Other "Why won't anyone roleplay with me?"

[zippy]

I have been role playing almost as long, and I can tell you all that it is the people, not the story, or the GM.

People lack any form of professionalism when it comes to writing and story telling. That's not what you wanted to hear, but it is very much an absolute fact. People treat commitments, well, like they aren't commitments at all. I understand that things will happen, and it's just RP; Lives come first. But people will get excited, join your RP, and then ghost out like a phantom because interest dwindled, or their character wasn't the center of the universe. Most players have absolutely no professionalism or capacity to work as part of a team. Being in a team doesn't always mean you get full say over every aspect of what your characters gets to do, where they go, how they die. I miss the days when Game Masters knew what they were doing, had a plan, and enforced, because it is there story and no one forced you to join.

I love controlling GMs, because I know this is going to be a real, cohesive story. it won't be several people aimlessly splashing around shallow water until it burns out within a few weeks. Give me material, give me options, challenge me, force my hand now and then. That's the essence of rpg gaming, and what makes us grow as writers and creators. And honestly, 6-8 randos floating around a sandbox is not something I find appealing or fun at my age, and given how my creative tastes have grown over the years. There is nothing worse than floater RPs where every meaningless moment is dragged out by directionless over-posting. This is why you get ghosted, rofl. I'm so sorry, but it's so true.

I've always made my own RPs, joined very few that were created by others. I think I joined 2 RPs in my lifetime. The only time I ever had problems with recruitment is since arriving here, a rusty, beat up old shell of a writer. Few of my pitches had a good response, but they were the kinds of stories that contained a certain amount of structure. I knew where they were going, and that turns people off for most people, because if they can't do whatever they want, whenever they want, they throw an internal hissy fit over their expressive and artistic rights. "How dare that tyrannical scumbag tell me what's going to happen now and then in their own story! I don't have to stand for this. I quit!" It's like please, you whiny primadonna, save the theatrics for your career in Hollywood.

Can you imagine playing a DnD campaign and stopping the Master mid-introduction. "No no! Snow doesn't suit my character. We're going to be in a dry, hot desert region."

You'd end up play at home, by yourself, because no one would tolerate that level of self-centered shenanigans. Writing isn't always about total freedom and control. That's the lazy, cheap way out in terms of RP. No one is suggesting voices can't be heard and impact the process, that's been going on since the dawn of play by post. I swear society began subscribing to one extreme or the other, giving no consideration to middle ground.

I disagree that this type of mentality that you laid out is selfish. Professionalism may be important to you, but that doesn’t mean it’s the end all be all or the superior form of roleplay. Whilst you personally may enjoy controlling GMs, I understand those who feel like their toes are being stepped on. I usually ignore responses but the main thing that rubbed me the wrong way was this sentence:

“How dare that tyrannical scumbag tell me what's going to happen now and then in their own story!“

A lot of RPers feel that it is not the GMs story. Not completely at least. That’s why you RP in a group. To share the story and to draw influence that you may not have been able to think of on your own. If it’s “your story”, why not just go write a book?

As far as “professionalism”, you said it yourself even. For the vast majority of those on site this is just a hobby. Saying that sandbox RPing is the reason people get ghosted is disingenuous at best and possibly hurtful to some at worst. There really isn’t a form of RP that is better than another. Some people like sandbox, and some enjoy heavy handed structure. Both are okay! In fact, on this site at least, the longest lasting RP that I’ve seen is a superhero vs villain story that’s been going on for a few years now that seems to be a very loose, sandbox RP.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

zippy By their own story, I mean one they created. Setting, lore, plot. They created this thing, and I would hope they did so with some level of vision. A vision I've offered my toes to, not to be stepped on, but to participate, and yes, contribute.

Again, there is a place known as middle ground... I don't subscribe to any extreme.

It's not disingenuous at all. When people join only to fade away, that's an issue of professionalism. How seriously you take this whole thing, let alone your fellow writer, and the story they created. I don't care if it's hurtful.

 

[rae2nerdy]

M.J. Saulnier I also think that a better way to convey the point isn't professionalism but communication and interpersonal skills. A roleplay lives and dies on communication and your ability to work well with others. That has nothing to do with the specific types of roleplay you do or how a specific story is set up.

You can have a silly simple slice of life that succeeds purely because the people in the group/1x1 actually talk to one another and have compatible interests. You can also have a extremely detailed roleplay where the GM has a multi-act story planned and it will fail miserably if the people involved don't communicate well or work together as a team.

It's what I talked about previously, in order for a roleplay to succeed the people have to get along. They have to be able to talk to one another and get on the same page so everyone is enjoying themselves. How that enjoyment manifests in terms of specific mechanics (how the story is formatted, how detailed/organized it is, etc.) is going to vary based on individual preference.

And so if you focus so much on treating this as "professionalism vs. laziness" than your missing the point. This isn't a job. I'm not getting paid to write on this site. So therefore professionalism has nothing to do with whether my roleplay is successful or not. Now sure some aspects of good interpersonal skills, problem-solving, and communication will help you. But not because their "professional" skills but because their skills for dealing with people in a social context. Which is exactly what this hobby is. It's a social interaction that happens to involve writing.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

M.J. Saulnier I also think that a better way to convey the point isn't professionalism but communication and interpersonal skills. A roleplay lives and dies on communication and your ability to work well with others. That has nothing to do with the specific types of roleplay you do or how a specific story is set up.

Same umbrella, Middleagedgeek. That falls under the realm of professionalism in story telling. That is only one part of it - a major one - but only one.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Same umbrella, Middleagedgeek. That falls under the realm of professionalism in story telling. That is only one part of it - a major one - but only one.

But it that's the wrong word is my point. Most people see professionalism in context of you getting paid actual money to complete a task. So therefore putting forth your idea in terms of interpersonal skills/communication will get your point across better.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

But it that's the wrong word is my point. Most people see professionalism in context of you getting paid actual money to complete a task. So therefore putting forth your idea in terms of interpersonal skills/communication will get your point across better.

What I'm referring to is about more than just interpersonal skills/communication. That's what I'm telling you. I said what I said because I meant it.

 

[rae2nerdy]

What I'm referring to is about more than just interpersonal skills/communication. That's what I'm telling you. I said what I said because I meant it.

But this isn't a job so there is no such thing as a professional way to perform a hobby. That's like saying that you can read a book in a professional or unprofessional way. Or you can watch a TV show in a professional or unprofessional way. Or you can knit a scarf in a professional or unprofessional way.

And pretty much the only way that the word professional makes since in that context is - You can do an activity to make money or not make money. And in that case roleplay is something you do for no money and therefore it's very nature is unprofessional.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

You're splitting hairs over a word you don't fully understand. I'm talking about a professional attitude and mentality when approaching someone's role play, hosting your own, and how you look at story telling in general.

Qualities of professionalism include:

• Competency
• Honesty and Integrity
• Accountability
• Self-Regulation***

It doesn't mean you have to be getting paid in this context. It's how you carry yourself and treat situations.

 

[rae2nerdy]

You're splitting hairs over a word you don't fully understand. I'm talking about a professional attitude and mentality when approaching someone's role play, hosting your own, and how you look at story telling in general.

Qualities of professionalism include:

• Competency
• Honesty and Integrity
• Accountability
• Self-Regulation***

It doesn't mean you have to be getting paid in this context. It's how you carry yourself and treat situations.

Which is interpersonal communication. All of that is stuff you work out by just talking to your partner and getting on the same page. Which was MY point. You are sitting there lecturing people because they aren't entering a hobby with the same mentality that they would their actual job. And the reason is not because they are incapable of bringing the bullets above into roleplaying. But because they would consider that COMMUNICATING not acting professionally.

Maybe don't assume everyone is going to automatically know what the heck your talking about when you throw around words that don't fit into the context of a situation.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

You are sitting there lecturing people because they aren't entering a hobby with the same mentality that they would their actual job.

Except this isn't collecting stamps. This isn't painting model cars. This is creative writing with other human beings. If you don't treat it differently based on that alone, you really are selfish.

Maybe don't assume everyone is going to automatically know what the heck your talking about when you throw around words that don't fit into the context of a situation.

I apologize for assuming you'd know what professionalism means.


I think my initial point has proven itself, as usual.

 

[rae2nerdy]

M.J. Saulnier If you think of hobbies as solo activities that might be part of the problem right there. Hobbies don't have to be solo activities. People can absolutely have a hobby around interacting with other humans based on a shared interest. Which is incidentally exactly what roleplaying is.

My point is this - You think of this in terms of professionalism. It's the same I used to think of post length in terms of literate vs. non-literate. In the old site I was on that is literally how things were divided. Your literate roleplays where ones where you had replies that were more than three paragraphs. You had semi-literate roleplays that were about a paragraph per post. Then you had your non-literate roleplays that were basically one-liners.

Now I came to this site and learned pretty quickly that no one had that context for the word literate. Indeed people often got confused and asked why I was asking for people who could read and write. As ya know obviously being on a text based website sort of assumes that you're literate.

So it's the same idea. Your using the word professionalism with the assumption that everyone is going to understand it in the context you are trying to convey it in. And we're just saying - Nah fam that isn't how we describe things on this site.

I would say most likely what you want is people to be courtesous and committed to roleplays. That's it. You want them to treat each other with respect and communicate properly to the other people in the roleplay. And you want them to stick around even when things get hard.

You can just use the words - courtesy and commitment for that. As it pretty much conveys your essential point without needlessly having to argue with people about whether a hobby should be treated with professionalism.

 

[rae2nerdy]

M.J. Saulnier Also to be clear I'm not exactly disagreeing with your main point I'm more so saying you could use a better word to describe it.

I also think that commitment can come in many different ways. I had a partner for several years that pretty much never got off page one of a roleplay. She was forgetful and constantly coming up with new ideas. But she was also one of my most loyal and favorite roleplay partners.

Because she was EXTREMELY communicative and would let you know - Hey I'm sorry this real life thing has come up that I have to deal with. Or ugh I'm having trouble with this particular post. Or Bleh I'm bored with this idea, do you mind doing another one?

Now for some people this would be a nightmare partner who would send them running for the hills. But since at the time I was also in a pretty hectic place in real life I never minded. And because the two of us got along so well out of character I was always willing to work with her when she struggled.

Like not everyone in the world needs a detailed story in order to be happy. Nor does commitment necessarily always mean you have to stick to one idea to the bitter end. Sometimes it just means keeping people in the loop on your life. Or being content to write up a few scenes once a month to unwind from the stresses of every day life.

 

[Dutch]

They never said roleplay was solo or even thinks it's solo. They're right there needs to be a sense of professionalism, decorum and respect for the game/writing. People can still be chill, casual, but they gotta approach roleplaying as something of the team activity that it is. Which means acting professionally with respect for the other people/their preferences/the story that is being approached, patience and consideration when writing (which has nothing to do with amount written just that some care should be taken, some thought).

I agree with M.J. Saulnier a part of the problem is people don't come into a search with some professionalism, I don't want to say they act childish but some people do go into it with a me-me-me attitude and that isn't conducting themselves with professionalism and decorum.

 

[rae2nerdy]

They never said roleplay was solo or even thinks it's solo. They're right there needs to be a sense of professionalism, decorum and respect for the game/writing. People can still be chill, casual, but they gotta approach roleplaying as something of the team activity that it is; regardless of their preferences. Which means acting professionally with respect for the other people/their preferences/the story that is being approached, patience and consideration when writing (which has nothing to do with amount written just that some care should be taken, some thought).

I agree with M.J. Saulnier a part of the problem is people don't come into a search with some professionalism, I don't want to say they act childish but some people do go into it with a me-me-me attitude and that isn't conducting themselves with professionalism and decorum.

And I still think the word courtesy works better in that context. Because that's basically all your asking for. People need to be courtesous and understand not everything is about them. Nothing particularly professional about that.

 

[Dutch]

And I still think the word courtesy works better in that context. Because that's basically all your asking for. People need to be courtesous and understand not everything is about them. Nothing particularly professional about that.

Maybe, I think both words work.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Maybe, I think both words work.

Fair enough. As I said I'm not arguing with the idea just the word usage. I do think that sometimes people can be a little selfish but I think a bigger problem is people who just don't know how to communicate. I can't tell you how many roleplays have died abruptly because someone got offended that I couldn't read their mind about what they wanted and just bailed on me. Usually after some passive aggressive ish about me being a bad partner.

 

[Dutch]

Which kind of falls under both being courteous and acting with a sense of professionalism. If that person where to act professional they would simply have said, lets say something like: "thanks for your time and effort, but I think I'm going to move on this isn't what I'm looking for." Which is both courteous and "professional" acting with decorum, respect and communicating effectively without being a turd.

But yeah, it's an issue with a lots of contributing factors that can be quite nuanced. So I agree with you both on the various issues it's quit messy.

 

[scorpiodragon]

scorpiodragon

Have people told you they don't prefer you because of your age? While I admit the RPN demographic---and a lot of the roleplaying community in general is on the younger side---there's still a good amount of folks in their 30s and even 40s out there who roleplay often. It may be harder to find people, but not totally impossible.

Not really but I always see when in like one x one searches something along the lines of "Hi I'm a _______ and prefer to role play with someone in my age group" or "I only role play with people 18 to 25" for example.

I'm in my thirties too and my age isn't much of a factor. I will admit I am like you and I want to RP with people who are closer to my age, because lets face it sometimes it gets awkward RP with someone who is 10 - 13 years younger than you, and not so much the RPing as the OOC chatting where you start to feel your age! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut there are places, maybe not RPN so much, where the members are older making it easier to find a partner your own age.



I can admit I sometimes look back 10 years with real thick rose colored glasses. I've actually gone back to my old stomping grounds and I realize the frequency in which I RP'd verse spent time searching for an RP is exactly the same as now. It basically I spend almost all my time looking for just the right kinda partner, than I do actually RPing.

It's been 3 years since I had the best RP partner of the last decade . . . and I have spent 3 years since searching. Most of my RP's are short lived, partners come and go, and nothings really been all that grand . . . but that is pretty par for what my old experiences were too, I can recall every successful RP (1/1 and group) I've ever done and between most of them are years of mediocre roleplaying that all blends together!

But I feel ya it can ware on you specially when you're REALLY in the mood to roleplay and no one is really hitting all your high points. It's frustrating thinking what you really want is so simple, but somehow NO ONE seems to be able to have it all. Yet you know deep down you've had it all, you've had great partners, it is possible . . . but like never when you want it most! >D

Someone said grass is greener, and I agree it really is.

My longest lasting RP on RPN was my RP Clover Hills...until we moved it to a hosting group which was agreed upon in our discord and then everyone suddenly drops off the face of the earth and no longer responded to it/disappeared without even an acknowledgement of dropping out. So I know I'll never do HP again on RPN, least of all any RPs I create. Even after we had gotten werecats agreed upon in an otherwise werewolf RP.

The reason I'm not comfortable with RP'ing with teenagers is because I don't want to be RP'ing with someone (say in their early to mid teens) and have someone's parent try to sue me or whatever for talking/RP'ing with their kid and potentially end up in jail. So it's more safety concerns on both parts that causes me to avoid that young demographic.

 

[Dutch]

The reason I'm not comfortable with RP'ing with teenagers is because I don't want to be RP'ing with someone (say in their early to mid teens) and have someone's parent try to sue me or whatever for talking/RP'ing with their kid and potentially end up in jail. So it's more safety concerns on both parts that causes me to avoid that young demographic.

I mean that is part of why most of us don't RP with minors. Protect them and myself from any, though very unlikely, legal issues.

But I think most adults want to RP with adults. You know. Play with people your own age.

 

[Dutch]

My longest lasting RP on RPN was my RP Clover Hills...until we moved

I can attest to the fact that moving an RP from it's original locale will definitely kill it regardless of consensus. Every successful RP I've ever tried to take from one site to another platform dies it's sort of just like a thing. It's really disruptive for players and flow. So I understand why that killed it.

 

[scorpiodragon]

I mean that is part of why most of us don't RP with minors. Protect them and myself from any, though very unlikely, legal issues.

But I think most adults want to RP with adults. You know. Play with people your own age.

One would think so. It lasted for 6 months and that was through pushing it through with responses and eventually making a required 1 week post or you get kicked out/your characters killed off. Yeah that was unfortunate and really bummed me out. I don't bother revising old RPs when they die, I know they'll just fail again and i had already done this twice with Clover Hills after the original GM disappeared for months on end...eventually changing everything so it was my own concept. A shame because I had a ton of plots for that.

Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen an RP have a definite beginning/plot or plots/conclusion scenario.

 

[Sludge]

Cough, someone Also said all you need to do is shower before you look for a rp partner and dammit I think I’m right.
I have at least... one roleplay active and I shower somewhat regularly

Facts.

This is how you find your D&D group. Smell nice. Then check if they smell nice.

 

[NeonFlow]

I’ll build a house brick by brick made from your happiness, cemented with your dreams just to run a bulldozer of my hopes through it to prove the point that apples cant be compared to oranges cause triangles have three sides and the blood of a rattlesnake makes the perfect mixer to some sour mash of justice if one has enough fireworks to blind Will Smith’s family.

Salt, Good god where's my salt?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Which kind of falls under both being courteous and acting with a sense of professionalism. If that person where to act professional they would simply have said, lets say something like: "thanks for your time and effort, but I think I'm going to move on this isn't what I'm looking for." Which is both courteous and "professional" acting with decorum, respect and communicating effectively without being a turd.

But yeah, it's an issue with a lots of contributing factors that can be quite nuanced. So I agree with you both on the various issues it's quit messy.

I think the problem is not everyone on this site is mature enough to think of it in those terms. Most of the people I'm talking about wouldn't even see what they did as discourteous in the first place. They know they're unhappy without knowing how to articulate why. Which is why I focus on communication so much as that is at least something I have control over. I can't make someone more professional but as communicating is a two way street I can at least start a conversation with them and hope they hold up their end of the bargain.

That said I do think that courtesy in general is definately a big deal. In big and small ways. Not only just being courteous in the sense of letting someone know when you'll be gone or when things aren't working. But also just like not being a hateful asshole. I've had that happen when people all but start cursing at me when things don't go their way. Now that is definately unprofessional and uncalled for. You don't like me, leave the PM. Don't be a dick.

 

[Dutch]

Okay.