Who are more powerful.

[Persell]

of all celestial exalted whos the most powerful, in your opinon.

 

[Persell]

Meh whats the point of the poll. we all know that the solars are the end of the food chain. perfect effects. solar circle sorcery...

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Is there a consensus on what Lunars do better than the other 'Celestials,' other than shapeshifting?


 One can argue that Solars excel at all things, Siddies are best at MA and shaping fate, and Abyssals are best at sheer destruction. Is there something corresponding for Lunars, or are they just the Solars' bitches?

 

[Obsidian Soul]

Solars and Lunars are pretty well matched as the Lunars have DBT.  An Essence 10 Solar can have a maximum Strength of 10.  An Essence 10 Lunar with a specifically designed DBT could potentially have a Strength of 44.  While a Solar has exclusive access to Solar Sorcery, it takes three turns to cast a Solar Circle Spell.  If an Essence 10 Lunar cannot get to the Solar in two turns and eliminate them, the Lunar does not deserve to live.

 

[Flagg]

Why do people constantly assume that "power" = "would win a fight"?


-S

 

[memesis]

One reason is that politics, economics, and all the other metrics of "power" usually boil down to getting someone else to do something (or not do something) in accordance with your wishes.  This someone else may be an entire nation or a single rival.


Let's say that America had its very own Night Caste commando.  Regime change?  No problem.  Bump off the Iranian hard-liners, bump off the warmongers in India and Pakistan, bump off the aggressive rivals in Israel and Palestine, bump off Al-Quaeda, until people around the world come to realize that even saying "I think nukes would be nice" is writing your own death sentence in 30 days.  No more sanctions, no blood-for-oil-for-food programs, no more propping up right-wing dictatorships just because they hate Communists too.


However, just being able to kill anyone you want does not in itself lead to a more productive, more advanced, or better society.  My money's on a Solar being better at this particular task than anyone else.


To answer a specific question:  Lunars get shapeshifting, which is like a very personal version of what astrology is good for.  While the Sidereals may be able to kung-fu demons and make the crops good for everyone in the kingdom, people may not know until years later that their beloved chieftain was a Changing Moon who arranged for real greatness to come to the tribal confederation, or know that the king whose kingdom was defeated by the tribes was that very same Changing Moon.

 

[Jukashi]

If they're smart, Lunars can do more with less. A Solar would need seperate charms to steal a guy's weapon from five meters away, hit him from five meters away, pull themselves up onto a rooftop or effectively scratch themselves on the back.


Lunars just grow their arm out.

 

[wordman]

Is there a consensus on what Lunars do better than the other 'Celestials' date='' other than shapeshifting?[/quote']
Sort of a loaded question. You're essentially asking "Is there a consensus on what Lunars do better than the other 'Celestials,' other than what Lunars do better than the other 'Celestials'?"

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Entirely my point.


 Way back when, when Exalted was just the BWB and the SC, there was apparently some kind of idea of the Lunars as tricksters and illusionists--a touch of the fey, from all their time in the Wyld.


 When the hardsplat was released, that apparently went by the wayside.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Versatility over specialization in my book.  Solars would win in that case over Lunars.  Sure, the Lunar is more versatile in their area of specialization, but would the Lunar in question be swatted down by a powerful or effectively placed Solar charm before they got within "arms reach" so to speak?  You want a Solar to get into a wrestling match with a Lunar, yeah, the Lunar is probably going to win, all things being equivalent in power levels because they're designed to be melee combat monkeys.  There is so much more to being a Solar than just kicking someone's ass.  I'm certain that cleansing an area of a Shadowland has more effect on the storyline than beating up the goons that lurk inside of it.  I'm sure it would piss the presiding Deathlord off more to have his Shadowland cleansed than to be beaten in personal combat as well.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

A new shadowland, six hundred square miles: thirteen hundred ghosts pitched into the Void.


 A soulsteel grand daiklave, with special powers: nine hundred ghosts pitched into the Void.


 A soulsteel Royal 'Strider, with a 5-dot AI: seven thousand ghosts pitched into the Void.


 Gaining your pride back after a humiliating defeat at the hands of an Exalt: priceless.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Some things, souls can't buy.  For everything else, there's Essence.

 

[wordman]

When the hardsplat was released' date=' that apparently went by the wayside.[/quote']
They brought some (not all) of it back, deeply hidden in the Fair Folk book. A lunar that manages to get a steady supply of gossamer (no easy task) can be pretty scary.

 

[Solfi]

I must admit I didn't give the FF fatsplat the attention it needed, so... please elaborate?

 

[Persell]

Lunars can learn Fair Folk charms. Same rules as for Eclipses and Moonshadows. You need to have a Grace forged for you first; an interesting problem in itself considering that the forger of a Grace is its initial owner, not the person for whom it was forged.


You want details check page 106.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

They can also buy glamour sorcery, oaths, and behemoths as backgrounds.

 

[wordman]

It's glamour sorcery that really gives them back the "illusionist" cachet, especially with Undectible Lie built into it. Still needs gossamer, though. Basic info here. Please expand it.


If you take the sample three-dot glamour sorcery from the FF book and change it to be "lost in the woods", you get a fairly decent Big Bad Wolf or trickster vibe going.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

The basic info's pretty comprehensive; really, unless the ST allows the Lunar to purchase Gossamer as a background (at base or inflated costs), it's a pain for Lunars to acquire Gossamer personally.

 

[riven5]

Solars and Lunars are pretty well matched as the Lunars have DBT.  An Essence 10 Solar can have a maximum Strength of 10.  An Essence 10 Lunar with a specifically designed DBT could potentially have a Strength of 44.  While a Solar has exclusive access to Solar Sorcery' date=' it takes three turns to cast a Solar Circle Spell.  If an Essence 10 Lunar cannot get to the Solar in two turns and eliminate them, the Lunar does not deserve to live.[/quote']
Except that Lunars take *way* more xp to get the point where they can match up against an essence 10 than Solars.  If all things are equal age wise, the Solar will almost certainly always win in any competition...unless you're competing over who can become a squirrel the fastest...


Or unless you are talking about combat at chargen, in which case Lunars are t3h rulez.

 

[Jukashi]

That's sort of in-theme isn't it? Solars are about skill, the things you learn. Lunars are all about talent, the stuff you start with.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Well put, Jukashi.

 

[riven5]

Fo sho.  I was just pointing out that Lunars and Solars aren't on even ground in the least after xp starts coming into play.

 

[Persell]

As mentioned earlier, the notion of power is totally subjective but most people seem to translate power to sheer combat ability.


However, the fact that about a hundred sidereals managed to kill thousands of solars, drive an equal amount of lunars to the fringe of creation and subjugate hundreds of thousands of DBed through societal and governmental reform (all without getting their hands dirty, I might add), all within a short period of time, would suggest that the sidereals are bad ass whether they can learn FF glamours or not.

 

[Persell]

As mentioned earlier, the notion of power is totally subjective but most people seem to translate power to sheer combat ability.
However, the fact that about a hundred sidereals managed to kill thousands of solars, drive an equal amount of lunars to the fringe of creation and subjugate hundreds of thousands of DBed through societal and governmental reform (all without getting their hands dirty, I might add), all within a short period of time, would suggest that the sidereals are bad ass whether they can learn FF glamours or not.

they did not kill thousands of solars cause that many simply do not exist. and they did not drive the lunars to the fringe of creation, the lunars decided to step down. the lunars could have ended the usurpation in favour for the solars.

 

[riven5]

Well, over time the Sidereals have certainly slain thousands of Solars, just as, over time, they have ruled over hundreds of thousands of Dragon-Blooded.  I think that was the point.


As far as the Lunars being decisive in saving the Deliberative...who knows?  The Sidereals, I'd wager...


The Lunars did choose to go to the reaches of Creation...but it wasn't much of a choice.  If they had stayed they would've been slaughtered by the Dragon-Blooded and the Sidereals, just as the more-powerful Solars were.  The Lunars chose to resign from Creation, rather than be fired.