Danganronpa: The Tragedy

[Ammokkx]

(read my EDIT in the previous post.)

Yeah. I know. I was just pointing out that, in the information available to me, that was the most logical conclusion.


And I still don't know about the letter. I checked, and it was written by Monokumada. Tanaka didn't write that, so it's irrelevant.

 

[Dreamtique]

And I still don't know about the letter. I checked, and it was written by Monokumada. Tanaka didn't write that, so it's irrelevant.

We cannot exclude the possibility of someone faking the letter until we can confirm it, so that point is not convincing enough.


EDIT: A more convincing point however, will be able to not only proof that the murder is not planned and is also able to proof that the letter is indeed written by Monokumada, as there is no way the murderer can be faking the letter as part of her "plan".


We branch off from the trunk, you may snap if you start off from the twigs.

 

[Dreamtique]

Spoiler

So......maybe we can say that why the murderer didn't bring along any of the handy weapons provided to everyone with her if she was really planning to kill in the first place. That may be more convincing?


[spoiler/]


@Ammokkx

 

[Ammokkx]

Spoiler

So......maybe we can say that why the murderer didn't bring along any of the handy weapons provided to everyone with her if she was really planning to kill in the first place. That may be more convincing?


[spoiler/]


@Ammokkx

That's not convincing in the slightest. At least it's not to me.

 

[Dreamtique]

That's not convincing in the slightest. At least it's not to me.

Then, try to come up with a good argument maybe? Why the murderer didn't bring along weapons and use them to murder her victim? It's all about arguing anyway.


@Ammokkx

 

[Dreamtique]

Hm, now I noticed the flaws of the posting rule, we can't do a continueous argument on it. And the post limit is kinda scary too, heh.

 

[Ammokkx]

Then, try to come up with a good argument maybe? Why the murderer didn't bring along weapons and to use them to murder her victim? It's all about arguing anyway.
@Ammokkx

Because if you brought along weapons, we could just inspect your weapons box to see what's missing.

 

[Dreamtique]

Because if you brought along weapons, we could just inspect your weapons box to see what's missing.

A good argument, but still.


It would be impossible for us to investigate the weapon box, as stated by Kiseichu senpai, they should know each student's room is private, regardless.


Even if they do not bring along the weapons in the box, they should really consider bringing a weapon of any sort, perhaps a metal pipe or anything that could be used as a weapon especially when their physical ability is not as good.


Any weapon would surely be better than relying on merely a piece of mirror from an unbroken mirror that is waiting to be broken by accident or "luck" as the weapon to kill. It will be too irrational for one to be planning to kill a person with bare hand when they lack physical strength, creating minor bruises on her victim's body that are not fatal repeatedly, and rely on breaking the mirror "accidentally" during her attempt to murder and hoping that the broken mirror shards will be perfect for murdering. It doesn't quite make sense in that way, I think.


@Ammokkx


EDIT: *Facepalm* I like how our stands are completely reversed now......

 

[Ammokkx]

A good argument, but still.
It would be impossible for us to investigate the weapon box, as stated by Kiseichu senpai, they should know each student's room is private, regardless.


Even if they do not bring along the weapons in the box, they should really consider bringing a weapon of any sort, perhaps a metal pipe or anything that could be used as a weapon especially when their physical ability is not as good.


Any weapon would surely be better than relying on merely a piece of mirror from an unbroken mirror that is waiting to be broken by accident or "luck", as the weapon to kill. It will be too irrational for one to be planning to kill a person with bare hand when they lack physical strength, creating minor bruises on her body that are not fatal repeatedly, and rely on breaking the mirror "accidentally" during her attempt to murder and hoping that the broken mirror shards will be perfect for murdering. It doesn't quite make sense in that way, I think.

...Yeah. I also had Yaeger point out that, if Tanaka were the killer, she wouldn't even need a weapon in the first place since she'd overpower Kyoko with ease. And there was a weapon at the scene, a knife. Aloutte testified to picking it up.

 

[Ryik]

We know the murder took place in the bathroom, and that there's one culprit.


We know there was a struggle. The plausibility of Kyoko ripping hair out doesn't matter. Kyoko may have paper skin and glass bones, she still would have been able to rip out locks of hair while being suplexed.


There was a struggle. Why was there a struggle? If you're trying to assassinate someone, they generally can't fight back, unless the killer had to use their bare hands or something to do it.


Isn't the logical conclusion that the murder wasn't pre-meditated? Monokumada predicted that the first murder would occur, but he could have just coaxed someone into it.


Since we saw Kyoko's moment of death, we know that the two locks of hair weren't planted on her dead body, and thus Kyoko had to have took them of her own volition.


They both smelled of ammonia. Therefore, they were both dyed.


We found a single strand of dark blue hair that wasn't dyed. We have nothing connecting it to the scene of the crime besides the dark blue hair dye that Tanaka couldn't have used. There's no point to using it after all. If she wanted to dye her hair to disguise herself, she could have just dyed it completely violet instead of leaving two colors of hair at the crime scene.


Alex just posed the question: Isn't there no other way for it to happen, than for the killer to have dyed their hair two colors before the murder?


We didn't find any wigs in the investigation after all. This would be the most sensible conclusion.


My question, then, is that if the murder wasn't pre-meditated, why did the killer dye their hair two colors?

 

[Dreamtique]

...Yeah. I also had Yaeger point out that, if Tanaka were the killer, she wouldn't even need a weapon in the first place since she'd overpower Kyoko with ease. And there was a weapon at the scene, a knife. Aloutte testified to picking it up.

Although there is a knife found at the crime scene, but the bloody knife was not used at any point of the murder.


Yoko confirmed that the mirror shard is the murder weapon, and explained how the bloody knife is not used during any point of the fight, yet it is still bloody(indicating that it was possibly a "fake" evidence, somehow).


Also, you do brought up a very good point here, there are actually proofs that indicate that the murderer is not a professional fighter that you never pointed out.


If the murderer was physically capable, then Kyoko wouldn't even be able to pull off her attacker's hair.


And there is another crucial point that we can use to proof that the murderer is not and cannot be a capable fighter, the bruise on Michio's face (proof that Tanaka Rin is capable of creating more severe injury than the bruises found on Kyoko's body) and the minor bruises found on Kyoko's body.


How the minor bruises are created are all over Kyoko's body indicated that the fighter is not a pro. A pro would go straight for the killing blow.


EDIT: Ah, sorry, you do pointed that out.


@Ammokkx

 

[Ammokkx]

I'm just going to point out


Ripping out an entire lock of hair is painful, hard and requires one hell of a pull. It also needs a good grip, and you'd basically instantly notice on a glance someone has had their hair torn out. There's also a high chance of bleeding. Strands of hair are easy, but when bunched up it's nigh on impossible.


I speak from experience.

 

[Ryik]

We never really got details on the thickness of those locks of hair.


Assuming it doesn't really matter, (which I would imagine would be why it wasn't mentioned) it was probably pulled out with relative ease, no more than a dozen or two strands.

 

[Dreamtique]

I'm just going to point out
Ripping out an entire lock of hair is painful, hard and requires one hell of a pull. It also needs a good grip, and you'd basically instantly notice on a glance someone has had their hair torn out. There's also a high chance of bleeding. Strands of hair are easy, but when bunched up it's nigh on impossible.


I speak from experience.

Ah, yeah, it's a fact that when hair bundled up it could support the whole weight of the person, it's supposed to be very strong, but the description of how many hairs are in "the lock of hairs" are kinda ambiguous, we can't really say much on that.


Pff! Hehe...I dunno(to be honest I kinda support you here), ask the murderer how painful it is. Human do make mistakes sometimes. *blink*

I speak from experience.

And...what???!! You experienced terrible things like that??!!

 

[Ammokkx]

Alex just posed the question: Isn't there no other way for it to happen, than for the killer to have dyed their hair two colors before the murder?

Oh, also. This thought had crossed my mind before, but I thought it more logical conclusion was them dying it out of their original color and still running around dyed. That would make a hair dye bottle be missing, though.

Ah, yeah, it's a fact that when hair bundled up it could support the whole weight of the person, it's supposed to be very strong, but the description of how many hairs are in "the lock of hairs" are kinda ambiguous, we can't really say much on that.
Pff! Hehe...I dunno(to be honest I kinda support you here), ask the murderer how painful it is. Human do make mistakes sometimes. *blink*


And...what???!! You experienced terrible things like that??!!

A 'lock' of hair is more than plenty to be amazingly stupidly hard to pull out. And yes, I'm a dude who's hair is down to his back and have had hair pulled out of my head before. Not pleasant.


Otherwise it'd have to say a couple of strands, but Kiseichu clearly said a lock. For them to be able to hold on to it tightly, it also needs to be bundled up quite thickly.

 

[Dreamtique]

And yes, I'm a dude who's hair is down to his back and have had hair pulled out of my head before. Not pleasant.

Ack!!! That should be terribly painful. Maybe that's why they all say I shouldn't keep my emo hair.

Otherwise it'd have to say a couple of strands, but Kiseichu clearly said a lock. For them to be able to hold on to it tightly, it also needs to be bundled up quite thickly.

Yep...again, human do make mistakes......

 

[Ryik]

Oh, also. This thought had crossed my mind before, but I thought it more logical conclusion was them dying it out of their original color and still running around dyed. That would make a hair dye bottle be missing, though.
A 'lock' of hair is more than plenty to be amazingly stupidly hard to pull out. And yes, I'm a dude who's hair is down to his back and have had hair pulled out of my head before. Not pleasant.


Otherwise it'd have to say a couple of strands, but Kiseichu clearly said a lock. For them to be able to hold on to it tightly, it also needs to be bundled up quite thickly.

Why not put the dye in their room where no one can see it? I don't understand why we found the dark blue dye in the first place.


Regarding the difficulty of ripping out hair, it depends on the hair, and even its current state. Natural oils keep hair harder to pull out (because of a lack of grip) than just after it's washed and dried. The health of the hair has an impact as well, which, if the person is no stranger to dyes, may not be optimal.


Of course, there's also the possibility that it wasn't meant to matter at all, to @Kiseichu's fault or otherwise. That seems most likely to me.

 

[Ammokkx]

Why not put the dye in their room where no one can see it? I don't understand why we found the dark blue dye in the first place.
Regarding the difficulty of ripping out hair, it depends on the hair, and even its current state. Natural oils keep hair harder to pull out (because of a lack of grip) than just after it's washed and dried. The health of the hair has an impact as well, which, if the person is no stranger to dyes, may not be optimal.


Of course, there's also the possibility that it wasn't meant to matter at all, to @Kiseichu's fault or otherwise. That seems most likely to me.

Even if the hair isn't healthy, I can still imagine a lot of force needing to be put behind it. But I'll concede that, if the hair wasn't in good shape, it would have been possible to rip it out. Maybe that's a question we ask monokumada?

 

[Dreamtique]

Even if the hair isn't healthy, I can still imagine a lot of force needing to be put behind it. But I'll concede that, if the hair wasn't in good shape, it would have been possible to rip it out. Maybe that's a question we ask monokumada?

Healthy or unhealthy hair? What will that imply then?

 

[Ammokkx]

Healthy or unhealthy hair? What will that imply then?

It would confirm if the hair could had been pulled out or fallen out, or if it was strictly something that was left by the killer.

 

[Ryik]

Are you talking about the naturally dark blue hair? The colored hair Kyoko was holding was undeniably pulled out, and there wasn't really time for the killer to leave it behind. Even if they did, why leave two hair colors? If you're trying to frame someone, you'd generally only leave one.


Kiseichu didn't mention locks of hair on the other one, so the naturally dark blue strand found on the second floor probably just fell out.

 

[Ammokkx]

@Kiseichu Would you mind making a diagram of where everyone is placed in the courtroom? Or let someone else do so? I think it'd be easier to visualize it that way.

 

[Ryik]

It did make sense to accuse the people with dark blue hair as Zavier possessed it too. She then looked at Tanaka and Zavier and asked.

​

"Would you guys mind if the person beside you smelled your hair? Can we do that? It could clear the suspicion, but it could help with a concern of mine."

​

I'd like to point out that Zavier's hair is only suspect for the strand found on the second floor.


The locks of hair Kyoko was holding were too long to be Zavier's. (or any other male save Nao) Therefore, it doesn't really matter if Zavier's hair smelled.

 

[Lady Midnight]

That is true. I just wanted to see if we could cross out any potential suspects, although as I think about it now there was no point in asking Zavier. Also do you think it would be possible if the culprit dyed their hair from violet to dark blue and then back to violet?

 

[Dreamtique]

Um, quick question, actually, who have violet hairs?


@Kiseichu