Unimagination ruining games

[LaFreeze]

I'm having some trouble lately. I'm playing D&D 3.5 with some friends of mine for the benefit of my brother who is away and we're trying to make sure he doesn't feel isolated while he is abroad.


However my group is very..... linear. When we were playing Science Fiction games they had no trouble at least trying to come up with crazy plot and plans. They caused distractions, improvised explosives, came up with clever lies, ran away when they were at a disadvantage and so on and so forth. They were not always good ideas mind you but they always had ideas.


However playing D&D they seem to think their only option is to stab things. They all play warrior classes, they don't look at equipment lists, they didn't even think to take a bow or something and they constantly forget about their own abilities or magic items unless they deal direct damage. We've had a huge number of fatalities due this mode of thought and they haven't seemed to change at all. When given the chance to get items they opted to get more weapons and armor despite a recent string of deaths do to poor saving throws and a simple failure to realize they were at a tactical disadvantage.


I really would like to play Exalted with this group but I fear they'll die even faster in exalted, like the first time someone makes a social attack when they all used social skills for dump stats. Any advice on trying to get the group into the right mindset to try Exalted?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Get them to watch some of the movies from the suggested reading, show some of the videos from the Exalted Videos thread over on the WWBB: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5615


Also, consider running the Tomb of Five Corners starter adventure. The characters there ISTR are all well-balanced (for WW anyway) with a mix of choppy-stabby-killy types and talky-talky-take-over-your-mind-and-use-you-like-a-hand-puppet types.


An alternative to the worry that they will get walked over in social combat is to let them experience 'white room' social combat. I did this for some players of mine. I had them find a manse of a First Age Deliberator and he had a hologlyphic training room with mental archetypes of various famous characters of the First Age to practice his oratory against. They were able to employ 'Charm-like effects' which lasted as long as you were in the simulation to provide the correct level of difficulty to the user.


Captain Hesperus

 

[LaFreeze]

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Plague of Hats]

Have you attempted to or considered straight up just talking to them about the potential problem?

 

[LaFreeze]

Yes, it did not go well. One suggested I was acting condescending saying they were simpletons somehow and complained if there was a problem it was because D&D's combat was too complicated which was stifling their creativity. Since I consider D&D combat to be fairly easy compared to most games and they were all playing either fighters, rangers or paladins which are fairly strait forward I really have nothing to go on from that. We just have very different view points somehow on what makes a game simple or not. (Note this fellow is normally cool so I'm not sure where the condescending thing came from.) The others just shrugged and simply had nothing to say on the subject either way.


In short from what I gather they don't think they are doing anything different so that makes it difficult to just openly discuss it when they can't see what I, see as we have no common basis to discuss the situation. I think the implication here might be I'm not giving them enough to work with but I've tried several times to suggest they get some supplies and utility items to no avail.


I don't want to start them into Exalted and have the same problems because I think they'll assume Exalted just isn't fun and I'll never get them to try it again.


It occurs to me as I write this, perhaps having them play in the more Scifi Autochtonia as Alchemicals rather than starting them off as Solars in the more fantasy Creation might be the way to go. Maybe I could spin it as almost being Star Gate like as they visit creation (rather then implying creation is the norm) to help get them into the Scifi mindset where they seem to thrive.

 

[vinom]

I've been in a similar situation... You could consider starting them off as enlightened mortals, having them draw from a hat which Terrestrial Martial arts they practice, then give them a fighting tournament with a behind the scenes murder mystery (White veil is probably doing it), get them in a Wulin/Kung Fu Hustle mind set when it comes to such things as both combat and party roll (No one is pure fighter).


That worked in my group, breaking the stagnation we had after a long DnD campaign that degraded into a table top stratagy game.

 

[captmadjaq]

I have the same problem, but in reverse. My group is used to DnD and when I showed them Exalted they were...well, stunting confused them. With the structure of feats, special abilities, and benefits from class gone they had no idea what to do. One player couldn't even comprehend how dice pools work. It's just simple counting.


This is how I handled the issue and got them Exalted education. I created a simple story, nothing fancy and complicated with setting. It was just a simple 'save the town from stupidity' adventure. And here, I'll even share the synopsis for you.


It took place in Nexus. A local, rich merchant bought his snooty princess of a daughter a tyrant lizard because she whined over and over that she wanted one. For some reason she thought it was cute like a gecko, and when she saw that it wasn't, she let it go. With an angry and scared house tall beast on the loose in Nexus the players had to solve the dilemma in a heroic and epic way.


From what I'm reading, I think your players may like Exalted. Just start simple, maybe leave out motivations and intimacies, and then when they get a feel for the game put slowly put them back.


I hope I helped.

 

[LaFreeze]

I certainly appreciate the advice, but I fear they won't even be willing to wrap their heads around charms (I have to memorize HOW MANY CHARMS? None, just get familiar with the ones you want to take. Oh no! If I don't memorize all of them you'll use them against me! No, don't worry that bad guys have their own charms. $*#@ you mean there are even MORE charms than the one in this book???? How am I supposed to memorize all those too! You aren't just play the game!) and if you drop those you are not really playing exalted.

 

[Arhra]

Just tell them they're feats.


Or perhaps start them as uber newbie Exalted and just give them a few excellencies and maybe one or two special charms?

 

[LaFreeze]

Well I think that is what the Tomb of 5 corners is for.

 

[Flagg]

I think you need to put them in a situation where physical combat is impossible, or at least futile. It might provoke them to get crafty.

 

[LaFreeze]

I think you need to put them in a situation where physical combat is impossible, or at least futile. It might provoke them to get crafty.

I tried....a siren with an enslaved army riding a basilisk is encountered and one of the NPC gets snagged by the song and turned to stone to show the situation is serious and they don't want this fight since the only really had swords and armor. 15 minutes later I'm printing off new character sheets. They didn't even both to try and cover their ears or shield their eyes or run away when the higher level NPCs all got killed.


I am not even kidding about that. And yet this is the same party who once come up with an elaborate plan to kill a bad guy be reworking a computer have the automated assembly line mix up ammonia and beech the next time the guy clicked their self clean option instead of just trying to snipe the guy through a window.

 

[vinom]

Siren and a basilisk, but what is they navigated by smell?

 

[LaFreeze]

Than they would have know exactly how much their "just keep trying to stab things" plan stunk.

 

[vinom]

To many new players see Exalts powers and compare them to heroes of other systems, compared to a Deadlands gun slinger, a character creation solar is a godly power house that doesn't need clever plans or common sense, not realizing the folly of not finding out about the power curve in creation.

 

[Flagg]

Sounds like maybe you should stick to sci-fi.

 

[LaFreeze]

Probably but I'm pretty sick of the scifi we've been playing :mad: and want something a little different hence my gluttony for punishment here.

 

[vinom]

Maybe a different type of transition would be needed... how do they play in games in a modern setting?

 

[LaFreeze]

Better then Fantasy, not as good as Sci-Fi.


Also also specific while this is the possibly I just run a better scifi game than I do a fantasy game, this issue has not be restricted to when I am running the game which is why I suspect it is an issue with my player not myself.

 

[vinom]

May the question you should be asking isn't based on role play setting but genre... when your players read or watch fantasy, how many times are they exposed to the smart heroes, the planners, as opposed to Conan the Barbarian type muscle bound roid addicts cutting mountains in half with brute force?

 

[Zin]

You might consider running a DB or mortal game during the first age. The setting should be more familiar to them.

 

[Flagg]

May the question you should be asking isn't based on role play setting but genre... when your players read or watch fantasy, how many times are they exposed to the smart heroes, the planners, as opposed to Conan the Barbarian type muscle bound roid addicts cutting mountains in half with brute force?

A certain prominent trilogy comes to mind.

 

[LaFreeze]

May the question you should be asking isn't based on role play setting but genre... when your players read or watch fantasy, how many times are they exposed to the smart heroes, the planners, as opposed to Conan the Barbarian type muscle bound roid addicts cutting mountains in half with brute force?

I know they've read Lord of the Rings, various Dragonlance Sagas, A Song of Ice and Fire, some of the Forgotten Realms books, the King Killer Trilogy (The two parts that are out) and some members have played games like Planescape Torment, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy 1-10 and the like so it seems like they should have a pretty well rounded view of fantasy.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Do a search for the Dead Fantasy videos and say, this is Exalted level combat. Tell them that even the most buffed out Epic level cross-classed D&D character would get curb stomped by even a starting Exalt. Which is true.


Captain Hesperus

 

[LaFreeze]

I don't think that really addresses the issue here. They've already said they would consider playing exalted at some point...I just worry they'll get a bad experience if they don't really get into stunting or come up with plans, try and get crazy which charms now and than and all those little things which really go into a good exalted game.