Chronicles of Riddick and Abyssals

[Relic]

Could be fun, though It seems like he is taking the same road as Schwartzenegger.

I'd say Schwartzenegger with an upgrade. What I really like about Vin Diesel (both in the two Riddick movies and in xXx) is the self-irony of the character(s) he plays. The character is cardboard cut, true, but to me it is as if the character is aware of his cardboardedness and plays at it. I can't take these characters seriously but at the same time I don't think that is the intention.


To me, these three movies are very much about style over substance, and for that genre I think Vin Diesel does it so well that I honestly wouldn't know whether someone found a person whose bad act was perfect for these films or whether he's just a damn good actor who hits it right on the spot.


The films are cheesy in so many ways, but also tongue-in-cheek about it. Me like.


...Cardboardedness... a long forgotten royal title perhaps? "Greetings, your cardboardedness". Ahem...

 

[Flagg]

I'd have to watch it again before commenting further, but he did play a stockbroker in Boiler Room, and I don't remember him being bad.


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

Boiler Room wasn't a bad flick. I wasn't that impressed with Knockaround Guys, but he wasn't bad in it either. About on par with the character. I rather liked A Man Apart.


Disel isn't a great actor, but I think he does fine in the roles he's taken. He's not doing Hamlet. Hannibal apparently, which should be interesting, since he's directing it. It's written by the same fella who did Gladiator, Citzen Cohen, Amistad. He's unfortunately also responsible for the last King Arthur, which on one level I liked--I rather liked the depiction of Romans, but the film was a mess otherwise. He also wrote Jumpin' Jack Flash--which, I still have a copy of, and it makes me giggle, but it was his first film, and I don't think that you can hold that against him.


For those who haven't seen Diesel really act, find a copy of Multi-Facial and see if that doesn't change your mind about the fella. He wrote and directed it.  It's a short, and I think that it might be kicking around Atom Films...


You might also want to check out Strays from 1997, which he also wrote and directed, which was his first full length production.

 

[StarHawk]

For my two cents, the only think I really liked about Chronicles of Riddic was 1) Vin Disle running around the set like a gamer-nerd making all sorts of sound effects in the bonus features. and 2) the immagry of the necropolis place.


As for his acting, yeah it's kinda okay considering what parts he's playing. (I haven't seen his latest "kindergarden-cop-remake" yet, so I may be wrong)

 

[Persell]

Correct. That is excactly what I implied in my posting. And that can probably be said about lots and lots of actors and other artists out there. But we don't have a different word for them for that reason. We still see them as actors and when we watch their performance they should still be subjected to the same critique as every other actor who performs in a movie.

Why should they?

If you got paid to go fly fishing and did a lousy job of it wouldn't you except at least a few snippy comments from your fellow fly fishers?

I'd certainly EXPECT it, but that doesn't mean their comments are warranted or justified. I often expect people to make unwarranted critiques.

 

[Joseph]

Correct. That is excactly what I implied in my posting. And that can probably be said about lots and lots of actors and other artists out there. But we don't have a different word for them for that reason. We still see them as actors and when we watch their performance they should still be subjected to the same critique as every other actor who performs in a movie.

Why should they?

They should be subjected to the same critique as every other actor to discourage people who don't have their heart in it to make movies worse by poor acting.  If you simply accept "Well, the actor clearly didn't really care if he did a good job or not," then all you're doing is sending the message that it doesn't really.


We criticize services on our expectations, not the providers intentions.  If you pay for something and it fails to meet your expectations, then you are warranted in criticizing it.  If the target of your criticism fails to improve based on that criticism, then you'll likely not pay for their services again.  Consider it, if you'd rather, a criticism of the producer's choice to hire an actor whose heart wasn't in it, as opposed to a criticism of the actor himself.  Either the actor failed (which you assert is not the case), or the producer failed in choosing an actor who wouldn't fail (which is the other option).

 

[Persell]

I'd certainly EXPECT it, but that doesn't mean their comments are warranted or justified. I often expect people to make unwarranted critiques.

Do you think "My, you're a bad fly fisher, mister!" to be an unwarrented critique if you are a bad fly fisher?... Mister?

 

[Persell]

Boiler Room wasn't a bad flick. I wasn't that impressed with Knockaround Guys' date=' but he wasn't bad in it either. About on par with the character. I rather liked [b']A Man Apart[/b].
Disel isn't a great actor, but I think he does fine in the roles he's taken. He's not doing Hamlet. Hannibal apparently, which should be interesting, since he's directing it. It's written by the same fella who did Gladiator, Citzen Cohen, Amistad. He's unfortunately also responsible for the last King Arthur, which on one level I liked--I rather liked the depiction of Romans, but the film was a mess otherwise. He also wrote Jumpin' Jack Flash--which, I still have a copy of, and it makes me giggle, but it was his first film, and I don't think that you can hold that against him.

Now, it's seldom that I actually notice the names of the actors and directors of the movies I see, but did Vin Diesel direct all those films or did write them? He has been way more busy, than I have ever noticed.

For those who haven't seen Diesel really act' date=' find a copy of [b']Multi-Facial[/b] and see if that doesn't change your mind about the fella. He wrote and directed it.  It's a short, and I think that it might be kicking around Atom Films...
You might also want to check out Strays from 1997, which he also wrote and directed, which was his first full length production.

Sounds like I actually might have a slightly faulty picture of the guy. Wonder if it is possible to get those movies in Denmark?

 

[Relic]

Wonder if it is possible to get those movies in Denmark?

You could always go to the video store and ask them if they have "multi-facial" and see if they can keep a straight face. ;-)


But no, being a short (20 minutes), I bet it's hard to come by, and probably ridiculously overpriced in the one place we find it. I am in the process of ... ehm ... retrieving a backup of it, yes, so we can see what it is.

 

[Persell]

I am in the process of ... ehm ... retrieving a backup of it, yes, so we can see what it is.

It is so kind of our... ehm... connections to... er... borrow us a copy for educational use at no charge.

 

[Persell]

Correct. That is excactly what I implied in my posting. And that can probably be said about lots and lots of actors and other artists out there. But we don't have a different word for them for that reason. We still see them as actors and when we watch their performance they should still be subjected to the same critique as every other actor who performs in a movie.

Why should they?

They should be subjected to the same critique as every other actor to discourage people who don't have their heart in it to make movies worse by poor acting.

I disagree. what will discourage bad actors from making movies is NOT PAYING THEM.

If you simply accept "Well, the actor clearly didn't really care if he did a good job or not," then all you're doing is sending the message that it doesn't really.


We criticize services on our expectations, not the providers intentions.  If you pay for something and it fails to meet your expectations, then you are warranted in criticizing it.  If the target of your criticism fails to improve based on that criticism, then you'll likely not pay for their services again.  Consider it, if you'd rather, a criticism of the producer's choice to hire an actor whose heart wasn't in it, as opposed to a criticism of the actor himself.  Either the actor failed (which you assert is not the case), or the producer failed in choosing an actor who wouldn't fail (which is the other option).

See, I think that's the much better way to go. If someone casts an actor who never really intended to do a good job, then it's not the actor that ought to be criticized for his poor acting - it's whoever hired the hack.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Orm--He has written two pieces. Multi-Facial and Strays.


Vin has directed four pieces. Multi-Facial. Strays. Short Diversity 5. and Hannibal.


He has produced eight pieces. Multi-Facial. Strays. xXx. A Man Apart. The Chronicles of Riddick. Find Me Guilty. Hannibal. and Rockfish and upcoming animated feature.


He is also a gamer. Fit that into your mental picture. He was also pretty much involved in the development of the Chronicles of Riddick video game and Dark Fury as well. Me, I liked the game a lot, but the mechanics were a bit hinky, which in a stealth game is a source of frustration.


Vin is a bit more than just a deep voiced actor.

 

[Persell]

Orm--He has written two pieces. Multi-Facial and Strays.
Vin has directed four pieces. Multi-Facial. Strays. Short Diversity 5. and Hannibal.


He has produced eight pieces. Multi-Facial. Strays. xXx. A Man Apart. The Chronicles of Riddick. Find Me Guilty. Hannibal. and Rockfish and upcoming animated feature.


He is also a gamer. Fit that into your mental picture. He was also pretty much involved in the development of the Chronicles of Riddick video game and Dark Fury as well. Me, I liked the game a lot, but the mechanics were a bit hinky, which in a stealth game is a source of frustration.


Vin is a bit more than just a deep voiced actor.

In fact, I'd say he's not an actor at all. He's not terribly good at acting, and it's clearly not the occupation with which he most closely identifies. It's something he does because, for whatever reason, people are willing to pay him to do it. It's not what he IS, though.


I would fly-fish if people were willing to pay me to do it. But I wouldn't do it WELL, I can tell you that.

 

[Jakk Bey]

TSJ--He's an actor. He's also a director. You can be both. He's just better, I think, as a writer and a director--much like I think that Clint Eastwood is a better director than he is an actor. You can be both.


I think that Diesel is careful with the roles that he plays--despite the atrociousness of xXx, or its upcoming sequel, actors have often done horrible films because people have paid them. Congo anyone?


Me, I like the work that he does with characters who internalize a lot. They project one thing, but it's obvious that they have a lot more going on inside than they let on--and that is perhaps because folks look at Vin and see a fella who is huge, ripping with muscles, and they think: idiot.


But he's an idiot who gets paid. And that means that perhaps he's not so much of an idiot as some folks think. Kind of like The Rock. Yes, it's a stupid name, and he got a good start, and good amount of cash from pro wrestling, but the man is parlaying that fame pretty shrewdly, and put out some films that are actually fun.


Is Jackie Chan an actor? Director? Stunt man? Writer? Producer? All of these things?  I find it interesting the amount of sour grapes that go on when someone hits it big, and they don't fit the mold, and then suddenly folks seem ready to take pot shots. Like Stallone with Rocky. Like Schwartzenegger with his projects. If you happen to be physically adept, you can't do much else.  And yet, there is a growing pool of black film makers who seem able to both--Vin Diesel is one. Fred Williamson. Wesley Snipes are other examples. Mario Van Peebles, not a great actor, but he is certainly doing his bit both behind and in front of the camera.  Mario is certainly his father's son, and has done some interesting work, but at heart, he is still an action film actor and director, because that's where the money is. But, in each case, there is often a bit more going on in the films than a redux of blaxploitation flicks, which the critics seem often enough quick to dismiss.

 

[Flagg]

And yet' date=' there is a growing pool of black film makers who seem able to both--Vin Diesel is one.[/quote']
Is Vin Diesel black?


-S

 

[Relic]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004874/

 

[Persell]

TSJ--He's an actor. He's also a director. You can be both. He's just better' date=' I think, as a writer and a director--much like I think that Clint Eastwood is a better director than he is an actor. You can be both. [/quote']
Only if by "actor" you mean "person who acts." If by "actor" you mean "person who personally identifies with acting and for whom evaluations of his performance thereof are indications of his attainment of life goals," then no, he is not.

 

[Persell]

And yet' date=' there is a growing pool of black film makers who seem able to both--Vin Diesel is one.[/quote']
Is Vin Diesel black?


-S

One of his parents is, which in most people's minds makes him black as well. According to the one-drop rule he CERTAINLY is . . . of course, according to the one-drop rule, it's estimated that 60-80% of "white" Americans are black.

 

[Persell]

One of his parents is, which in most people's minds makes him black as well. According to the one-drop rule he CERTAINLY is . . . of course, according to the one-drop rule, it's estimated that 60-80% of "white" Americans are black.

Isn't it called a mulatto then? Or is that racist?

 

[Persell]

One of his parents is, which in most people's minds makes him black as well. According to the one-drop rule he CERTAINLY is . . . of course, according to the one-drop rule, it's estimated that 60-80% of "white" Americans are black.

Isn't it called a mulatto then? Or is that racist?

Yes, it's SOMETIMES called a mulatto. And yes, that is racist. People are racist sometimes. Most people, however, consider a person with one black parent to be black - especially if that person is raised with an awareness of their blackness, which we have every reason to believe that Vin Diesel was.

 

[Flagg]

One of his parents is, which in most people's minds makes him black as well. According to the one-drop rule he CERTAINLY is . . . of course, according to the one-drop rule, it's estimated that 60-80% of "white" Americans are black.

Is there a similar legal standard for "African American" like there is for "Native American"? I'd imagine there must be, for charities like the United Negro College Fund to operate.


-S

 

[Flagg]

Yes, it's SOMETIMES called a mulatto. And yes, that is racist. People are racist sometimes.

One of my childhood friends had a black father and a white mother. He routinely used 'mulatto' (actually, the exact phrase he used was 'latto') to describe himself.


I think the word is only racist contextually, much like the word 'I'm uncultured'.


-S

 

[Joseph]

No TERM is racist, only specific uses of it.  Black children aren't being racist when they call one another I'm uncultured, and neither REALLY is a white person using it in an affectionate fashion.  Mulatto is the same way, really.  


Anyone who disagrees is just looking for things to bitch about.

 

[Persell]

One of his parents is, which in most people's minds makes him black as well. According to the one-drop rule he CERTAINLY is . . . of course, according to the one-drop rule, it's estimated that 60-80% of "white" Americans are black.

Is there a similar legal standard for "African American" like there is for "Native American"? I'd imagine there must be, for charities like the United Negro College Fund to operate.


-S

No, there isn't. Although the one-drop rule is actually almost always considered good enough . . . despite the obvious conatrdictions entailed by the rule.

 

[Persell]

Yes, it's SOMETIMES called a mulatto. And yes, that is racist. People are racist sometimes.

One of my childhood friends had a black father and a white mother. He routinely used 'mulatto' (actually, the exact phrase he used was 'latto') to describe himself.


I think the word is only racist contextually, much like the word 'I'm uncultured'.


-S

Wel NO WORD is racist non-contextually. Every word, in order to be racist in nature, must occur within a context. No word is racist in and of itself. That said, the word "mulatto" is racist more often than not.