[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] Projects Discussion

[cyl]

There are two ways of limiting WST which work perfectly with the charm description.


1- you have to be inside the Wyld (which requires a dangerous and exciting expedition)


2- the things you can create are limited by the amount of Wyld energies avaiable. "This Charm forces a region of chaos to take form as the Exalt commands", which means that once the region has taken its desired shape, then it's no longer a region and you can no longer us its wyld energy.


I often use the second myself, because it's more open and gives ways to interesting plots revolving around Wyld Spots in Creation.


But if you think about it it's only logical.


If you have the equivalent of a teacup of wyld energie, then maybe you can shape a dagger or a bird.


If you have the equivalent of a small pond, then maybe you can turn it into a loyal horse or a lover.


And if you have the equivalent of a river, then perhaps you can raise an army or a massive warship.


It's all about volumes... and the craziest clay ever.

 

[CrazyIvan]

I often use the second myself, because it's more open and gives ways to interesting plots revolving around Wyld Spots in Creation.


But if you think about it it's only logical.


If you have the equivalent of a teacup of wyld energie, then maybe you can shape a dagger or a bird.


If you have the equivalent of a small pond, then maybe you can turn it into a loyal horse or a lover.


And if you have the equivalent of a river, then perhaps you can raise an army or a massive warship.


It's all about volumes.

"If you think about it, it's only logical" and "The Wyld" should never go together.

 

[JayTee]

I don't really see how it would diminish the influence of the other PCs. I'm just the R&D guy. All my superweapons and robot armies are worthless without the other PCs to actually use them.


To your second point, I'm almost 100% certain that that's exactly what First Age Twilights did. It's not just Wyld Shaping Technique that's letting me Craft stuff, it's Craftsmen Needs No Tools, Wonder Forging Genius and Design Beyond Limit that's doing the heavy lifting. All Craft Charms. Wyld Shaping is just providing me with all the raw resources.

 

[JayTee]

Yeah, I'm with CrazyIvan on that. A piece of Wyld the size of your fist can be shaped in to something the size of a skyscraper. It has no rules to follow.

 

[CrazyIvan]

I'm gonna say, generally, that I support Xarvh being cautious about crafting. It's part of the game that's both potentially game breaking and has *really* poorly developed rules around it.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Yeah, I'm with CrazyIvan on that. A piece of Wyld the size of your fist can be shaped in to something the size of a skyscraper. It has no rules to follow.

My primary thought is how hard it should be to figure out what you need.


"Huh. Turns out what the hull needed was two ounces of 'The first kiss of a lover returned from sea', three acres of 'The feel of a newborn kitten's fur' and a dash of 'raw, untempered hatred' as paint. Weird."

 

[JayTee]

While I agree that Crafting can break the setting, I would also like to point out that the purpose of Solars is to break the setting. It's one of their major narrative schticks.


EDIT: That's apart of the planning phase of Crafting.

 

[xarvh]

JayTee, don't get me wrong.


I want you to build that ship.


Because it's going to be awesome and it's what I expect from any Twilight.


I just want to make it challenging.


That's my ST job. I make things challenging.


In turn, these things will allow you to do even more challenging shit that you couldn't have dreamed without, such as attacking Tirana or the Mask.

 

[xarvh]

The Gate will allow you to work without materials. But this means that, for example, you will have to build the parts in the Wyld and then assemble them out of the Gate.


Or just build it and then sail forth through the Wyld with some of the other PCs.


Or whatever.


There is plenty of creative solutions.

 

[CrazyIvan]

While I agree that Crafting can break the setting, I would also like to point out that the purpose of Solars is to break the setting. It's one of their major narrative schticks.
EDIT: That's apart of the planning phase of Crafting.

Said game, not setting

 

[JayTee]

I think we might have had a failure of communication/expectation, then. My whole goal with setting up the Wyld portal, and later on with building a Factory Cathedral, is to make it very easy to pump out very powerful pieces of Magitech.


I suppose I can build the pieces of the Ship in the Wyld and then move them through the portal and assemble it like a set of Legos. That also puts the magitech engineers to use as they can assist in the assembly.


(For the price of 999,999,999.99, you can have your very own Mega Warship! Some Assembly Required.)

 

[CrazyIvan]

So I cannot find the information for the airship formally, because it was buried in some PMs on another forum, and since then I've archived it, and my workstation is in a box somewhere in my living room. But basically, the idea was a "Skywolf-Plus" class ship, more like a First Age Aegis-class cruiser or other "Flagship of a fast escort group" type ship, rather than something like the Iowa.


It was called the "Sword of Vanileth"


Basically, about the same speed as Skywolf, 68/140mph, with the requirement of three level-3+ hearthstones in the command console and the commitment of 5 motes from 5 members of the crew. Same repair requirements, reduced cargo capacity - four internally protected warstriders or warstrider-sized objects (think certain Lunars, warbirds, etc).


Armament was something like four lightning ballistae, six medium implosion bows, ten light implosion bows, and a haze shield. And importantly, it was actually carrying all of them, unlike the Skywolf which is likely pretty underarmed compared to ideal. Boosted harnness and the like to make it more durable as well.


That ship rests in the "Pretty much the most powerful thing in the sky", pretty much capable of taking on Skywolf, downing anything the Realm can field, and tearing apart the Haslanti League like rag-dolls. Making it more powerful, I'd probably add a pair of heavy lightning ballistae, one bow and one stern mounted for the BB look.


I found that it rested rather comfortably in the "Powerful, but not so powerful as to mean the rest of the party doesn't need to show". And it has a heavy manpower requirement, what with a primarily Dragon Blooded crew, a flight of Essence-user piloted artifacts in the hold, and lots and lots of Essence weapons. If we wanted to reduce that, we Fangs and Siham could likely collaborate on a Demon-gun system. For the moment that might reassure her, as Siham isn't a sorcerer and that would mean her withdrawing her support would, at the very least, somewhat defang the battleship.


Because she's paranoid like that.

 

[xarvh]

Yup.


Also, unless you find a different way to power the thing, just keeping it in the sky will require at least a Heartstone.


And the requirements will increase with performance.


BTW, as far as I can tell all the relevant flying vessels in the DotFA are Artifact: N/A.


I'd still prefer to use something canon as template and then modify the shit out of it to figure out exactly what Siham wants.

 

[CrazyIvan]

BTW, as far as I can tell all the relevant flying vessels in the DotFA are Artifact: N/A.


I'd still prefer to use something canon as template and then modify the shit out of it to figure out exactly what Siham wants.

They are - and mine is a modified K-something Assault Boat, or whatever name it was.

 

[JayTee]

Currently my plan to power it is to build an engine for the ship in place of Hearthstones. Siham puts 30 of his own motes in to the engine for fuel, and that lasts it for a several weeks, maybe a month or so. As a safety feature, it'll be Keyed to Sihams Essence and wont accept any others, except for those who Siham approves.


Failing that. Essence Capacitor Gems with a similar safety net. Basically the same thing as hearthstones, but without the need for a Manse.

 

[xarvh]

We'll decide motes needed once we'll know the specs.

 

[cyl]

Currently my plan to power it is to build an engine for the ship in place of Hearthstones. Siham puts 30 of his own motes in to the engine for fuel, and that lasts it for a several weeks, maybe a month or so. As a safety feature, it'll be Keyed to Sihams Essence and wont accept any others, except for those who Siham approves.
Failing that. Essence Capacitor Gems with a similar safety net. Basically the same thing as hearthstones, but without the need for a Manse.

IIRC big thing like that requires indeed that much essence to take off.


You can substitute your motes to a HS, but it's a heavy price to pay for power.


Essence batteries or HS are a better option. Especially since you can combo: craft domain in the bordermarches + building a manse on top of it (with a little demonic help).


Typically this could be treated as a project (IIRC that's how Fangs got hers).


It's almost a crying shame to have to spend PP just to power a ship... but on the other hand do we really want to enter a battle at -30m ?


'cause that didn't end very well for me last time :tongue:

 

[Arynne]

I keep saying we should genetically engineer giant hawks -- that way even mortals will be able to fly them -- but nooo...

 

[cyl]

Well there are pros & cons for each type of air division.


Hawks are silent, numerous and agile, but they are fragile and can't really pack serious firepower, plus each one requires a pilot, and when the hawk goes down, so does the pilot.


Ships are sturdy sons of bitches carrying A LOT of firepower, but they are really not discrete (unless you built them to be) usually are slower and less maneuverable than Hawks.


Nothing indicates that we can't have both though.


That way we get the best of both worlds...

 

[cyl]

Also... Malek would be A LOT faster with a flying mount.

 

[JayTee]

I did plan on building robo-hawks with laser eyes to act as the Jet fighters to an aircraft carrier I'm going to build

 

[cyl]

God help us all

 

[Arynne]

Plus, giant fliers that are not robotic have the advantage of being self-reproducing.

 

[xarvh]

Why having jet hawks when you can have T-Rex on an F16?

 

[JayTee]

@Arynne: Fair point. I'll genesis up some giant hawks and slap some magitech on them.


@xarvh: Well, a Jet fighter is statted up in Shards...