[Ars Magica] Spring's First Light

[Paeniteo Azrael]

So what you're saying is that I need to find an apprentice-slave... Or just teach my companion character magic theory in game.


The spread of the printing press was pretty much exponential by century - 20,000,000 books in 1500, 200,000,000 in 1600, 500M in 1700 and 1B in 1800.


I would say it's conceivable that most European covenants in their summer and autumn stage, and the domus magnae all have a printing press on hand because they have some of the largest libraries in Europe at the time, even though it can't be used to copy hermetic books. Still plenty of mundane books we can use! (Also totally fodder for a minor breakthrough).


Side question - would Arcane Abilities like house lore and order lore be hermetic or mundane? I can see magic theory and obviously Parma Magica as hermetic, but the others are just historical and law as they relate to magic.

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Yeah, that sounds about right. 1500 is when the press started to really take off, so the higher status Covenants do have them. As for the Lores acting as hermetical or mundane, it depends on if they unlock magical power. Certain Mystery Cults have their powers tied to the relevant Lore, and those cannot be taught via press.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

@Paeniteo Azrael,


Could I get your help on some stuff when you get a chance on steam so I don't keep bothering Kaza?

 

[Paeniteo Azrael]

Sure! Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I was busy yesterday.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Paeniteo Azrael]Sure! Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I was busy yesterday.

[/QUOTE]
I'll be on steam all the way up till game time so if you could poke me as soon as you can.


@Lord of Chaos, I'm moving this out of interest check and into the Chat RP forum.

 

[Exthalion]

I apologize for disappearing. My connection died.


I have done a few calculations:


A circular wall with an outer radius of 1 mile, a thickness of 5 feet, and a height of ten feet is 14482.3377834 cubic paces. So the full circle of the wall would take two castings. At our discretion we could make some or all of the intersections into gates, though someone else will have to provide the gates. Foundation depth will have to come out of the ten high or the 5 thick.


A circular wall 20 feet high and 5 thick, again with no foundation height not included, would have an outer radius of 1824.5 feet.


Also, given the three magnitudes of elaborate design I payed for, it includes full fortifications such as crenelations and bastions as well as low relief carvings on the exterior. Something like this in execution.


http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/3/3e/ILIUM2003.jpg

 

[Paeniteo Azrael]

So in checking everyone's math I found a rather significant problem involved here (at least with the way the spell is worded).


Specifically, 1 cubic pace is ~ 112.6 cubic feet, so ten cubic paces is ~ 1126 cubic feet.


A ring of radius 1800 ft, 20ft tall and 5ft thick is approximately 1.13 x 10^ 6 cubic feet. Approximating the cubic pace as 1.13 x 10^2 cubic feet, you get a ratio of 10,000 - or four orders of magnitude. Thus, the spell to create this ring should be Base 3 + size 2 + size 2*5 + range 3*5 (sight- eye means eye contact not sight, which is two magnitudes higher and is anyways inappropriate for most creation rituals) + target 1 (group) + duration 0 (momentary, ritual so everything lasts regardless) + 3*5 for the elaborateness of the design = 50.


However, the spell should be R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind


Base level 3 + 4 size + 1 touch + 3 elaborate designs = 35 (3 + 2 + 10 + 5 + 15), requiring only 7 pawns of vis. That, or we can increase the size by an entire order of magnitude (18,000 ft radius, which is horribly unnecessary, increase the height and thickness, or have a second wall already built). The only issue is that the spell no longer creates separate objects (not a problem for our current purpose), but this can be evaded by linking separate buildings by an underground line of stone or something like that (negligible contribution to size, though it would arguably use up a part of the elaborate design bonus).


So basically, its your ballpark - the spell in its current form is not castable and will not create what you intend it to create.


By altering the spell without increasing the magnitude, we can create the wall pretty much as is.


But by increasing the magnitude by one more magnitude, we can create both walls, as follows:


Outer wall


Thickness = 10ft


Height = 40 ft


R = 2510 ft


r = 2500 ft


Inner Wall


Thickness = 20ft


Height = 60ft


R = 820ft


r = 800ft


100000×112.6-(pi×2010^2×40-pi×2000^2×40)-(pi×820^2×60-pi×800^2×60) is what you would put into everyone's favorite mathematical solver, Wolfram Alpha - 100,000 is five magnitudes of size, 112.6 is the common pace, and the rest are the formulas for a ring of the respective thicknesses. Basically, pi*h*(R^2-r^2)


Anyways, I'm rambling since it's 3:30 AM and I should go to sleep and stop mathing at things this late at night, but I'm an ornery young man and dammit, I'll stay up late and maths if I want to!


As an addendum, I've input everyone's character sheets into the metacreator files, so everyone is attached at the end of the Covenant sheet. Also I have my companion character, who is spending this season and next writing a book on teaching - I've also flavored the titles of the books and made a simple excel sheet that gives you easily readable, relevant values.


Other things: It helps me keep track of you guys if you tell me how you spend your seasons - and there is a possibility I made a serious error in transcribing your sheet. If you see it, feel free to inform me, and I'll update it to keep the covenant file up to date. Also anyone who can draw should totally draw the covenant realizing that the walls around the covenant will not be a perfect circle at all.


Also, in answer to the inevitable question - yes I just stayed up late to math the hell out of a spell in an RPG game. No, there isn't any particular reason beyond the sado-masochistic pleasure of doing math.

 

[Exthalion]

Yes, I realized the other night that the group target was a waste from a size standpoint. Your numbers are slightly off, as the roman pace is 4.84167 feet instead of 4.8 which starts to matter when you throw orders of magnitude around. This gives a cubic pace equal to 114.482588709 cubic feet.


I suggest we keep your proposed wall sizes and use the extra stone this gives us for the purposes of improving the fortification of the walls and gates.


Edit: Also, Target group is +2, not +1. The part target is +1.


Good catch on the eye target, your right that I had mistaken it for sight.


As for the need for connection, it shouldn't prove to be a problem for structure creation given that paving the space between them should deal with that requirement.


Edit 2: Also, the formula you gave appears to be off. Shouldn't it be ((pi×2010^2×40-pi×2000^2×40)+(pi×820^2×60-pi×800^2×60))/112.6 ? That gives a result of 98990.9 which is very near the newly calculated volume.


When I used the corrected ft^3 to pace^3 ratio wolfram output 97363 and change which gives us approximately 2637 for embellishments.


Edit 3: Okay I feel mean now. I think the problem with the formula was that you hit - instead of = and now I look nitpicky. Still, we do have more cubic space...

 

[Paeniteo Azrael]

We have quite a bit more cubic space, you can also just use cubic passi in wolfram and it makes everything nice and round so long as you ensure you use ft were appropriate.


It's not nitpicky, I was playing around with round numbers that looked nice, but really the issue was the range and such of the spell.


Basic gist is that by modifying the spell, we have both walls in a larger form, that are more fortified. Also this is going to be the most ridiculously sized castle in the new world ever.

 

[Exthalion]

Columbus built the first, we built the best.


However, come winter I think we are going to be interested in another ritual to give us somewhere to live fit for human beings.


Edit: Along that line, I think we can just about get the Domus Aurea in one casting, especially if we include the artificial lake and the pastures. Given that the spell doesn't produce precious metals or semi precious stones, we will just have to settle for glass work, mosaics, and intricate carving.


Edit 2: We do need to be careful in considerations of non-solid applications. When I calculated the volume of the example mystic tower in the spell, I included the empty space inside the building.


Also, a question: Can one spell be sufficiently general so as to produce both walls and buildings? Does the elaborate design price grant this general quality if it was not normally present?

 

[Lord of Chaos]

For the first, you'd need the Group modifier to create two different things.


For the second, I'd say yes, but you'd need to make a Finesse check as normal for magical shaping/crafting

 

[Exthalion]

Given the very arbitrary definition of thing, to what extent can that condition be modified through the use of the proposed underground connecting beam/tunnel or paved space connection? Assuming they are all one piece of stone, are two buildings with a plaza between them one thing?

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Yes, but it would increase the difficulty of the finesse check

 

[The Dark Wizard]

@Lord of Chaos, I don't recall if it was ever answered but it was asked during the game.


Is there a way for everyone to work on a ritual or spell and each party member contribute a different req?

 

[SephirothSage]

Wow this is Math.

 

[Exthalion]

Wow this is Math.

Indeed: This! Is! Math!


All hail Pi! Irrationality for the Irrational Number! Transcendence for the Transcendental Ratio!

 

[SephirothSage]

..... Just as Planned.

 

[Lord of Chaos]

[QUOTE="The Dark Wizard]@Lord of Chaos, I don't recall if it was ever answered but it was asked during the game.
Is there a way for everyone to work on a ritual or spell and each party member contribute a different req?

[/QUOTE]
Not that I can tell. However, you can use Vis to enhance ritual spells as normal, so you can use that to mitigate requisites

 

[Exthalion]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]Not that I can tell. However, you can use Vis to enhance ritual spells as normal, so you can use that to mitigate requisites

[/QUOTE]
I see where Vis can be used to increase your casting score. Is there a way to directly use it for requisites or do you mean that you use that to boost your score to where you can still cast it even with the lower requisite scores?

 

[Lord of Chaos]

the second one

 

[Paeniteo Azrael]

Also be aware that the maximum amount of vis you can spend in a spell is equal to the art score of the vis used in the spells (e.g., if your Creo score was 7, and your Vim score was 4, and you were casting a level 15 ritual spell, you would have to spend 3 pawns for the magnitude of the ritual, and could spend another 8 enhancing the casting total so long as you used at most 4 Vim pawns and 7 Creo pawns).

 

[Exthalion]

Since I had a little time, I threw something together. Its a description of the scene for the casting for the walls.

Spoiler

After returning from the investigation of the tree there had been a short discussion between the magi concerning the work that needed to be done to prepare the covenant. Eyes had turned toward him as he spoke of his skill in the creation of such things. Of the various structures proposed, one choice had the favor of the council. Though he had not objected strongly, Alhacen had been mildly annoyed by the sheer mundanity of what he was called to do. Walls were useful and needful, he had no disagreement on that point, but he had hoped his first great ritual would have produced something more spectacular. Without a sigh, such things were unbecoming, he resolved to make these things worthy of being called Alhacen’s Walls.


Setting off toward the still unpacked baggage, the magus called four grogs to him. Among his carefully packed belongings there was one box of special importance. Cedar wood bound with iron, it required two men to lift though Alhacen had never risked so few with it. Now he direct the servants to bring it to the site chosen for the new fortifications.


At the very top of the tower, after carefully opening it, Alhacen bent down and reverently freed the item within from its soft cushion. It was a curious item, gimbaled rings of gilded brass holding lens of the finest quality and exquisitely incised symbols of magic and astrology. As the sun reached its zenith he cried out, “La ilaha illa Allah!” and, with only the slightest hesitation, threw the thing into the air.


As it rose, its many rings spun, causing blinding flashes to project from it when it aligned just so. When it reached the very top of its flight, that moment of stillness before the fall, it halted. That very moment the sky turned black and the whole of the covenant was engulfed in darkness. Even fire shone no more than the barest ember though its heat was undiminished.


While Alhacen began his journey down the tower’s spiral steps, seeming heedless of the shining thing he had left behind, the device released a torrent of luminous threads that broke in the sky and wove themselves into scenes and epics of men and mages. As the living constellations relived their legends he exited the tower and walked toward the road, counting his steps as he went. When he reached the first circle he turned upward and lifted his hand as though to grasp the stars. At once, an inner portion of the great display fell to earth like lightning onto and around him in a storm of fire. With measured patience he began to walk the first circuit. In his wake the light wove itself into a tapestry of snow-white granite, the stories in the sky frozen on the surfaces in low relief.


When he returned to where he had started, the wave around him crashing against the trailing edge of the wall in an arched fortress he again turned from the still-weaving star until he stood two thousand feet from where he began. Again he reached up, and again he drew down the heavens. For an hour he walked until the sun and stars had reclaimed sole dominion of the sky. His man made star darkened and fell gentle as a feather into its case.


Though the work was done, the sky was still dark as night. Nearly two days would pass, the illumination returning hour by hour, until the natural course of things was restored. Only then did Alhacen say, “Now, it is done.”

 

[Paeniteo Azrael]

Curious question: In the Apprentices book, there is a formula detailing how to "teach" virtues, both major and minor. You can get them just by exposure to arcane instruction for ten seasons, and you can get them through being taught one on one in a single season if the teacher (who must have the virtue in question) has a Com + Teaching + 3 + 6 for 1:1 instruction of 15 or more for minor virtues, or 21 or more for major virtues.


Would you be willing to allow us to do such things, so long as we don't abuse it wholesale Kaza?


Edit: Oh, and I changed what I did with my season, I spent it studying the Creo summa.


And @Hadoland , I am going to make your character a ring that allows you to create words in people's heads when you make eye contact with them. I just need one more pawn of creo vis...

 

[Lord of Chaos]

That sounds reasonable. You agree not to break and and I'll try to make it fun.

 

[Exthalion]

I noticed that we have five grogs but that what they do isn't detailed. Would it be permissible to stat one of them up as my forge companion?