
• Reaction
• Setting
• Dialog
• Worldbuilding
• Supporting Characters or NPC actions
• Thoughts, Feelings, Body Language

These are 7 things you can write about in a post. A paragraph is 3-5 sentences. If you can't write 3-5 sentences in a post with a mix of all those different criteria, I really don't want to RP with you. At that point, I will begin to feel like you just want to be carried through the RP and I've dealt with that bullshit enough. I want partners that contribute to the RP and contribute to the world, and I can't do that if you can't come up with 3-5 sentences worth of content.

 

[Dov]

What about when you have partners who respond almost immediately and very regularly?

 

[rae2nerdy]

What about when you have partners who respond almost immediately and very regularly?

I mean if (general) you can get a paragraph or more posts out quickly bully for (general) you. I am not going to respond immediately to your post. It takes me time to write a post and usually I have other shit going on in my life. Most people who are looking for paragraph or more per a post are gonna have at minimum a day posting schedule. So you post once a day they're good. But most people I know are actually more like every other day or once a week posting schedule. So they give you plenty of time to write up a longer post.

 

[Crayons]

What about when you have partners who respond almost immediately and very regularly?

If they reply too quickly, it can sometimes be because they are just phoning in the post without thinking about it.

But then having done plenty of real-time chat room/messenger RP it's perfectly possible to do fast and good.

 

[Dov]

So I guess my question is more that: Would one have the same issue with the concept of the insufficient post with hiatuses around it if the hiatus thing were not a factor? Would one be more content to deal in shorter posts/dialogue heavy/other stuff light posts if the partner is fairly quick to respond? I can totally understand being frustrated with minimal posts that are also wide apart, but I enjoy it when characters have a conversation nearly in real-time, messenger style rp as you put it.
My experience has been that back and forth conversation coupled with fairly rapid posting is more disjointed when posts including much world building are inserted into said rapid back and forth. Of course, that's dependent on the setting. If a conversation is happening on a battlefield Legolas and Gimley style, then descriptive posts would be much more necessary despite the conversation element. When I talk about rapid back and forth, I'm referring to conversation that occurs in a setting that is conducive to conversation, a bar, a walk from point A to point B through repetitive terrain, a room which has already been described and not changed since the beginning of the conversation, etc.
Thoughts?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Well I mean if you are doing rapid posts you are rarely going to have a post limit in the first place. For exactly that reason, you are focusing more on the speed with which the posts are exchanged and less so their length.

So it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The people who post fast aren't concerned with length. The people who are concerned with length are by their nature gonna be slower posters.

 

[Crayons]

So I guess my question is more that: Would one have the same issue with the concept of the insufficient post with hiatuses around it if the hiatus thing were not a factor? Would one be more content to deal in shorter posts/dialogue heavy/other stuff light posts if the partner is fairly quick to respond? I can totally understand being frustrated with minimal posts that are also wide apart, but I enjoy it when characters have a conversation nearly in real-time, messenger style rp as you put it.
My experience has been that back and forth conversation coupled with fairly rapid posting is more disjointed when posts including much world building are inserted into said rapid back and forth. Of course, that's dependent on the setting. If a conversation is happening on a battlefield Legolas and Gimley style, then descriptive posts would be much more necessary despite the conversation element. When I talk about rapid back and forth, I'm referring to conversation that occurs in a setting that is conducive to conversation, a bar, a walk from point A to point B through repetitive terrain, a room which has already been described and not changed since the beginning of the conversation, etc.
Thoughts?

I would definitely be happier with shorter posts/quicker time frame if I was able to keep up with the time frame.

I'm doing an RP like that now on Discord, dialogue heavy scene, not much else happening, and none of my or my partners posts are under 300 words. I don't really see how you can do it in less and give it any meaningful content.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I would definitely be happier with shorter posts/quicker time frame if I was able to keep up with the time frame.

I'm doing an RP like that now on Discord, dialogue heavy scene, not much else happening, and none of my or my partners posts are under 300 words. I don't really see how you can do it in less and give it any meaningful content.

Okay that sounds impressive. I can't get a reply out quickly at the best of times, trying to get 300+ words out rapid fire would just stress me out. But I am always impressed with people who can that as writers. Like ya'll got some mad skills.

 

[Crayons]

Okay that sounds impressive. I can't get a reply out quickly at the best of times, trying to get 300+ words out rapid fire would just stress me out. But I am always impressed with people who can that as writers. Like ya'll got some mad skills.

I mean like one post every day or two currently. This is short & fast for me. But I used to do this kind of thing in the olden days multiple posts per day.

I had to stop doing messenger/chat RPs because I became addicted to it. Now I try to make time for RP without spending ALL of my time doing RP or thinking about RP. I have other stuff I need to do.

 

[Dov]

I don't really see how you can do it in less and give it any meaningful content.

You say exactly what you mean to say, nothing more, nothing less. If you can do that in a sentence or two, or several pages, it is what it is.

 

[Crayons]

You say exactly what you mean to say, nothing more, nothing less. If you can do that in a sentence or two, or several pages, it is what it is.

If that floats your boat, sure. But it would bore/annoy/frustrate me to all hell and back if I get a one or two sentence post from my partner. And I have read this thread and do not want to get back into that, thank you.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I mean like one post every day or two currently. This is short & fast for me. But I used to do this kind of thing in the olden days multiple posts per day.

I had to stop doing messenger/chat RPs because I became addicted to it. Now I try to make time for RP without spending ALL of my time doing RP or thinking about RP. I have other stuff I need to do.

Yeah I tried the rapid fire thing but it really does suck you in and I'm like nope I know my self well enough to know that's a bad road to go down. I prefer it when my partners are more laid back and they're like "post whenever man. if it's today awesome, if it's thursday that's cool too."

 

[Crayons]

Yeah I tried the rapid fire thing but it really does suck you in and I'm like nope I know my self well enough to know that's a bad road to go down. I prefer it when my partners are more laid back and they're like "post whenever man. if it's today awesome, if it's thursday that's cool too."

If it's not OK to post once a week I generally don't join an RP.

 

[Wandering Fae]

I've been scouring the 1x1 interest checks and nothing turns me off faster than a minimum paragraph requirement. Rp is, ideally, a back-and-forth, and therefore primarily dialogue. Organic conversations aren't two paragraphs per reply. When people talk, they don't have multiple conversations going at once with the same person, they don't talk for two paragraphs unless they're telling an anecdote, and they don't do eighty things between volleys. Paragraph requirements are ruinous and people who can't reply to conversation without seeing many details re-established probably struggle to communicate with humans.
Multi-paragraph posts are good for establishing new settings, scenes, and characters. Once you've established those things, no part of those things needs to be described again unless something changes or becomes more important.
Thoughts?

I see why you mean but mostly I just put paragraph minimums so that people will actually put effort in and try. I understand that when it comes to rapid-fire conversation it doesn't take two paragraphs but I also know that when I don't put minimums people take advantage of that and just don't try at all whatsoever and it becomes an RP riddled with one-liners and inadequate responses.

Do you know how annoying it is to have a fight scene where someone's response to everything that is going on is "he dodges" doesn't even explain how the does, does he duck, did her jump put of the way, which way did he go?