Viewpoint Controversial themes in writing/RP

[Nihilum]

Society needs to learn the truth instead of it being sugar-coated and as a politically conscious person I like to create stories with meaning. Sometimes the most difficult conversations are precisely the ones we should be happening. It is happening here in Canada right now regarding the residential schools and our colonial past. As someone with indigenous family I welcome it 100%

Incidents like the Catholic treatment of indigenous Canadians is precisely why education on - and not erasing - the controversial parts of an ethnicity's background is extremely important. The more of a habit we make of erasing and turning a blind eye to those topics because it makes us uncomfortable, the more accepted it is to just...act like it never happened. I was sort of baffled by how quickly that whole thing just got shoved under the rug because nobody felt 'comfortable' enough to discuss it. That led to a lot of people never hearing about it even after the brief media coverage, and frankly, I found that pretty concerning.

But to avoid driving this thread in a political direction, as is RPN's tendencies...

I appreciate your point on 'it's not always heavy stuff'. It's important to note that incorporating those controversial themes doesn't mean the WHOLE story is going to be that 24/7. Sometimes, it may not even have a presence more than just narrative notes or very episodic incidences here and there. For the most part, Cal's story focused on not getting eaten by alligators, funky voodoo-hoodoo to treat lycanthropy, and swamp airboat shenanigans. Being realistic doesn't mean it has to be grimdark, and I think that's something people can get confused on easily.

 

[Jannah]

Edit ::

So my phone is fighting me so I’m gonna do the tl:dr version :

know your readers when it comes to writing bigotry. A non straight person of color is going to identify very differently with historical racism or homophobia then a straight white person.

And it’s also okay for people to not want to read stories where the people like them are dehumanized. It’s okay to want just a bit of fun escapism.

I struggle with that in fantasy stories. I love deconstructing the bigotry in the fantasy worlds we create, but I also have to acknowledge sometimes people just what to pretend to have magic powers. And that’s valid.

Especially with how perpetually awful real life is for a wide variety of people, it’s okay to just want to turn your brain off and make a happy story where there is no dehumanization allowed.

I like that you brought up fantasy here since even within fantasy and sci-fi we see a lot of these same themes. Harry Potter has the whole pureblood vs. muggleborn conflict, which literally has real world parallels with racism, Nazism, etc. (granted, it's a hollow gesture now considering the author's views on transpeople, particularly transwomen). Then you have Dune, which literally explores the theme of space colonialism and it also has real world parallels with the Middle Eastern conflict.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Yeah I think it’s a little easier in fantasy as it’s not a real world example.

Like there is nothing in the Harry Potter books to indicate Harry would be treated differently if he was a black lesbian woman for instance. As those are not really the bigotries at play.

So it’s a lot easier for a black lesbian to get to see themselves as a hero in fantasy while also getting to explore how racism can affect their day to day life.

Whereas you are not going to really write a historically accurate roleplay in Georgia in the 1920s where a black lesbian gets to see themselves as any kind of protagonist. They will likely see people like them in varying degrees (whether it be as women, lesbians, or black people) be treated in dehumanizing ways.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Also something I forgot to mention that these discussions always bring up :

Learn to examine your own internalized biases when it comes to bigotry.

Even if you go into a roleplay with the idea that you are deconstructing some ideas make sure you aren’t reinforcing others.

I know a lot of “progressive” roleplayers that have some pretty deep homophobia for instance. The kind of people that will swear up and down they aren’t bigoted but then leave a roleplay if gay people exist within it.

Not even as main characters. Just if some fictional characters in a fictional universe are having a fictional gay relationship that is a bridge too far for them.

I never really get the chance to talk them through that but I would encourage you to interrogate the things that make you uncomfortable or the uniformity of your choices.

If for instance every person you play has to be skinny and beautiful ask yourself why that is.

Like yeah there are the obvious bigotries (most people know enough to question why all their characters are straight or white) but not everyone takes the time to question why all their characters are conventionally attractive.

Like I get the idea if it’s some kind of beauty pageant plot or whatever. But otherwise it just reinforces the idea that only pretty people are worthwhile. Which is its own weird assumption (and I have found a relatively easy one to counteract).

As people tend to get defensive about heavy topics like racism and homophobia because they don’t want to feel like a bad person.

But the path to untangling those basic assumptions is the same as untangling the “only pretty people count” assumptions. And no one is really saying your a bad person if they all look like movie stars.

 

[s e v e n]

I'm gay. I grew up in rural, flaming homophobic, threaten-to-kill-you-for-breathing-in-their-daughter's-direction Appalachia. I had people threaten to run me over with their boosted trucks, threaten to shoot me in the head with their hunting rifles, peers tell me they were staying away because they thought I had a particular disease, adults proudly tell me I was going to burn in hell...the whole homophobic experience. Suffice to say, I've seen and been victim to the crux of violent homophobia in the modern age. Here's where the real hot topic comes in: it would be offensive for a writer to ignore that plight completely. It's typically not done maliciously - just straight or cis people trying to avoid stepping on toes - but still, it's irking to watch people try to act like everything's kumbaya and homophobia doesn't and has never existed. Like, that was a pretty big part of my early gay experience. You know, the whole trying to avoid getting murdered by angry rednecks and all. I wasn't welcomed with big, open arms and a "we accept you!!" from everyone in the community.

If you're aiming for realism or historical accuracy, you can't just ignore huge problems in ethnicities, religions, or other discriminated against groups' backgrounds. It's like whitewashing Thanksgiving by telling kids that the Pilgrims and Native Americans got along perfectly well, and they all had a nice little picnic and shared cultural differences with each other. Rightfully, many people would tell you that's absolutely horrible because you're completely ignoring the part where Native Americans got massacred by the Pilgrims in an attempt to make it family-friendly. And that it's also bad because you're convincing the kids that it was actually a good thing and his people didn't do anything wrong.

In the same light, I have a Choctaw character that belongs to a 1960s setting in rural Louisiana. Let's be frank here. The 1960s were racist as fuck, even without being in the buttcrack of the south. If I were to be uncomfortable with racism, I should not write an indigenous character in that time period, in that place - they're going to be called slurs, experience xenophobia and racism, and probably have threats made against them at bare minimum. Erasing the -phobia and mistreatment in the pasts of certain groups is a bad habit to get into, because you're essentially wanting to reap all the benefits of 'diversity' without any of the consequences. Those people in real life don't get to just ignore all that nastiness, because for them, it's a real part of what they went through or are going through, and there's a good chance it ain't going away anytime soon.

Is it acceptable to say 'but Saturn I'm writing for fun I don't want all that gross stuff in my RP?' Perhaps. But if that's the case, you should really consider whether or not realistic or historic settings are for you. If you don't want racism, homophobia, or any other -phobic topics in your RP, you can always make your own setting that isn't set in a realistic portrayal of rural Louisiana in the 1960s. In my personal opinion, nobody should be erasing the struggles of minority groups from existence just because it makes them uncomfortable. That's sort of the point. You should feel uncomfortable about it, because the people who actually went through that shit felt a whole lot worse than just 'ew icky.' Know what you're getting into. Realize that not everything is flowers and puppies. If you don't like that, reconsider writing that character, or reconsider the setting to exchange it for something not based on reality.

I'm sort of soapboxing here. To get relevant again, no, someone writing a villain or character that's -phobic doesnt' mean they're -phobic. I've written homophobic characters before. I, advocate for being flagrantly gay because women are cool and it's 2021 for god's sake, am obviously not homophobic. It's important to draw the line between IC actions and OOC actions. It's the same idea of my character punching yours in the face doesn't mean I want to punch you.

This. This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say the other day. You have stated everything more eloquently than I could ever, and I thank you. You, ma'am, are a cultured person, and I truly have nothing to add.

 

[SandraDeelightful]

It seems like more and more people want to steer away from bigotry in any form in roleplays. Which is fine, but it's kinda odd when the roleplay will cover every other controversial theme under the sun.

Something that I've noticed, as someone who often does historical RP's, is that people want to steer away from darker themes such as racism and homophobia. Like, everything about this is historically accurate, except racism and homophobia are eradicated (and maybe I'm just too cynical, but bigots will always exists. I don't like it, but you will never get rid of it entirely). Also, sexism is alive and well in these stories??? That's the thing that I find really jarring. It's not really something I have a problem with, as find gender dynamics to be interesting to explore. Also, maybe I'm just too big of a history nerd, but it gets me asking questions and I think about a premise far more than I should.

Also, I believe in seperating the art from the artist. I understand that it works on somewhat of a case by case basis, in that some people might have a harder time getting past it than others (as much as I belive in this concept, there's times when someone I don't like kinda taints the art, but I don't believe in making a fuss if others look past it).

 

[nerdy tangents]

To be fair it kinda depends on the story you wanna tell in a historical setting.

As most people who do historical roleplays are basing their stories on the historical genre of literature/media and not on historical research into a specific time period.

As someone who used to read a lot of historical novels (mystery and romance) I can tell you the romantic ones almost never had people of color or queer people. The mysteries occasionally had a sidekick character who was Queer or POC but it was still pretty uncommon.

So if it is erasure of those topics it’s not done out of malice. It’s because none of the stories people are familiar with show those types of things existing.

Especially in romance. Like if the entire plot is how some cishet white lady has to marry some richer cishet white man then you aren’t gonna get a broad picture of a historical time period.

It also explains why sexism is prevalent cuz it’s the only type of prejudice cishet white ladies have to deal with.

 

[Jannah]

To be fair it kinda depends on the story you wanna tell in a historical setting.

As most people who do historical roleplays are basing their stories on the historical genre of literature/media and not on historical research into a specific time period.

As someone who used to read a lot of historical novels (mystery and romance) I can tell you the romantic ones almost never had people of color or queer people. The mysteries occasionally had a sidekick character who was Queer or POC but it was still pretty uncommon.

So if it is erasure of those topics it’s not done out of malice. It’s because none of the stories people are familiar with show those types of things existing.

Especially in romance. Like if the entire plot is how some cishet white lady has to marry some richer cishet white man then you aren’t gonna get a broad picture of a historical time period.

It also explains why sexism is prevalent cuz it’s the only type of prejudice cishet white ladies have to deal with.

A lot of these stories feature white characters since they're using being written by white authors. Of course white people are going to be most familiar with their own stories. There's also a whole controversy about whether people not part of a particular oppressed group should be able to depict the struggles of said oppressed group.

That being said, I do try to fit POC into historical settings where appropriate. However, it's not always easy due to all the prejudice that existed. I'm not just going to toss that reality under the rug either. It's ignoring the very real lived experiences of millions of people to do so.

 

[Hootle]

A lot of these stories feature white characters since they're using being written by white authors. Of course white people are going to be most familiar with their own stories. There's also a whole controversy about whether people not part of a particular oppressed group should be able to depict the struggles of said oppressed group.

That being said, I do try to fit POC into historical settings where appropriate. However, it's not always easy due to all the prejudice that existed. I'm not just going to toss that reality under the rug either. It's ignoring the very real lived experiences of millions of people to do so.

I have a question. Do you write for people of color as main characters in your writing?

 

[Syntra]

I have been reading through the replies and, yeah, fine, I get it. Everyone has different preferences and that's cool. For me, I can either include or not include bigotry depending on the plot, so I have no horse in this race.

Still, I have to admit I'm kind of surprised at how many people seem to think it's somehow insulting when people don't include, say, homophobia in their worldbuilding. Like, what??? It's rp, not a dissertation, and sometimes people just don't want to think about that aspect of their lives. I'm sure me writing out my comfy AU won't make a random middle-aged Joe go: "Hmm, I guess homophobia has been eradicated, the ungrateful little fucks should shut up about it now." Like, that's not how this shit works. I guess I just don't think rp is such a big deal because, statistically, it's very unlikely that a lot of people will read a thread revolving around my and my partners' current weird hyperfixations. I don't really think there's any social responsibility.

 

[Jannah]

I have a question. Do you write for people of color as main characters in your writing?

Depends on the setting, really. If I'm writing a piece set in, for example, Asia, then obviously my main characters will be Asian.

 

[Hootle]

Depends on the setting, really. If I'm writing a piece set in, for example, Asia, then obviously my main characters will be Asian.

I mean lol but it's not really obvious though. I've seen people write historical pieces set in Asia but the main characters were white so yeah. Everyone does something differently that's why I wanted to ask.

 

[Jannah]

I mean lol but it's not really obvious though. I've seen people write historical pieces set in Asia but the main characters were white so yeah. Everyone does something differently that's why I wanted to ask.

I'm all for historical accuracy so obviously my stories about Asia are going to feature primarily Asian characters while my stories about Europe are going to feature primarily European characters. Characters of other races/ethnicities will generally need a believable backstory for why they're present. Often as merchants or traders.

 

[nerdy tangents]

A lot of these stories feature white characters since they're using being written by white authors. Of course white people are going to be most familiar with their own stories. There's also a whole controversy about whether people not part of a particular oppressed group should be able to depict the struggles of said oppressed group.

That being said, I do try to fit POC into historical settings where appropriate. However, it's not always easy due to all the prejudice that existed. I'm not just going to toss that reality under the rug either. It's ignoring the very real lived experiences of millions of people to do so.

Former librarian, I’m very familiar with how publishing works.

My point is if all you know about the Victorian era is what you read in “The Handsome Duke” or whatever then yeah you are gonna assume everyone was cishet and white. Cuz that is what shows up in those kinds of books.

And with romance in general the focus is going to be the interpersonal relationships.

As a fantasy writer I can speak to how little world building most romantic stories really require. I mean yeah to me as an individual explaining how the world works is fun.

In much the same way social commentary seems to be what makes a roleplay fun for you.

But my point is that a lack of social commentary does not make a historical roleplay less accurate if the story is not about that. Like a love story between two white people does not also have to involve the social commentary of the time.

 

[snicker_sage]

I avoid everything related to politics, that also includes supporting or not *insert communities*.

It's best to nod and move on in other things in life.

What the other do is none's business, as long they are not dangerous about it.

I, also avoid religions, i am not intererested in either.

At least, i know what i don't want and expect my partners to respect that.

 

[Jannah]

I avoid everything related to politics, that also includes supporting or not *insert communities*.

It's best to nod and move on in other things in life.

What the other do is none's business, as long they are not dangerous about it.

I, also avoid religions, i am not intererested in either.

At least, i know what i don't want and expect my partners to respect that.

You'd hate writing with me then as I frequently include these themes. They're topics I have personal interest in so often slip into my writing, even if subconsciously.

 

[snicker_sage]

You'd hate writing with me then as I frequently include these themes. They're topics I have personal interest in so often slip into my writing, even if subconsciously.

Well, it's really not negociable, sorry..

 

[Jannah]

Well, it's really not negociable, sorry..

Oh I know. Different people have their RP preferences and that is fine!

 

[snicker_sage]

Oh I know. Different people have their RP preferences and that is fine!

I mean, people can move on, if someone isn't supporting the same things as they do, it's completely fine.

People forgot that opinions are a thing, if that wasn't the case, the world would be horrible..

A kind of Orwellien kind of stuff, and i'd rather not see that..

Preferences are important, so are boundaries.

 

[Jannah]

I mean, people can move on, if someone isn't supporting the same things as they do, it's completely fine.

People forgot that opinions are a thing, if that wasn't the case, the world would be horrible..

A kind of Orwellien kind of stuff, and i'd rather not see that..

Preferences are important, so are boundaries.

Yep, 100%. Communication is key and imo one of the biggest reasons why RP's break down is due to lack of communication.

 

[snicker_sage]

Yep, 100%. Communication is key and imo one of the biggest reasons why RP's break down is due to lack of communication.

You can thanks any social-networks for the lack of communications and proper judgements.

 

[Daisie]

Just throwing my hat into the mix. I generally avoid topics like blatant homophobia, racism, and sexism. But I do think it's fine to address them in writing. I'd be a hypocrite to say that you can't use sensitive topics in RP - my RPs tend to be loaded with them, but those three in particular are just not my wheelhouse. In terms of particularly polarizing topics, I tend towards religious persecution, classism, and government overreach, so it's a tradeoff I guess. Write whatever you want though, and with whatever moral agenda you like. So long as your partner is fine with it anyways. It's a hobby.

Edit: I think race has legitimately only ever been overtly addressed one time in-character. And that was my character describing his skin color to the blind girl he fancied. So there's your dose of wholesomeness to lighten things up.

 

[Nu Epiq]

I see and experience these kinds of topics in real life so unless I'm trying to convey a message in my solo writing, I don't go down that road in roleplay. I don't want to write with a partner and it come up either because I had someone who didn't seem to want to write about different ethnicities/races/sexualities authentically so much so as they just wanted an excuse to drop slurs. People can do whatever they want to do though and are going to. It is what it is I guess.

 

[Jannah]

I see and experience these kinds of topics in real life so unless I'm trying to convey a message in my solo writing, I don't go down that road in roleplay. I don't want to write with a partner and it come up either because I had someone who didn't seem to want to write about different ethnicities/races/sexualities authentically so much so as they just wanted an excuse to drop slurs. People can do whatever they want to do though and are going to. It is what it is I guess.

For people who do want to write about these topics it's definitely important to vet partners carefully. Like, I've been in plenty of WW II RP's where players wanted to write Nazis. Nothing inherently wrong with wanting to write the villain, but for some of these people it wasn't anything to do with wanting to write the villain as much as it was them wanting a platform to express their awful irl views.

 

[Nu Epiq]

For people who do want to write about these topics it's definitely important to vet partners carefully. Like, I've been in plenty of WW II RP's where players wanted to write Nazis. Nothing inherently wrong with wanting to write the villain, but for some of these people it wasn't anything to do with wanting to write the villain as much as it was them wanting a platform to express their awful irl views.

Yup. Pretty much why I avoid it.