Chronicles of Riddick and Abyssals

[cyl]

Okay let's get off the topic of riddick and the abyssmongers ^^


I didn't say I hated Ep 1&2... I just didn't love them, and I was very disappointed when I saw them, and was very happy to see the revenge of the sith had taken notice of what people disliked.


I did not like the fact that in Ep 1 there was : no intrigue at all (a 2h30 movie just to get palpatine elected, and young skywalker introduced... a bit too hard for me to buy), the midi chlorians (dude what a shitty scientifical explanation of fucking microscopic entities had to do with the mystical teachings of Obi Wan and Yoda), the mutism of dark maul (why is he fighting for...and what is the revenge of the sith they are talking about ???... I knew what it was about, but for someone who hasn't read/seen anything on the sith... a revenge uh, what for ? why ?), and most of all... what I HATED in Ep1, this I hated, was that Lucas, who had apparently no sufficient imagination for this episode, tried to recreate a environment of tension and conflict that made the success of A New Hope, and miserably failed, throwing at us a bone made of political maneuvers designed by the dark lord of the sith to show us a glimpse of a dying republic... where was the tensions... where were the heroes ? where the hell was the pression that follows us when the crew is trying to get out of the first Death Star, and when Luke is going to get his single shot against the Death Star with Vader in his back ?


And don't tell me about the mystery that surrounds the sith...there is no mystery, just two guys in black robes acting like they were scary and had control on everything, manipulating THE trade federation (why are they afraid of Palpatine anyway, or why did they join him ? nobody knows)... but the dual bladed lightsaber was awesome, and the fight... gosh ^^


What I didn't like in Ep 2: Anakin (not the actor, cause he was so good at playing a youngster so sure he's the best at everything that he made an unbearable character, I wanted to punch him throughout the whole movie... what a jerk), the romance (damn, how many cliches did Lucas had to exploit, the lunch in the fields, the kiss at the balcony, the lovers next to the cheminee... just to see a pathetic scene where Padme said "I truly, deeply love you"...why, how come, how did he seduced her, I haven't seen that ?), the Count Dooku (what the hell is he doing here ? who is he ? why trying to pretend he may not be one of the baddies... and don't tell me it's clear, I watched Ep 2 with the audio comments of Lucas, and he said he planned it to be that way), Jango Fett (why a bounty hunter would accept to be cloned for money, and then stick with the cause of the sith... he has nothing to do with them, he's a bounty hunter... it's his job not to give a damn about anything, but if the money's good... okay that can do it), and Obi Wan (what a looser this guy.... he fucks up everything he approaches., I wonder how he managed to get to the rank of master being so dumb).


Bref, about Bobba, what was cool, is that he was mysterious, smart, deadly and quick...and he was with Vader... but not really on his side... he worked for Jabba...and he got Han Solo with his own trick. All you can see in Jango is a jerk who god knows why has abandoned a life of danger and adventures to just sit in Kamino and cash his checks and get a son cloned from himself... great character... bravo George... and the dumbest thing of all about him... where does he go after his fight with obi wan... to the very place he should not go to... the secret hiding place of the baddies... man gimme a break you can be a bounty hunter being that stupid.


So if I may sound very familiar with those critics... I must admit I liked a few things in Ep 1&2, enough to save them from my eternal wrath, but not enough to dare mark them as good pictures... far from it.


...Ending transmission on that subject...

 

[Andrew02]

The original trilogy had fucking ewoks dancing. Fucking EWOKS. Not only did they dance, but they ass raped the Imperial troopers. How can you say there was any majesty to be had in the older films when they had midgets in fur suits achieving comparable victories to the Rebels?

 

[cyl]

'cause the ewoks although not as powerful and geared as the rebels had the advantage of the knowledge of the field, and they had the will to do it... no matter the cost...


The Ewoks if you think about it are very similar to the rebels... low equiped, way outnumbered, but smart and cunning. The rebels had almost 20-30 x-wing and y-wing fighters to take on the Death star (man the Death Star, THE most powerful battle engines ever built), but they did it because they had the will to do it, and they surely got lucky... According to me, the Ewoks are here to, besides entertain young ones, vehicle the message that no matter the adversity, if you want something done, then do it... luck favors those who dare.


And 'bout them dancing... I don't see a problem here... they are a primitive tribal culture, it is in their ways and customs to dance to celebrate a victory or an achievement... how ridiculous it may seems... many culture on earth did and still do it that way.

 

[Joseph]

The original trilogy had fucking ewoks dancing. Fucking EWOKS. Not only did they dance, but they ass raped the Imperial troopers. How can you say there was any majesty to be had in the older films when they had midgets in fur suits achieving comparable victories to the Rebels?

Excellent point.  Trained storm troopers losing to thinks that throw rocks and have spears and tiny bows.  And perhaps worse, the Ewoks win with like one casualty, against enemies using AT-ATs and blaster fire!


If something like this had happened in Episodes 1 through 3, people would have had a fit over it.  But because it happened in Episode 6, it's alright.

 

[Joseph]

The Ewoks if you think about it are very similar to the rebels... low equiped, way outnumbered, but smart and cunning.

Except they ARE NOT smart and cunning.  Their tactics consist mostly of throwing rocks and shooting tiny bows that surely would not pierce storm trooper armor.  Heck, they are tricked into thinking C-3PO is going to destroy them because he floats around a bit!  


These things clearly aren't what you'd call smart and cunning, and they don't even have rebel level technology.  The Empire is advanced and organized enough to build a deathstar, but not organized enough to defend the sole base keeping a shield around that deathstar sufficiently to ward off spear wielding midgets?  Ridiculous.

The rebels had almost 20-30 x-wing and y-wing fighters to take on the Death star (man the Death Star, THE most powerful battle engines ever built), but they did it because they had the will to do it, and they surely got lucky... According to me, the Ewoks are here to, besides entertain young ones, vehicle the message that no matter the adversity, if you want something done, then do it... luck favors those who dare.

And that's a really bad message, and again, if it had happened in Episode 1, you'd be pissed about it.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Off course it has resonance...


Chronicles of Riddick--despite it's space motiff--is a fantasy film.


As a science fiction film, it isn't much. As Kull, set in space, it is sublime. It is a barbarian film at its heart, and isn't even Space Opera, it's a fantasy film with science fiction leanings.


Mine the sucker for what it's worth, it has Exalted all over it. It is inspired by Robert E. Howard, and treat it as such. The problem that most people had was that they didn't get the references. They were expecting a science fiction film, they got a barbarian fantasy with guns.


Me, I like that kind of mix up. Then again, I like fusion cuisine too.

 

[cyl]

I'm trying to let it go... resist to the temptation... uuuunh I can't !


So remind me... who crush the At-st with two trees, who attached ropes to trees to mess with the speed-bikers, who made the At-St fall with a load of big lumbers uh ?! Rebels...no, Ewoks man... Ewoks.


The truth about the fall of all empires, kingdoms and reigns is that most of them fade because of overconfidence... that's what Luke tells the emperor, and that's why Palpatine made his Empire, and why it was destroyed... overconfidence.


Moff Tarkin who had command of the first Death Star could not even believe the rebels stood a chance against his Star... nor the Emperor could when he tried to lure Luke into the dark side. The old republicans were so sure of their system was doing just fine, that when it finally collapsed they welcomed the Empire.


And that's how most victories/defeats are achieved in star wars... underestimating the ennemy...overconfidence in oneself. Still not accepting the facts... why did Anakin became Vader ? because he believed he was powerful enough to take on the dark side and save his girlie... why did he loose against Obi Wan... 'cause he thought he was stronger than obi...Why did the Emperor was killed by Vader ? because he was sure that Vader would not realize he loved his son and stay by his side...and I could go on for hours about it... it's just logic... like the arm cutting lightsaber... in every star wars but the first (God knows why) there is an arm cut.


And there is the same kind of stuff in ROTS than in ROJ, wookies fight the separatists with almost nothing but mines and heavy blasters... fortunately they have Clone troopers allies.


So I try to put that kind of stuff in my games... okay you're a big bad ass Solar, fully loaded with First Age Artifacts, but that does not necessarily imply you're gonna win the day... do not underestimate every opponent you have to face... because it will seal your doom one day.


Just to come back to the Riddick subject... I think the army of Walker in the Darkness would be the most apropriated to be a necromonger look-a-like.

 

[Courteous Mongoose]

You better be joking.

Nope. I'm always 100% serious. Always.


-S

Well fuck you then.

 

[Flagg]

Well fuck you then.

Hey now, that's hardly the behavior I'd expect from a courteous mongoose.


-S

 

[Persell]

Seriously... this is not what I've taken from the original trilogy, this is not what I grew up with...

Thanks for the rubbish canned babble that a large portion of the people who have seen the original three movies parrots.


Yes, it is true Episodes 1 and 2 were not FANTASTIC, but they weren't TERRIBLE either.

No, they were pretty terrible. I've seen FAR worse movies, mind you, but Episodes 1 and 2 were definitely what I'd call terrible. Of course, I never thought the original trilogy was GREAT. They were certainly watchable movies, and the trilogy as a whole is better than any one of the films, but it wasn't fantastic or anything. The new trilogy, however, consists of two horrid movies and one decent one. Overall, it's a passable trilogy since the final installment does manage to bring everything together fairly well.

 

[Persell]

There are more than one?! That's really bad news. Riddick is really really horribly, ABYSMALLY played. Someone should saw the arms and legs of Vin Diesel and pump asphalt up his ass till he split apart. He is a fucking disgrace to acting.


Aside from that, the deathmonger (or whatever) leader was rather cool, though the whole concept of deathmongers is unbelievably stupid.

 

[Persell]

There are more than one?! That's really bad news. Riddick is really really horribly, ABYSMALLY played.

Actually, I think the character is played quite well. It just happens to be the ONLY character that Vin Diesel plays well. He's basically playing a fantasy version of himself . . . rather expected for a die-hard DnD gamer.

Someone should saw the arms and legs of Vin Diesel and pump asphalt up his ass till he split apart. He is a fucking disgrace to acting.

Well good, because he never intended to be an actor. He actually went to school to learn to direct. Acting just fell in his lap.

Aside from that, the deathmonger (or whatever) leader was rather cool, though the whole concept of deathmongers is unbelievably stupid.

I agree the Necromonger concept is a bit cheesy . . . but it fits right in with the high fantasy mood of the movie. The concepts SHOULD be a bit cheesy. It's certainly no more stupid than the concepts of DnD style Alignments and Dieties.

 

[Persell]

All that said, Pitch Black was an AMAZING movie, Vin Diesel aside. What made THAT movie great was the setting, overall plot, and outstanding use of light and sound . . . not so much the characters and acting.

 

[cyl]

I've seen Both... was very surprised by Pitch Black (I fell in love with Richard B Riddick, one of the best anti hero of the early 2000's), and enjoyed a lot The Chronicles...


The point was not the acting of Diesel... who is not even pretending to be an actor though he might have been a good director, but the charisma of Riddick... and that's what I can't take from Diesel... even if he screws it up every time he opens his mouth, when he says nothing and just move... man nice mooves you got pal...


But fuck it... I've never come to a theater with firm intention to watch a sci-fi/fantasy movie to see the best actors on the market and the depthness of the characters they play... I'm here to enjoy the movie... and well if acting sucked... it won't ruin it all to me.

 

[Persell]

Someone should saw the arms and legs of Vin Diesel and pump asphalt up his ass till he split apart. He is a fucking disgrace to acting.

I just have to say that I love it when fuckwits like Ormseitr criticize people for being bad at things that they never intended to be GOOD at. Vin Diesel's not a good actor because he never INTENDED to be one. That's like calling me a disgrace to fly-fishing. Well guess what? I have no desire to be anything OTHER THAN a disgrace to fly-fishing.


You, Ormseitr, are a disgrace to rational human beings. I can only hope  that this is because you never intended to be one.

 

[Joseph]

Vin Diesel's not a good actor because he never INTENDED to be one.

I'd imagine his intentions to be one began when he accepted a major acting part.  Unless they somehow managed to get him drunk and shoot the entire movie without his consent.


He might not have originally pictured himself as one, but he clearly has had at least at some points in the past intentions to act, even if those intentions never existed before he was offered a job.  

 That's like calling me a disgrace to fly-fishing. Well guess what? I have no desire to be anything OTHER THAN a disgrace to fly-fishing.

I think if you gave it a few more tries you'd realize you loved it.  Don't be prejudiced; learn to see the beauty in what amounts to an overly complex form of trapping.

 

[Persell]

Vin Diesel's not a good actor because he never INTENDED to be one.

I'd imagine his intentions to be one began when he accepted a major acting part.  Unless they somehow managed to get him drunk and shoot the entire movie without his consent.

And I'd imagine his intention was simply to get fucking paid. Just because he accepted a major acting part doesn't mean he ever intended to be a good actor. Hell, *I'd* accept a major acting part if offered one, but I would not intend to be a good actor.

He might not have originally pictured himself as one, but he clearly has had at least at some points in the past intentions to act, even if those intentions never existed before he was offered a job.  

I never claimed he didn't intend to act. I claimed he didn't intend to be a good actor. And I have good reason to believe hat he still does not intend this.

 

[Persell]

Someone should saw the arms and legs of Vin Diesel and pump asphalt up his ass till he split apart. He is a fucking disgrace to acting.

I just have to say that I love it when fuckwits like Ormseitr criticize people for being bad at things that they never intended to be GOOD at. Vin Diesel's not a good actor because he never INTENDED to be one. That's like calling me a disgrace to fly-fishing. Well guess what? I have no desire to be anything OTHER THAN a disgrace to fly-fishing.


You, Ormseitr, are a disgrace to rational human beings. I can only hope  that this is because you never intended to be one.

There there now. I was in a foul mood when I wrote that and probably overdid it a little. I still think Vin Diesel is a lousy actor, even though he didn't intend to act, which seems like little more than hearsay accounting to the posts in this thread. But he intending to act or not is still irrelevant,  as he actually do appear in a movie. I totally respect your indifference to fly fishing, but I assume that that is also what keeps you from actually doing it. Why would you fly fish, when you don't care about it? Why would Vin Diesel act, if he doesn't have a talent for it? Well there are lots of obvious answers to that one. I still think the world would have been better had he maybe stuck to instructing... or something else interely.

 

[Persell]

I'd imagine his intentions to be one began when he accepted a major acting part.  Unless they somehow managed to get him drunk and shoot the entire movie without his consent.

I suspect that is what actually happened in most of the films he appears in.

 

[Persell]

I totally respect your indifference to fly fishing, but I assume that that is also what keeps you from actually doing it. Why would you fly fish, when you don't care about it? Why would Vin Diesel act, if he doesn't have a talent for it?

Three words to answer two questions:


To get paid.

 

[Persell]

I totally respect your indifference to fly fishing, but I assume that that is also what keeps you from actually doing it. Why would you fly fish, when you don't care about it? Why would Vin Diesel act, if he doesn't have a talent for it?

Three words to answer two questions:


To get paid.

Correct. That is excactly what I implied in my posting. And that can probably be said about lots and lots of actors and other artists out there. But we don't have a different word for them for that reason. We still see them as actors and when we watch their performance they should still be subjected to the same critique as every other actor who performs in a movie. If you got paid to go fly fishing and did a lousy job of it wouldn't you except at least a few snippy comments from your fellow fly fishers?


Anyway, I was pretty drunk when I wrote that thing, and I have to admit that I rather enjoyed the Chronicles of Riddick. Even though what Vin Diesel does couldn't really be called 'acting.'

 

[Flagg]

Even though what Vin Diesel does couldn't really be called 'acting.'

If it can't be called acting, then how can it be called bad acting? Your arguments defeat themselves.


-S

 

[Persell]

Even though what Vin Diesel does couldn't really be called 'acting.'

If it can't be called acting, then how can it be called bad acting? Your arguments defeat themselves.

Damnit!! You sly bastard. Ok, it was a figure of speech. Let me rephrase: it can be called acting. It's just really lousy acting. Tell me, do you guys actually like Vin Diesel's acting or is this discussion just for the hell of it?

 

[Flagg]

Tell me, do you guys actually like Vin Diesel's acting or is this discussion just for the hell of it?

I'm just picking on you for fun


As far as Vin's acting: It's not outstanding, nor does it skeeve me particularly. I usually only get bothered by mediocre acting when the actor falls short of the scripted role.


To be completely fair, the character of Riddick is a fairly cardboard cut-out badass. I think Vin Diesel does a completely adequate job of portraying that. Were he to give a similar performance in the role of, say, Gandhi, it might annoy me a bit.


-S

 

[Persell]

To be completely fair, the character of Riddick is a fairly cardboard cut-out badass. I think Vin Diesel does a completely adequate job of portraying that.

The character is well written and Diesel does look the part. It's just every time he opens his mouth.... I kinda cringe.

Were he to give a similar performance in the role of, say, Gandhi, it might annoy me a bit.

Could be fun, though It seems like he is taking the same road as Schwartzenegger. First the low budget B-movies, then higher budget action flicks, then some family entertainment. I think I would rather have him as a player in my exalted group than pay to se more of his movies