Unimagination ruining games

[gatherer818]

hrm... it sounds to me like they LIKE to play Fantasy as curb-stompers. Have you considered running the game exactly like that - come up with awesome combats and let them slice and dice until they're tired of it, then widen the range of options? It drives me a little crazy that my tabletop group prefers hack-and-slash combat, but they do. That's why I look for social games on this forum (and end up making combat monsters anyway because I'm out of practice with anything that can't soak a small WMD being considered viable), and run rather bloody games at my table. There's only one social specialist in our current circle, and he's also half-way through mastering a non-lethal (but effective) TMA style because he knows the rest of the table will leave him out if he can't fight.

 

[LaFreeze]

Absolutely! Some DO like to play fantasy at curb-stompers, these are they same guys who play cyborg leg breakers in scifi, but that isn't the whole group. Normally the group has a leader who steps up to the non-combat aspects and helps the group form plans, think outside the box and keep on track, but that isn't happening in fantasy.

 

[gatherer818]

hehe... in only slightly related news, I think one of my STs is mad at me... no Charms (besides the scene-length soak booster I'd already had running), no DVs, I took a 30-die hit and took 0 levels of damage WITHOUT using the Twilight anima effect.... in a game focused on crafting and sorcery. I'm terrible at making stuff that doesn't either decimate legions or tank Warstrider hits.


More on-topic, if it's always the same person who handles all the non-combat stuff, he might be really bored doing all that alone. Every now and then it is nice to step down from the leadership role and stab something until it stops moving. If they're just going through a phase where they want to break stuff, probably best to let them break stuff and come back to social-fu and such later on. After they get bored of full-on combat, stealth missions start to look really appealing...


It might also be a bit of meta-game disconnect. They see enemies, so they think "The ST wouldn't have put these here unless we could beat them," so they assume that's a viable option. I very nearly lost a few PCs to something like that before, a recurring tough guy showed up and they thought "If we all charge together, we can take him down." They got in range of the cone, he dropped one Water Dragon Shout, and the lone survivor was trying to stabilize his dying teammates before they bled out while the bad guy walked off with the kids he'd come to kidnap (back, as they were kidnapped from him who'd kidnapped them first...). The next time they saw that guy, a few of them went to the roofs to keep him occupied with ranged while the others organized an evacuation of the lodge of the Cult of the Illuminated they were staying at.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

How about a game starting in Thorns? The players' characters are an established group of bounty hunters/treasure hunters/something else who were stopping off there before heading on to more profitable jobs.


Then BOOM! Mask of Winters time!


They all Exalt as they are put in danger of their lives and have to hack and slash their way through hordes of the risen dead, Nemissaries and other Necrotech baddies who want to eat their brains. They finally make it out and they look back to see the rest of the city fall in their wake.


Now you can start introducing other options, especially when they see the sheer size of Juggernaut...


Captain Hesperus

 

[LaFreeze]

It might also be a bit of meta-game disconnect. They see enemies, so they think "The ST wouldn't have put these here unless we could beat them," so they assume that's a viable option.

Oh they definitely know better than that.


I'd put more weight into the "sick of social fu" theory if this happened in other settings too. It is possible but unlikely given the change in the groups membership from time to time.

[QUOTE="Captain Hesperus]How about a game starting in Thorns? The players' characters are an established group of bounty hunters/treasure hunters/something else who were stopping off there before heading on to more profitable jobs.
Then BOOM! Mask of Winters time!


They all Exalt as they are put in danger of their lives and have to hack and slash their way through hordes of the risen dead, Nemissaries and other Necrotech baddies who want to eat their brains. They finally make it out and they look back to see the rest of the city fall in their wake.


Now you can start introducing other options, especially when they see the sheer size of Juggernaut...


Captain Hesperus

[/QUOTE]
Well I think the tomb of 5 corners is the place I want to start so I don't have to get into the character creation rules until they actually have an idea of how things work, but that isn't a bad idea for post To5C adventures. Particularly as the appearance of the Deathlord at the end could dove tail into a Thorns adventure nicely.

 

[cyl]

Try to hit them where it hurts: their passions.


If they like anime: make them watch (and endure the first seven episodes) of 12 Kingdoms (by far my greatest source of inspiration for Exalted)


If they like mangas: make them read Shin Angyo Onshi


If they like reading / tv series : Games of Thrones


And just tell them: it's going to be like that... and more, since they're destined to become the top of the food chain !


I'm sure they'll follow you through Malefas and back


Start slow, exploration, defense, conspiracies, and then progressively lure them into intrigues and realm building... they won't know what hit them

 

[Greenstalker]

I certainly appreciate the advice, but I fear they won't even be willing to wrap their heads around charms (I have to memorize HOW MANY CHARMS? None, just get familiar with the ones you want to take. Oh no! If I don't memorize all of them you'll use them against me! No, don't worry that bad guys have their own charms. $*#@ you mean there are even MORE charms than the one in this book???? How am I supposed to memorize all those too! You aren't just play the game!) and if you drop those you are not really playing exalted.

This comment reminded me an old type of RPG player that likes to metagame. Basicly they feel insecure against things they don't know as a player and can't get into character because of that (I know I was one and still one to a degree) Why they are comfortable with sci-fi? Because it is mostly improvised and most of sci-fi depends on not explored territory (laser weapons, FTL drives you name it), if there is no set rules or rules are open to improvising than they are open to try many things. On the other hand DnD has spells, feats, skills etc which have a different section for each and a set of rules for them. I think your group fears (with a relatively good reason) of "silver bullets" of spells but since they can't comprehend which ones are those they don't wanna waste their effort on a spell-casting class.


You need to show them that Exalted is a setting that is focused on improvising. It will be hard however with all rules. My suggestion like someone elses. Give them pre-made characters depending on their personalities based on their sci-fi play not DnD play. For example who is improvising explosives? give him a twilight crafter, whoever is telling clever lies give him zenith or eclipse.


To overcome their memorisizng fear (it would be easier if you were playing 4th edition) print all of their charms and attach them to their character sheet describing how many die they need to roll with them etc. At first you may need to work a few extra to get them used to playstyle of Exalted and they may still not like it but it worths time rather than simply trying them to play it.


After ToC or before it you may goto another published story like Daughter of Nexus.

 

[LaFreeze]

Hmmm I've never had any reason to think they are power gamers persay, but that theory does seem to fit very well with the facts so it is highly plausible. (Perhaps they are just not very good at optimizing, but power gamers at heart.) I think I'll try breaking it down a bit like that.