Viewpoint Controversial themes in writing/RP

[A Sparkling Zombie]

Sometimes I like exploring gray areas, messy truths, and ugliness. Sometimes I also like creating awful characters, or at least "awful" relative to the usual concepts players develop. I think originally it spawned from a desire to create some kind of IC drama in groups where any character's worst flaws were being blunt or a klutz, before coming to the understanding that the people who make those characters usually aren't looking for the same things in roleplay that I am. Now I think it's more because I like to use it as a way to work out things, seeing how certain bad ideals, actions, and traits influence that character's life.

Often that means rounding out awful characters and not always portraying them as scum - not because I want them to be condoned/forgiven/accepted/whatever, but because, as the saying goes, every antagonist is their own hero, and every person is, for better or worse, still human at the end of the day.

So, sometimes I have played homophobes, sexists, murderers, toxic masculinity, and other unsavory things, and I don't mind people playing similar concepts if the understanding is that we're just telling a story and exploring characters. It's an entirely different thing to be glorifying controversies or using roleplay as a platform to promote toxic ideas.

But I also sometimes like to avoid prejudice, too - just cut out homophobia from the story and simply let the gays be, even if it sometimes means bending reality, sometimes for the escapism, but mostly because I want to explore other themes and conflicts without having to give nods to prejudice every time.

 

[AaronMk]

It takes a lot of tact to tackle big themes; and it's understandable anyone would want to avoid doing it. Though at some point someone may try and discover they fucked it up so hard they retreat from it. But because bigotry and class can be big aspects that inform a character's decision making at a meta level, once you feel like you're able to attempt it you should give it a go as a part of character creation and how that interacts with whatever else is going on.

 

[k0arr]

It’s pretty situational. I’m sure this is just a repeat conglomerate of previous answers but-

Everyone has their limits and everyone handles difficult topics in their own way.

For me, deciding to write and share in creativity is often a vulnerable space. For this space to work we both need an understanding of each others limits and how dark themes are presented and handled.

I’m perfectly fine exploring the oppressions I face as a gay trans masc individual through writing and often this can be therapeutic. But that’s just me. And I am far different from my friends who are different from their friends and so on.

I don’t think there’s one correct way to approach these topics and trying to piece together a singular moral ground is impossible when in discussion with so many people from so many walks.

Be mindful and tactful and respectful of the people you write with and their boundaries while also advocating for your own. Also consider the point of the writing. Is it meant as a way to cope and alleviate the feelings prevelant in the real world? Is it simply being used as a character flaw?

And if you find the person you’re writing with is not compatible, find a way to assert your needs again or find another.

 

[snicker_sage]

I do not mind exploring most terms, in fact, it really helped me to explore my past experiences and dealing with the trauma better.

 

[caramelisedbrownsugar]

When it comes to themes that are controversial and a wish to explore such themes in writing/RP, I think its important to discuss with your RP partner beforehand on how to portray such scenes respectfully and confirm that all parties are agreeable to being open with topics that are sensitive, and if it reaches a certain point where anyone may be uncomfortable with the level of portrayal, to call it off.

There are many ways to discuss such issues in depth, but its important to ensure that everyone remains respectful and understanding that works do not necessarily mean the author condones actions that are harmful to others, nor does it mean they deserved to get attacked for writing about controversial issues.

I feel like in the age we currently live in, people are quick to jump to conclusions and critic/insult others for their works, and it becomes worse when a majority of users will hop on a bandwagon without a thought of what will happen after. It's happened over and over in every website, with works written to portray a topic in negative light, only for the author to get bashed with baseless accusations stating they support said topic although their writing says otherwise.

Separating art from the creator is possible, there are numerous depictions in art where a character smokes, (albeit a "harmless" example to use), but the creator of the art discourages smoking and doesn't smoke. Art is made for entertainment but also to spread awareness, and the content of art doesn't speak for the artist's own opinion on matters that are otherwise complicated and nuanced.

 

[Jannah]

When it comes to themes that are controversial and a wish to explore such themes in writing/RP, I think its important to discuss with your RP partner beforehand on how to portray such scenes respectfully and confirm that all parties are agreeable to being open with topics that are sensitive, and if it reaches a certain point where anyone may be uncomfortable with the level of portrayal, to call it off.

There are many ways to discuss such issues in depth, but its important to ensure that everyone remains respectful and understanding that works do not necessarily mean the author condones actions that are harmful to others, nor does it mean they deserved to get attacked for writing about controversial issues.

I feel like in the age we currently live in, people are quick to jump to conclusions and critic/insult others for their works, and it becomes worse when a majority of users will hop on a bandwagon without a thought of what will happen after. It's happened over and over in every website, with works written to portray a topic in negative light, only for the author to get bashed with baseless accusations stating they support said topic although their writing says otherwise.

Separating art from the creator is possible, there are numerous depictions in art where a character smokes, (albeit a "harmless" example to use), but the creator of the art discourages smoking and doesn't smoke. Art is made for entertainment but also to spread awareness, and the content of art doesn't speak for the artist's own opinion on matters that are otherwise complicated and nuanced.

This is very well-said actually. Writing has always been a medium in which to explore different ideas and even speak out against injustices in society, thus it's inevitable that some sensitive subjects will be explored. Sure, not everyone is into that and it's their right, but writing a homophobic character for example does not mean the writer is a homophobe.

 

[caramelisedbrownsugar]

This is very well-said actually. Writing has always been a medium in which to explore different ideas and even speak out against injustices in society, thus it's inevitable that some sensitive subjects will be explored. Sure, not everyone is into that and it's their right, but writing a homophobic character for example does not mean the writer is a homophobe.

I can’t agree more! If art as a whole form was restricted to only being morally correct, I feel like it would heavily stunt peoples’ ability to critically think, as well as understand that exploration of more sensitive isn’t inherently negative, as it can actually help you reflect and grow as a person, by truly understanding the circumstances around situations that help influence your opinion over things.

Different and unique ideas doesn’t mean they don’t have merit, and its always worth a shot to be open-minded and learn more about the world, just to navigate situations with more tact and understanding than you would have before such discussions.

People are entitled to their own opinions, and if they don’t wish to broach topics that are sensitive for them, they don’t need to. I think it really boils down to people just respecting each other for being people, and learning where to draw the line when it comes to certain things.

 

[Jannah]

I can’t agree more! If art as a whole form was restricted to only being morally correct, I feel like it would heavily stunt peoples’ ability to critically think, as well as understand that exploration of more sensitive isn’t inherently negative, as it can actually help you reflect and grow as a person, by truly understanding the circumstances around situations that help influence your opinion over things.

Different and unique ideas doesn’t mean they don’t have merit, and its always worth a shot to be open-minded and learn more about the world, just to navigate situations with more tact and understanding than you would have before such discussions.

People are entitled to their own opinions, and if they don’t wish to broach topics that are sensitive for them, they don’t need to. I think it really boils down to people just respecting each other for being people, and learning where to draw the line when it comes to certain things.

Yes. Let's just say there's reasons why authoritarian regimes throughout history have banned books. Words do have power, whether people realize it or not.

 

[snicker_sage]

This is very well-said actually. Writing has always been a medium in which to explore different ideas and even speak out against injustices in society, thus it's inevitable that some sensitive subjects will be explored. Sure, not everyone is into that and it's their right, but writing a homophobic character for example does not mean the writer is a homophobe.

People sincerely need to separate the fiction from reality, and fast.

Someone who is writing as a criminal, doesn't mean he or she is that in real life, unless if it's proven with proofs and rational speaking.

In a society of false-accusations, people should know better.

 

[Jet]

I think everyone agrees that writing evil bigots is acceptable, but what about normal everyman bigots? I've known racists and yes they have terrible ideas, but one also saved me when my car was broken down. He took an hour to drive me home so I could grab tools from my garage, then drove me back to my broken car, and he refused payment when I offered him money. He also made extremely racist comments when we passed an incident at a gas station, where a black man was being arrested by police.

Bigotry is weird because otherwise good people can be racist. They can support charities and love their children, work at soup kitchens and love animals... and then still be racist. I've written generally evil racists and that was received well, but I wonder how the community would handle grounded racism, where someone can have moments of empathy and heroism, self sacrifice and charity, while also hating those people over there. Take the average soldier during WW2 for example. Those men had moments of heroism we can only dream of replicating, and helped defeat empires of pure evil. Yet most were racist against twenty different groups.

Unlike villainous actions like mass murder and sexual assault, being racist isn't a function of sociopathy or psychopathy. It's not a character condemnation but a character flaw baked into the brain. We know that in-group preference comes from an evolutionary period of competing hominid species, and unfortunately for us, that preference lingered after our competition died out, and it's only defeated by positive exposure to out-groups.

If we look at bigotry as a character flaw instead of a character condemnation, where they become super-hitler in our view, then racism can add a layer of complexity to a morally gray character. The movie Gran Torino was a great example of that complexity, and a great example of character growth and race discussion.

I wonder how the RP community would handle that approach? How would it handle a racist who doesn't walk around killing puppies? Would people claim you're supporting bigots because you don't reduce them to caricatures? I wonder what the people on this thread would say?

Who knows what the reaction would be, but I think it's far more productive than making super-nazis who love killing cats, because the vast majority of racism doesn't come from skinheads with swastika tattoos. It comes from Aunt Becky who baked you apple pies when you were sad, and the friendly mailman who delivers your mail.

 

[Daisie]

I agree with Jet! Though also I want to add my own two cents in that I really personally enjoy humanizing so-called "evil". Not normalizing it, and not romanticizing it, but humanizing.

The roleplay I finished most recently was all about two otherwise good people. They weren't the best people ever - they had a lot of underlying issues - but in society they'd generally be regarded as a bit creepy at worst, and even very loving and affectionate at best. The problem being that that's who they were when they were separate. When they were WITH each other, they literally both spiraled to the point of complete obsession, delusion, manslaughter, killing their pet and just... being horrible people.

But none of that changed the fact that they were still people with feelings. People who USED to be good, and people who spent much of their time sick, paranoid, and crying in each other's arms, trying to find hope.

I think it's easy to label someone as bigoted or evil and just move along guiltlessly, when in reality everyone has a story. This doesn't always excuse their actions, but at the same time, you don't have to be able to excuse someone's actions to have a basic level of empathy and understanding. Humanizing, not condoning.

 

[Merciless Medic]

I wonder how the RP community would handle that approach? How would it handle a racist who doesn't walk around killing puppies? Would people claim you're supporting bigots because you don't reduce them to caricatures? I wonder what the people on this thread would say?

I personally agree with your assessment. Unless you find a group in RpN that are okay or tolerant of it, some people already have a problem with bigotry from personal or secondhand experience to the point where humanizing it could be deemed as condoning it when it's a misconception of your actual intent. You can write something and not condone it at the same time.

But I love the idea. I have actually made a character in a science fantasy setting unironically bigoted towards several groups of people because of how she was brought up in the society around her. That entire society in canon lore doesn't actually believe what they are doing - raiding entire planets and enslaving people - as wrong, even though it is. When questioned on it, they acted like confused children who seemed completely oblivious to the ramifications of their actions. Then, when she was shown by stronger people that might doesn't make right everywhere and enslavement isn't as common as she thought, she had a whole arc where she felt she had to remove herself from an unknowingly toxic mindset.

Bigotry comes from implicit or explicit bias ingrained into us by what we see online, what we hear from friends and family, what nuances we catch from society like subliminal messaging, etc. It can happen to anyone and we might not even realize it until questioned. I knew plenty of good people who had an unfair look on how Mexicans and African Americans were like because of the race percentage of those going to jail or prison. But that can lead to a whole can of worms that I don't want to talk about.

Zootopia made a good example of how implicit bias made Judy Hopps act impulsively to Nick when he got frustrated - she is an herbivore and her family and friend group always talked about how carnivores were scary, specifically foxes. While she does her best to treat everyone equally, Nick's angry reaction made her subconscious fear of him apparent and she pulled out her mace specifically made for carnivores. If she knew Nick more than she did, she would have known he would never hurt her. Foxes were probably also seen as tricksters and delinquents due to their cunning nature, which didn't help. But that is an extremely good example of this specific idea and I don't see it talked about more.

Anyway, that's my two cents.


EDIT: English is hard lmfao

 

[Daisie]

she is a herbivore and her family and friend group always talked about how carnivores were scary.

Not only this, but it's interesting because a huge inciting event to usher her towards BEING a cop was protecting her herbivore friends against a carnivore bully. Getting HURT in the process. Despite her proclamation of equality in all things, that experience was still VERY real and heavily impacted her decisions. In a scene we originally thought was set in order to give an origin to her sense of justice, it actually simultaneously established a reason for a bias, foreshadowing to themes of racism we had barely even touched on by that point in the movie.

Very off topic though XD Just had to gush a sec

 

[Jannah]

I think everyone agrees that writing evil bigots is acceptable, but what about normal everyman bigots? I've known racists and yes they have terrible ideas, but one also saved me when my car was broken down. He took an hour to drive me home so I could grab tools from my garage, then drove me back to my broken car, and he refused payment when I offered him money. He also made extremely racist comments when we passed an incident at a gas station, where a black man was being arrested by police.

Bigotry is weird because otherwise good people can be racist. They can support charities and love their children, work at soup kitchens and love animals... and then still be racist. I've written generally evil racists and that was received well, but I wonder how the community would handle grounded racism, where someone can have moments of empathy and heroism, self sacrifice and charity, while also hating those people over there. Take the average soldier during WW2 for example. Those men had moments of heroism we can only dream of replicating, and helped defeat empires of pure evil. Yet most were racist against twenty different groups.

Unlike villainous actions like mass murder and sexual assault, being racist isn't a function of sociopathy or psychopathy. It's not a character condemnation but a character flaw baked into the brain. We know that in-group preference comes from an evolutionary period of competing hominid species, and unfortunately for us, that preference lingered after our competition died out, and it's only defeated by positive exposure to out-groups.

If we look at bigotry as a character flaw instead of a character condemnation, where they become super-hitler in our view, then racism can add a layer of complexity to a morally gray character. The movie Gran Torino was a great example of that complexity, and a great example of character growth and race discussion.

I wonder how the RP community would handle that approach? How would it handle a racist who doesn't walk around killing puppies? Would people claim you're supporting bigots because you don't reduce them to caricatures? I wonder what the people on this thread would say?

Who knows what the reaction would be, but I think it's far more productive than making super-nazis who love killing cats, because the vast majority of racism doesn't come from skinheads with swastika tattoos. It comes from Aunt Becky who baked you apple pies when you were sad, and the friendly mailman who delivers your mail.

I write in a lot of historical settings so already do this a lot to some extent. It just feels more genuine in those types of settings to have societal attitudes reflect the prejudices of the time. Take your average Medieval European, for example. Whether they were a good upright person or not they likely still held anti-semitic views. It was simply normal at the time.

 

[Merciless Medic]

Not only this, but it's interesting because a huge inciting event to usher her towards BEING a cop was protecting her herbivore friends against a carnivore bully. Getting HURT in the process. Despite her proclamation of equality in all things, that experience was still VERY real and heavily impacted her decisions. In a scene we originally thought was set in order to give an origin to her sense of justice, it actually simultaneously established a reason for a bias, foreshadowing to themes of racism we had barely even touched on by that point in the movie.

Very off topic though XD Just had to gush a sec

I completely forgot about that lmao, it's been a while since I've seen it.

But yes, that is another huge one.

To make an addendum on my post, a bigoted character - if you want them to be liked by people who normally dislike bigotry - should find a way to understand where their bigotry came from and get better from it. They don't have to succeed - in fact much of it is pretty hardwired in our psyche up to a point which makes it difficult. But them making an effort is a step in the right direction and would be seen as redeemable or "redeemed enough". That's if you don't want to start a dumpster fire lmaoo.

Bigotry is, personally, fine just as long as it's got some way of lessening it throughout the story, making an effort to change, or when it's been humanized a little.

 

[Jannah]

I completely forgot about that lmao, it's been a while since I've seen it.

But yes, that is another huge one.

To make an addendum on my post, a bigoted character - if you want them to be liked by people who normally dislike bigotry - should find a way to understand where their bigotry came from and get better from it. They don't have to succeed - in fact much of it is pretty hardwired in our psyche up to a point which makes it difficult. But them making an effort is a step in the right direction and would be seen as redeemable or "redeemed enough". That's if you don't want to start a dumpster fire lmaoo.

Bigotry is, personally, fine just as long as it's got some way of lessening it throughout the story, making an effort to change, or when it's been humanized a little.

I think that is where the tricky part is for a lot of people, especially those with less writing experience: portraying these characters in a way that is likeable.