Fandom Fate/Drifters

[wdinatx]

N-no! Siegfried is horrible~! I don't want to hear him mentioned ever again here! Hmph~!

Siegfried

But Faffy, Seigfried is a hero of justice.

 

[Equusheart]

Guys which should I start with? Apocrypha or Zero?

 

[wdinatx]

Guys which should I start with? Apocrypha or Zero?

Zero.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Guys which should I start with? Apocrypha or Zero?

Zero is the best way to know how regular grail wars are supposed to work. Fate stay breaks too many rules. Apocrypaha...is Apocrypha.

 

[Idea]

Guys which should I start with? Apocrypha or Zero?

Apocrypha is set in an alternate version from the main fate series. Since your goal is to learn, prioritizing the main storyline (zero, stay night and unlimited blade works) would be good.

 

[Equusheart]

Random question, would witchcraft fall under the same classifications as a mage?

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Random question, would witchcraft fall under the same classifications as a mage?

Every magic that still exists today is considered magecraft in the Fate world. So yes, modern witchcraft is pretty much magecraft...unless it doesn't involve magic circuits at all...in which case, it'd be something closer to true magic (which no longer really exist in the modern time period). Mages are humans with magic circuits. 'Witch' sounds like another way to refer to a female mage. However, that depends on whether you want 'witches' to be to human or an entirely different species.

Old witchcraft, practiced by the witches of olden times, is true magic.

 

[Equusheart]

...unless it doesn't involve magic circuits at all...in which case, it'd be something closer to true magic (which no longer really exist in the modern time period).

Old witchcraft, practiced by the witches of olden times, is true magic.

So spells and charms would fall under true magic then?

Reason I'm asking is cause I'm trying to have my character's background link her with the old celtic and druid magics.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

So spells and charms would fall under true magic then?

Reason I'm asking is cause I'm trying to have my character's background link her with the old celtic and druid magics.

No, spells and charms are magecraft. Magecraft has a lot of variety. Runes, charms, spells, chants, etc. I'd say it's even more various than past magics. The ritual to summon servants, for example, is basically magecraft. However, in terms of strength, magecraft doesn't compare to true magic.

The mystery in the modern world is severely less than that of the past. Gods no longer exist. The only ones who can use true magic are the ones who have experienced it in the past, who lived in an era where the mystery was higher (generally Caster servants, but it can also be others). The quality of circuits has greatly diminished since then and people that are born in modern society have less/lower quality magic circuits(which are essentially channels of mana) than their ancestors. If old celtic and druid magic still exists, then it would fall under modern magecraft simply for still existing in the current era...because it's the modern version of what it was in the past. I think.

Xel , The One Eyed Bandit
Opinions from my Fate experts?

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

No, spells and charms are magecraft. Magecraft has a lot of variety. Runes, charms, spells, chants, etc. I'd say it's even more various than past magics. The ritual to summon servants, for example, is basically magecraft. However, in terms of strength, magecraft doesn't compare to true magic.

The mystery in the modern world is severely less than that of the past. Gods no longer exist. The only ones who can use true magic are the ones who have experienced it in the past, who lived in an era where the mystery was higher (generally Caster servants, but it can also be others). The quality of circuits has greatly diminished since then and people that are born in modern society have less/lower quality magic circuits(which are essentially channels of mana) than their ancestors. If old celtic and druid magic still exists, then it would fall under modern magecraft simply for still existing in the current era...because it's the modern version of what it was in the past. I think.

Xel , The One Eyed Bandit
Opinions from my Fate experts?

Mostly on point, but not even Casters have True Magic. Medea for example uses Magecraft, but is so powerful in comparison to modern Magus because of how much higher in quality Magecraft was back then, because as Magecraft becomes more widespread, it also becomes weaker since the Mystery of it is lowered as a result.

True Magic is a set of five I think specific types of Magic that one can achieve by reaching the Root. The Second, Third, and Fifth have been discovered, which are dimension hopping, something do to with souls that i'm not really sure about because I haven't seen Heaven's Feel, and time travel. There also tends to only be like, one user of each True Magic at a time.

 

[Xel]

No, spells and charms are magecraft. Magecraft has a lot of variety. Runes, charms, spells, chants, etc. I'd say it's even more various than past magics. The ritual to summon servants, for example, is basically magecraft. However, in terms of strength, magecraft doesn't compare to true magic.

The mystery in the modern world is severely less than that of the past. Gods no longer exist. The only ones who can use true magic are the ones who have experienced it in the past, who lived in an era where the mystery was higher (generally Caster servants, but it can also be others). The quality of circuits has greatly diminished since then and people that are born in modern society have less/lower quality magic circuits(which are essentially channels of mana) than their ancestors. If old celtic and druid magic still exists, then it would fall under modern magecraft simply for still existing in the current era...because it's the modern version of what it was in the past. I think.

Xel , The One Eyed Bandit
Opinions from my Fate experts?

Mostly on point, but not even Casters have True Magic. Medea for example uses Magecraft, but is so powerful in comparison to modern Magus because of how much higher in quality Magecraft was back then, because as Magecraft becomes more widespread, it also becomes weaker since the Mystery of it is lowered as a result.

True Magic is a set of five I think specific types of Magic that one can achieve by reaching the Root. The Second, Third, and Fifth have been discovered, which are dimension hopping, something do to with souls that i'm not really sure about because I haven't seen Heaven's Feel, and time travel. There also tends to only be like, one user of each True Magic at a time.

A simple thing is, true magic, or 'magic' for simplicity sake, literally isn't used in fate. For RP purposes it's generally easier to just straight ban it, with the only exceptions being for certain servants (Merlin was one of the few capable of using true magic, so when I RPed him in a RP I was given the exception to use limited magic). When it comes to Masters it's just easier to say 'no magic'.

But really, then you come down to 'whats the difference'. When you cut away all of Fate's bullshit and fluff the only real difference between magic and mage craft is, with magic, you essentially have absolutely zero rules. You can just do whatever you want within your sphere of magic. You can pull any bullshit out of your ass. Whereas with Magecraft it's diverse, but fairly set in stone.

So for a Master that uses charms and specific spells, that's just magecraft. You use a specific charm, done in a specific way, to induce a specific effect. You can think of magecraft as science, and magic as actual 'it's magic I aint gotta explain shit'. Because magecraft can be replicated. That charm will always induce that effect, it will never give you a different effect because that isn't what it's "programmed" to do.

TL; DR, for practical RP terms Magecraft is just a list of specific spells with specific functions, whereas Magic just lets you asspull whatever you want.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

A simple thing is, true magic, or 'magic' for simplicity sake, literally isn't used in fate. For RP purposes it's generally easier to just straight ban it, with the only exceptions being for certain servants (Merlin was one of the few capable of using true magic, so when I RPed him in a RP I was given the exception to use limited magic). When it comes to Masters it's just easier to say 'no magic'.

But really, then you come down to 'whats the difference'. When you cut away all of Fate's bullshit and fluff the only real difference between magic and mage craft is, with magic, you essentially have absolutely zero rules. You can just do whatever you want within your sphere of magic. You can pull any bullshit out of your ass. Whereas with Magecraft it's diverse, but fairly set in stone.

So for a Master that uses charms and specific spells, that's just magecraft. You use a specific charm, done in a specific way, to induce a specific effect. You can think of magecraft as science, and magic as actual 'it's magic I aint gotta explain shit'. Because magecraft can be replicated. That charm will always induce that effect, it will never give you a different effect because that isn't what it's "programmed" to do.

TL; DR, for practical RP terms Magecraft is just a list of specific spells with specific functions, whereas Magic just lets you asspull whatever you want.

Magic is actually used in Fate, but only once. Esso spoilers to say when.

Another tidbit I forgot is that Magic is uh, 'shrinking', so to speak. If something is achievable through Science or Magecraft, then it stops being able to be achieved through Magic. What's important about this is that, so long as something is classed as Magic within Nasulore, it can't be achieved through any other means. I.E, you can't time travel or dimension hop.

 

[Xel]

Magic is actually used in Fate, but only once. Esso spoilers to say when.

Another tidbit I forgot is that Magic is uh, 'shrinking', so to speak. If something is achievable through Science or Magecraft, then it stops being able to be achieved through Magic. What's important about this is that, so long as something is classed as Magic within Nasulore, it can't be achieved through any other means. I.E, you can't time travel or dimension hop.

That's why I said for simplicity sake. As far as rping in Fate is concerned, magic shouldn't ever be a concern.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

That's why I said for simplicity sake. As far as rping in Fate is concerned, magic shouldn't ever be a concern.

Nasulore is already hard enough to navigate, I don't wanna even risk contributing to confusing someone even more.

 

[Xel]

Nasulore is already hard enough to navigate, I don't wanna even risk contributing to confusing someone even more.

That's why I try to cut it out. Magic isn't relevant to Fate RP, so just leave it as a simple "don't worry about it". When you talk about the five root magics, or the mysteries of the world, and all that yada yada nasubullshit it just adds to the confusion over something that will never be relevant in the RP.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

That's why I try to cut it out. Magic isn't relevant to Fate RP, so just leave it as a simple "don't worry about it". When you talk about the five root magics, or the mysteries of the world, and all that yada yada nasubullshit it just adds to the confusion over something that will never be relevant in the RP.

I prefer to simplify it rather than cut it out. Better to give a house a basic foundation than no foundation, or something like that, imo.

 

[Xel]

I prefer to simplify it rather than cut it out. Better to give a house a basic foundation than no foundation, or something like that, imo.

Not terrible, only thing is for Fate RP you're giving that foundation in an adjacent lot that will never have anything built on it. So if a foundation will never be used, why waste time and energy building it?

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Not terrible, only thing is for Fate RP you're giving that foundation in an adjacent lot that will never have anything built on it. So if a foundation will never be used, why waste time and energy building it?

Cause it makes me feel better.

 

[Xel]

Cause it makes me feel better.

As long as you're happy, build away.

 

[GasMaskie]

No, spells and charms are magecraft. Magecraft has a lot of variety. Runes, charms, spells, chants, etc. I'd say it's even more various than past magics. The ritual to summon servants, for example, is basically magecraft. However, in terms of strength, magecraft doesn't compare to true magic.

The mystery in the modern world is severely less than that of the past. Gods no longer exist. The only ones who can use true magic are the ones who have experienced it in the past, who lived in an era where the mystery was higher (generally Caster servants, but it can also be others). The quality of circuits has greatly diminished since then and people that are born in modern society have less/lower quality magic circuits(which are essentially channels of mana) than their ancestors. If old celtic and druid magic still exists, then it would fall under modern magecraft simply for still existing in the current era...because it's the modern version of what it was in the past. I think.

Xel , The One Eyed Bandit
Opinions from my Fate experts?

But can magecraft explain why so many famous historical figures were actually cute girls?

 

[Idea]

But can magecraft explain why so many famous historical figures were actually cute girls?

The great art of animancy

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Mostly on point, but not even Casters have True Magic. Medea for example uses Magecraft, but is so powerful in comparison to modern Magus because of how much higher in quality Magecraft was back then, because as Magecraft becomes more widespread, it also becomes weaker since the Mystery of it is lowered as a result.

True Magic is a set of five I think specific types of Magic that one can achieve by reaching the Root. The Second, Third, and Fifth have been discovered, which are dimension hopping, something do to with souls that i'm not really sure about because I haven't seen Heaven's Feel, and time travel. There also tends to only be like, one user of each True Magic at a time.

I've always likened true magic to miracles. If we take Mystery to what it literally means, it's stuff that can't be explained. There are no rules to them as Xel said. No chants, spells, rituals, procedures, etc. True magic being separated into a set of 5 (with only 3 having been discovered) is a rule. I imagine it to be basically what modern mages describe to be examples of 'true magic'...i.e. things that they can't explain/replicate that have been documented to still exist in the modern world. Because every era seems to have that 1 in a bajillion special snowflake. A true prophet. A messiah. Someone whose's reached the 'root' of the world and understands completely how it works when they shouldn't be able to. Comprehends the 4th dimension even when they live in the 3rd dimension...which is how I like to describe true magic in comparison to magecraft. 4th dimension is a theory. People just figure something of the like should exist, based on the laws that they have already discovered. Magecraft is likened to science in the modern world to mages.

So then, is the magic number 5 something that magic theorists came up with or did the Naruverse creator actually say that there are 5 types true magics and that's the law of the world? Just curious, btw. I don't wanna break lore too badly.

A simple thing is, true magic, or 'magic' for simplicity sake, literally isn't used in fate. For RP purposes it's generally easier to just straight ban it, with the only exceptions being for certain servants (Merlin was one of the few capable of using true magic, so when I RPed him in a RP I was given the exception to use limited magic). When it comes to Masters it's just easier to say 'no magic'.

But really, then you come down to 'whats the difference'. When you cut away all of Fate's bullshit and fluff the only real difference between magic and mage craft is, with magic, you essentially have absolutely zero rules. You can just do whatever you want within your sphere of magic. You can pull any bullshit out of your ass. Whereas with Magecraft it's diverse, but fairly set in stone.

So for a Master that uses charms and specific spells, that's just magecraft. You use a specific charm, done in a specific way, to induce a specific effect. You can think of magecraft as science, and magic as actual 'it's magic I aint gotta explain shit'. Because magecraft can be replicated. That charm will always induce that effect, it will never give you a different effect because that isn't what it's "programmed" to do.

TL; DR, for practical RP terms Magecraft is just a list of specific spells with specific functions, whereas Magic just lets you asspull whatever you want.

Too late.

I've already allowed DCaster an EX NP that is basically true magic within a set of conditions. Some servants have NPs/skills that are a bit like true magic. Psychic powers = no chants, spells, circuits. I think it, therefore it exists. Sounds kinda like true magic to me. But not, because it's not magic.

You can asspull magecraft too. The only thing is that it's 'magecraft' instead of 'true magic'.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

So then, is the magic number 5 something that magic theorists came up with or did the Naruverse creator actually say that there are 5 types true magics and that's the law of the world? Just curious, btw.

A little bit of both. All Five Magics have existed at some point in history, but we as the readers only know about three of them. There's, in lore, a theorized Sixth Magic (kind of like how, as you mentioned, the fourth dimension is a theory), but it's only a theory.

 

[Equusheart]

Lol wow I ask a seemingly small question and I get all this information back Thank you guys! Cookies all around! This will work perfectly with what I have in mind for my character.

Also, on Fate/ Zero I'm like 9 or 10 episodes in. Loving it! Do.Not.Like.Caster!

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Do.Not.Like.Caster!

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL