General Discussion [Dreams of the Third Age]

[Ludek]

@Myllinnia


Are you sure you want imperfection that makes you vulnerable toward people, toward people who fell under you spell? You as creature of passion?


That would give you incentive not to 'engage attention' of other beings (I doubt your PC would limit herself to humans) since no relation no weakness.


Maybe make if that PS is vulnerable toward high temperance individuals unless they .. I don't know have positive intimiacy toward PC or were seduced by PC?


But take it with grain of salt since I will play with high temperance, so whole things borders on self-promotion.

 

[Myllinnia]

I'm not sure of what you are suggesting. But then its... late...


Oh I think I know where you are going.


The intent is not for passion... the intent is Betrayal. A chara that betrays her will hurt her a lot, while one that is just mean won't mean as much. Intimacies are hard to work with, but using the Passion route alters some things. But ya know... I'll think on it.


Should I work on an Imperfection that thrashes my chara's Passion (and use Temperance) or her fear of Betrayal? Both are good ideas, nod nod.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

WarDragon: It was indeed brought up before. Solars need fewer charms to achieve the same effects of other splats. For example, a solar only needs one or two charm in his tree to get very powerful effects, see seven shadow evasion (2 charms in), hypnotic tongue (1 charm in, UMI) etc... and top of it, their bp cost are lower than the other splats.


Let see give me a bit to answer all the questions.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

Ludek: Not really that many powerful exalts out there, since the main idea, it's basically you guys and a few other npcs. Starting Solar/abyssal/infernal could potentially be allies depending on the circumstances. As for Scarlet Whisper, I don't really have anything plan for her.


Kaji-Oni: free people from religious indoctrination? It depends. Some people have it as their motivations to follow religious ideals for a reason or another and as you know changing someone motivation can actually be pretty tough.Guess , just saying that the stone that you are thinking about, should be more specific in what it does, write it down and let see.


WarDragon: 4 specialties indeed. A second magical material bonus? Pretty sure there are no items like that and most of the items that are alloy of multiple magical material bonuses end up being generic items not giving any kind of bonuses. You might be better off just making custom bracers artifacts. As rebels you wouldn't get indeed the free dots from being a Green Sun Prince.


Seeker of the End: those are the concepts of heretical charms, charms must be from different yozis and yes it can include your devil tiger as you essentially cannibalized a charm set for a reason or another.


As for the devil tiger charms/heretical charms little debate, the idea is to keep the prerequisites. Which frankly isn't difficult, and yes you can count your shintai or sorcerous initiation as one a prerequisite, it's literally the only point in cannibalizing a charm set. Of course the biggest issue, when cannibalizing a charm set, you might lose on some essential stuffs, like there aren't many reasons to not take Malfeas charms to get some soak for example.


All the DTs don't need to have been there to fight the Silver Prince, there are a couple of other DT out there. Roughly 8 devil tigers are in creation, including you guys.

 

[Ludek]

@Goddamnbatman


Can I customize outlook of certain charms I want make them more in line with my spider, theme


Celedyne shintai:


Instead of living sand , PC is composed of tiny crystal spiders


Heuristic Logo:


PC dissolves into whirling cloud of tiny crystal spiders.


Will crushing force:


Instead of white flame target is swarmed by tiny crystal spiders who covers him then with multicolor glow, sink into/take shape and looks of covered target - leaving it seemingly unchanged.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

When it comes to charms aesthetic, I normally don't care much about it, considering that a lot of them offers some freedom in how you describe them or change depending of context but it's worth noting that Primordial/infernal charms have very specific themes and a special case. I would have to say no for Cecelyne shintai. She Who Lives in Her Name charm to look like crystal spiders yeah sure.

 

[WarDragon]

WarDragon: 4 specialties indeed. A second magical material bonus? Pretty sure there are no items like that and most of the items that are alloy of multiple magical material bonuses end up being generic items not giving any kind of bonuses. You might be better off just making custom bracers artifacts. As rebels you wouldn't get indeed the free dots from being a Green Sun Prince.

The only example I know of is the Infinite Resplendence Amulet... but, probably won't have enough artifact dots for this idea anyway.

As for the devil tiger charms/heretical charms little debate, the idea is to keep the prerequisites. Which frankly isn't difficult, and yes you can count your shintai or sorcerous initiation as one a prerequisite, it's literally the only point in cannibalizing a charm set. Of course the biggest issue, when cannibalizing a charm set, you might lose on some essential stuffs, like there aren't many reasons to not take Malfeas charms to get some soak for example.

Well, the problem there is two-fold. First, you can only cannibalize General Charms and Charms that have an Excellency as a prerequisite, and you do it immediately on taking Triumphant Howl of the Devil Tiger. It does not say that you can still use cannibalized Charms to fulfill prerequisites. Second, the Charm that lets you make your own Charmset is the one that requires two Shintais (plus Triumphant Howl), so you can't use your own Shintai to qualify for it, and it does not have the cannibalizing clause.

 

[Esbilon]

Does anyone know if it is stated in canon which primordial Merela defeated? Alternatively where it is stated that she actually did it?


And assuming that the writers were their usual unspecific selves and never actually stated it. How do you feel about it being that moment when Mardukth got killed into He Who Holds in Thrall?

 

[WarDragon]

It was deliberately left open, but Mardukth is one common fanon choice.

 

[Seeker of the End]

I thought Theion (Malfeas) killed Markduth.

 

[Esbilon]

Theion defeated him to take command of the Primordials, but Mardukth didn't die then.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

I think it was left open.

 

[WarDragon]

WarDragon: It was indeed brought up before. Solars need fewer charms to achieve the same effects of other splats. For example, a solar only needs one or two charm in his tree to get very powerful effects, see seven shadow evasion (2 charms in), hypnotic tongue (1 charm in, UMI) etc... and top of it, their bp cost are lower than the other splats.

One last word here... white you're right about Solars and Abyssals, this really is not true of Infernals, by deliberate design. Especially for Devil-Tigers. A Solar can pick up the basics pretty easily, but an Infernal who doesn't want to go Adorjan and run around like a lunatic in battle has to go at least four Charms deep in the tree to get a Perfect defense. Infernal UMI (Crowned with Fury) is three charms in, locked behind "I don't feel pain from nonlethal wounds" and "I don't need to sleep except to regain WP and suffer horrible nightmares when I do." Don't get even get me started on their keyword defenses... out of the 40 non-custom Charms I have now, only 10 aren't prerequisites for the Devil Tiger heresy tree. I wasn't able to get any crafting Charms, no sorcery spells at all, and almost no offense or defense outside of my custom ones.


I don't want to sound like I'm whining, but could we at least get the five core Devil Tiger charms for free after meeting the prerequisites? If not, I won't argue any more, and find a way to squeeze things in, but those Charms really don't offer any direct benefit in themselves.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

Free devil tiger core charms if you meet the prerequisites, this sounds reasonable, yeah sure for infernals.

 

[Esbilon]

Free devil tiger core charms if you meet the prerequisites, this sounds reasonable, yeah sure for infernals.

Which five charms are they precisely? And is it really fair to give the Infernals five new charms and the other Solaroids nothing?

 

[Goddamnbatman]

Let see what I can give to the solars:


-Five free excellencies or alternatively can trade one or more of the excellencies for a mote expander (Immanent Solar Glory or overdrive charm) or Ox-Body.


The five devil tiger charms if they qualify, which means in the case of the game would be:


-First Excellency


-Mythos Exultant


-Sorcerous initiation (only terrestrial level), have to buy the other levels and buy spells as well.


and well you know the rest of the charms name.

 

[Esbilon]

Let see what I can give to the solars:
-Five free excellencies or alternatively can trade one or more of the excellencies for a mote expander (Immanent Solar Glory or overdrive charm) or Ox-Body.


The five devil tiger charms if they qualify, which means in the case of the game would be:


-First Excellency


-Mythos Exultant


-Sorcerous initiation (only terrestrial level), have to buy the other levels and buy spells as well.


and well you know the rest of the charms name.

Giving Excellencies would be pretty much like giving free charms since we need Excellencies as prerequisites of most of our other charms. Not that I'd complain, mind you, but if the idea is to give a locked bonus, they don't really work


Also, I think the charms WarDragon referred to were some of the ones starting with Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger

 

[Lord-Leafar]

Let see what I can give to the solars:
-Five free excellencies or alternatively can trade one or more of the excellencies for a mote expander (Immanent Solar Glory or overdrive charm) or Ox-Body.

I can get behind that! Now....what charms to get

 

[Myllinnia]

While I will not argue for or against consider this:


Howl of the Devil Tiger - Benefit... Your own Excellency.


Tempest of Inward Focus - Redefining Caste Stuff (Aside from one's own Anima not much given to us save homebrewing opportunities


The Flame of the Rising Phoenix - More caste stuff (Simply caste name) and yay our own charms. (But really nothing new one could as has been argued since 3e's inception if we want DTs just go hey ST let me run with this charmset. xD )


Face of the Titans - Torment.


Swallow the Scorpion... - Ensures our Exaltations do not return to Yozi default status.


Mechanical benefit: The okay to homebrew. xD


----


But I see our ST went that way and not this way so... yay?

 

[Goddamnbatman]

He said devil tigers charms tho hmmm because the access to devil tigers are technically heretical charms but guess that's semantics. But if it is the case for the access charms, yeah sure i can get behind that.

 

[Lord-Leafar]

I do not mean to intrude on anyone else's business, but I just have to mention that being a Devil Tiger (and getting the necessary DT charms and requirements) it's a roleplaying choice, not a necessity. Just as is playing a Casteless Lunar instead of a Tattooed one.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

Regular Infernals are indeed welcome but well, I don't think that we have any of those applying, so might as well give them the access charms to get that part out of the way.

 

[WarDragon]

Wow, thanks! Wasn't expecting a response that fast... but now I'm a bit confused. I think we're using "Devil Tiger Charms" to mean two different things.

The five devil tiger charms if they qualify, which means in the case of the game would be:
-First Excellency


-Mythos Exultant


-Sorcerous initiation (only terrestrial level), have to buy the other levels and buy spells as well.


and well you know the rest of the charms name.

So, that's hwat we get for free? I just meant Triumphant Howl of the Devil Tiger, Swallowing the Scorpion, Tempest of Inward Focus, Flame of the Rising Phoenix, and Face of the Titans.

 

[Goddamnbatman]

Yeah we are just going to go with the access charms since, it seems that all infernals are going DT anyway: (as soon as you qualify of course).


Triumphant Howl of the Devil Tiger, Swallowing the Scorpion, Tempest of Inward Focus, Flame of the Rising Phoenix, and Face of the Titans.

 

[Esbilon]

And you're sticking with this for the solaroids?

Let see what I can give to the solars:
-Five free excellencies or alternatively can trade one or more of the excellencies for a mote expander (Immanent Solar Glory or overdrive charm) or Ox-Body.