Dice Trial By Fire - OOC

[D. Rex]

Sherwood

Do you have any judgement on the perfected kata bracers being probably overpowered?

 

[Sherwood]

Ok, here are my thoughts on this.

You guys are all only at Essence 2, and it will take another 70 some xp to get to E3. With the PKB, they only add [Essence] to your to hit, parry DV and Withering damage. That's not a whole lot, and once you guys hit Essence 3, imagine just how evil Kuaidao or Spider will be in combat. D. Rex has not been building Bard up to be a front line fighter, and is more the social interaction man of the group.

I had originally seen the PKBs as a way to help keep Bard alive in the upcoming fights with the undead forces I have planned for you, but did not expect to hear that they were overpowered. In this case, I see two options to go with. One, I drop them. Two, I increase the Commitment cost of the bracers back up to the full amount (or more) that they are listed in the 2e rules.

 

[jaydude]

Sherwood
In related stuff, do you have any objection to my planned upgrades?

 

[Sherwood]

Sherwood
In related stuff, do you have any objection to my planned upgrades?

No issues with that.

 

[D. Rex]

Ok, here are my thoughts on this.

You guys are all only at Essence 2, and it will take another 70 some xp to get to E3. With the PKB, they only add [Essence] to your to hit, parry DV and Withering damage. That's not a whole lot, and once you guys hit Essence 3, imagine just how evil Kuaidao or Spider will be in combat. D. Rex has not been building Bard up to be a front line fighter, and is more the social interaction man of the group.

I had originally seen the PKBs as a way to help keep Bard alive in the upcoming fights with the undead forces I have planned for you, but did not expect to hear that they were overpowered. In this case, I see two options to go with. One, I drop them. Two, I increase the Commitment cost of the bracers back up to the full amount (or more) that they are listed in the 2e rules.

That makes me horrified. "Yo. Bard is going to die, he needs a buff." Horrified but excited. Do your worst. Pound me.






Now! I must say I am biased against dropping them, but that is only because I had my hopes set on a goody.

However I am happy to change them out with whatever DM pleases.

But I did also have a few ideas a few posts back on potential downgrading of them, if you'd rather do that instead. Maybe combining those with having Bard to start speccing more into MA will help keep him alive. As their are other styles that will suit his theme, such as Dancing Courtesan, Crane, and Laughing Devil style.




Otherwise, I don't mind being weak. I can provide utilitarian benefits while everyone else brutes their way ahead. And can play on the weakness to give Spider more to do in protecting Bard.

 

[Rykon]

Ok, here are my thoughts on this.

You guys are all only at Essence 2, and it will take another 70 some xp to get to E3. With the PKB, they only add [Essence] to your to hit, parry DV and Withering damage. That's not a whole lot, and once you guys hit Essence 3, imagine just how evil Kuaidao or Spider will be in combat. D. Rex has not been building Bard up to be a front line fighter, and is more the social interaction man of the group.

Not for nothin but while it doesn't sound like a lot, in Third Edition a non-charm +2 to hit, damage, and defense amounts to a very significant advantage that is not replicated by any Solar charm or printed evocation in the edition. 2E Artifacts are almost impossible to import because of just how fundamentally different the numbers game is. Anything that impacts attack or defense, especially defense, for a scene is exceedingly rare with both a high cost and low overall numerical impact.

Ahlat, an E7 god of war tops out at a Defense of 6 (6 Parry, 5 Evasion before charms) and his scene long charm to reduce attack successes caps out at 2 as an E4 charm (which can also be entirely negated for spending 2w).

The Second Circle Demon Octavian's Defense is 7 Parry, 3 Evasion at E6 with no scene long defense either.

99% of Solars and Solar tier opposition have a cap of 12 defense (7 base assuming 5 dex, 5 ability, specialty, with a defensive weapon, and add 5 from the absolute limit of charm bonuses) before stunts and willpower. To add to Random Word 's point about whether or not it's considered "non-charm" is an even bigger deal.

To try and put this in perspective... those kinds of boosts approach a Lunar's Warform which has significant drawbacks. I'll also add that the Warform only adds to Soak and Withering Damage at the cost of -1 Defense across the board for the duration of the form and reducing all magic material resonance, all for the humble price of 2 charms (16-20XP) to learn and 5m 1w to activate.

I don't mean to quibble or ruin anyone's fun, just to remind everyone that combat stats as designed by the writers do not generally escalate like they did in 2E. Hopefully, I can take time to provide solutions/alternatives soon, but this weekend's pretty stacked for me.

 

[D. Rex]

Doesn't ruin my fun! I'm just happy with anything.

Cool beans. Certainly will make martial arting more fun.







So what would be an appropriate translation do you think for the PKB? Using some things as an example, Seven Leaping Dragons had a change of function and our favorite Bamboo was cut in half. (Not that they weren't justified in 3e)



Seeing as that the PKB theme seems to be draw out a martial artists latent potential, what then might some alternative effects be.


Perhaps the alignment lets one use their skills at greater efficiency, reducing MA costs by a certain amount. By essence? That might be too much at later levels.

Perhaps by honing already trained essence of the martial artist it still adds dice. More limited, maybe. Like, if with Defense(or attack and damage) its 1/2 [Stat] rounded up(or down). Perhaps it only adds one or two successes instead of all that many die. Perhaps accuracy only applies to withering and damage to decisive, or vice versa.


Maybe it allows the removal of some restriction with Martial arts or charms.

Maybe it allows improvised mundane weaponry, in the hands of a master martial artist, to strike with the stats of an artifact variant.

Maybe it lets one always be able to active a Form charm reflexively and get the special activation bonus at any time rather than only the form specific trigger.




Just a few idea. Could mix and match or only one. Just figured I'd do some brainstorming in case Sherwood wants to change it. Random Word being more experienced in this, any thoughts?

Firstly. Paying the difference between form charms is standard. With the cost acting as a commitment. Going from 10mt form to an 8mt one. You get those 2mt returned. Or vice versa you would only pay 2mt.

As that comes standard, The only real upgrade on that I could see would be just a reduction in cost.




Being able to qualify for weapon benefits would certainly be an interesting one. It would be very reasonable too, as the masterful realignment of ones essence turns you into the weapon itself through suitable stunt.

While you would obviously not get evocations from that weapon, as its not a weapon being used, the versatility of being able to MA charms more freely together is a worthwhile one.


As it stands, Nightingales kiai already acts as a light artifact thrown weapon. Mechanically speaking it would just be the same in effect, just applied to different styles.



If coupled with the form charm boon as discussed. It would really highlight the theme of flow the PKB has. Not making you more powerful, but instead letting you move through your skills with unparalleled ease.




Another idea, would be taking a note from Whispers of Perfection and your idea of Evocations. Maybe more powers can only be unlocked when more MA styles are mastered(form charms learned). Making the PKBs true potential known only to the most learned martial art masters, who can flow from style to style with the protean grace of moonsilver itself.

Those were a couple of my ideas. Figured I might as well start speculating on alternatives.

Basically what I came to boiled down to:

Let's the user bypass the restriction of weapons in regards to MA charms. The bracers essentially letting you be an all encompassing MA weapon.

And lets the user be able to reflexively activate the form charm and gets its bonus at will rather than only when the special trigger occurs.



And afterwards, perhaps other abilities of it could be unlocked via Evocations. Taking example from Whispers of Perfection, the evocations can only be unlocked after mastering new styles of martial arts so it would be an even large investment to buff it further.



Altogether it doesn't really give a massive boost, with the only one being applicable to him is the reflexive form charm benefit. It isn't really something I can take advantage of unless I start learning more styles.







However! If boss Sherwood does feel I need a bit of a boost to keep up, I am happy to hear some suggestions on how I can not die on yell. I could make a plea to respec if need be. Switch MA style, and cut back on the performance charms. Going from screeching bard to a charismatic martial artist. Still maintaining the social role, but just tuning him more towards staying alive. Would also stop the annoying singing and songs.

 

[Sherwood]

I will ponder my options.

 

[D. Rex]

Aye aye boss, I'll work without you however I can.

 

[Sherwood]

Alright. With all of the feedback I've gotten about this, I believe that while I tried to do good, I made a mistake with the PKBs, and I can own that. D. Rex I apologize for getting your hopes up with them. I will look for a replacement item that may appeal to Bard instead.

 

[Psychie]

Don't worry, D. Rex . Spider will help keep you alive. Just stick behind me, and I will be your meat shield.

 

[D. Rex]

Alright. With all of the feedback I've gotten about this, I believe that while I tried to do good, I made a mistake with the PKBs, and I can own that. D. Rex I apologize for getting your hopes up with them. I will look for a replacement item that may appeal to Bard instead.

Its no worries boss. I'll make due with whatever you decide to give me!


On the topic of what I mentioned earlier. Would it help you if I respeced a little? So you didn't worry about him being so squishy.

I didn't think he was doing too badly though. He's got some good defense. He just doesn't hit very hard or have those real bangers of offensive charms like the rest.

Don't worry, D. Rex . Spider will help keep you alive. Just stick behind me, and I will be your meat shield.

My life is forever in your hands!

 

[Random Word]

Bard has like 9/22 combat Charms (arguably 10/22), access to artifact weapon attacks, and 5+5+Specialty in his combat pool. He is no slouch. Maja is likely the weakest combatant of the group at only 5/19 combat Charms, no artifact weapon, and only a 5+3+Sometimes Specialty in her combat pool. Bard has a pretty significant investment in combat ability, and he's in no danger. Maja is going to hide behind Kuaidao if things get rough.

 

[Sherwood]

Don't worry guys. I'll do my best to keep the future challenges balanced and fair to all.

 

[Psychie]

My life is forever in your hands!

As it should be! lol

 

[D. Rex]

Bard has like 9/22 combat Charms (arguably 10/22), access to artifact weapon attacks, and 5+5+Specialty in his combat pool. He is no slouch. Maja is likely the weakest combatant of the group at only 5/19 combat Charms, no artifact weapon, and only a 5+3+Sometimes Specialty in her combat pool. Bard has a pretty significant investment in combat ability, and he's in no danger.

Oh I'm not saying he isn't capable. Just saying that he is mostly operating at peak, most of his combat charms are either defensive or social based. Nothing to really push that damage.

But I sort of planned it that way, as he would is mainly filling a support role. Can give you all some init, among other things. Plus other buffs later.

I do feel I'm not capitalizing on the social abilities as much as I should though. Especially in battle when I could be turning, intimidate, or taunting as an essentially free flurry.

Don't worry guys. I'll do my best to keep the future challenges balanced and fair to all.

As admirable as ever!




Also don't feel compelled to replace the PKB on my behalf.

 

[Random Word]

The first is the Deliverer of Dark Dreams and Nightmares, a woman that is a cruel as she is beautiful. According to these notes, she has under her control a total of six of these Deathknights, but there is little information on them.

I'm looking forward to being murdered by Whispers from the Darkness. Assuming Bard doesn't succeed in his go-to plan of seducing the Dusk.

 

[Sherwood]

lol

 

[D. Rex]

I'm looking forward to being murdered by Whispers from the Darkness. Assuming Bard doesn't succeed in his go-to plan of seducing the Dusk.

It is in the code that I must make every attempt to try.

 

[Sherwood]

It is in the code that I must make every attempt to try.

You'd better be careful; you'll make Spider jealous.

 

[Psychie]

That could be very dangerous.

 

[D. Rex]

You'd better be careful; you'll make Spider jealous.

Well in Bard's defense, Spider hasn't exactly claimed Bard as anything other than her defendee.

 

[Sherwood]

She's just playing hard to get.

 

[D. Rex]

But that would be a good strategy. Seduce Whispers, make Spider jealous, Spider singlehandedly kills the Deathlord in a scorned rampage.

She's just playing hard to get.

Stoic and aloof! A heart shrouded by confusion and duty. A heart torn between pushing away and pulling toward.

But for Bard, Spider holds a place in his heart that not even he understands. Love at first sight, it is not. But what then is it? An attraction so strong it has lasted the ages. What is this bond between these two who seem so different and how did it come to be?

 

[Sherwood]

I have always loved how well you write.