The Evil Lair (OOC)

Everyone's weakness seems to be a personality trait that would probably be rendered moot in a combat scenario


Meanwhile, I'm here running full force into buildings
 
Sizniche said:
Everyone's weakness seems to be a personality trait that would probably be rendered moot in a combat scenario


Meanwhile, I'm here running full force into buildings
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Makes sense. They have to have SOME level of competency to even be able to run around doing crime, otherwise they'd all be in jail. They're the bottom of the barrel in terms of criminals, not people in general after all.
 
Colt556 said:
Makes sense. They have to have SOME level of competency to even be able to run around doing crime, otherwise they'd all be in jail. They're the bottom of the barrel in terms of criminals, not people in general after all.
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Well, I mean, to be fair, the worst criminals DO end up in jail. Hell, GOOD criminals end up in jail. But anyways, if the only problems we suffer from are personality issues, then what actually sets us apart from the villains that do their job WELL?
 
Sizniche said:
Well, I mean, to be fair, the worst criminals DO end up in jail. Hell, GOOD criminals end up in jail. But anyways, if the only problems we suffer from are personality issues, then what actually sets us apart from the villains that do their job WELL?
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What sets us apart from the villains that do their job well is the fact that we don't do our jobs well. Powers don't make the criminal, their personality does. The Joker doesn't have any special powers. He can't run super fast or stop time or be super strong, and yet he's one of the best criminals out there. Indeed a lot of high-profile criminals are just normal human beings. Their success comes from their personality. So if their success comes from their personality, not their powers, it makes sense that the same would happen in reverse right? We fail not because of our powers, but because of our personalities.
 
Colt556 said:
What sets us apart from the villains that do their job well is the fact that we don't do our jobs well. Powers don't make the criminal, their personality does. The Joker doesn't have any special powers. He can't run super fast or stop time or be super strong, and yet he's one of the best criminals out there. Indeed a lot of high-profile criminals are just normal human beings. Their success comes from their personality. So if their success comes from their personality, not their powers, it makes sense that the same would happen in reverse right? We fail not because of our powers, but because of our personalities.
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That's a pretty fair point tbh :T
 
Colt556 said:
What sets us apart from the villains that do their job well is the fact that we don't do our jobs well. Powers don't make the criminal, their personality does. The Joker doesn't have any special powers. He can't run super fast or stop time or be super strong, and yet he's one of the best criminals out there. Indeed a lot of high-profile criminals are just normal human beings. Their success comes from their personality. So if their success comes from their personality, not their powers, it makes sense that the same would happen in reverse right? We fail not because of our powers, but because of our personalities.
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Except that's not always the case. It's not like a bad personality actually BREAKS a power, and there are more than a few successful villains with personality flaws. In fact, personality flaws generally MAKE a villain. You wouldn't hate a villain if they weren't arrogant, self-confident, etc, and that villain would have no chance of falling if they had a winning personality all the time. A villain will have character flaws, powers or not. It is not something that would make them bad as a villain. If personality issues actually had an effect on performance, the Joker would get nowhere on account of his lust for chaos, and Lex Luthor would essentially be a broke and penniless sod for being a megalomaniac. But they aren't, because their personalities aren't what make or break them. The powerless villains succeed because they are tacticians; masters of plotting and deception. But the thing is this; powers negate the negative effects of personalities anyway. You need only look as far as Superman to see that. You think the comics would change if Superman was arrogant? No, he'd wipe the floor with his enemies because he's Superman, a character literally written to be ludicrously powerful.


Besides, don't ya'll think it would be boring if all our problems were personality issues?
 
woo philosophical moment~


Making sure, does Samael have enough weaknesses/reasons why he sucks? I don't want him to be some burly, unstoppable snake-dude.


Also, I need a bit of inspiration! 


Originally, I was going to have Samael's nemesis be this lion-esque figure due to Sam locking him up in a lion's den for revenge, but that idea's a bit redundant now because of other cat-like peeps. The two's relationship was basically based off of these two captains from these teams, both with either a cat or snake for a mascot, so I already have a faceclaim. I'm trying to come up with some other animal-based hero or possibly just a character with an ability that could've been granted to him (from one of fetus!Sam's pranks). Nothing's coming to mind, though.
 
Hahah aww my weakspot. Aw man Im tempted to bring Madhu to this and try and whip some of the villians into Bad Guys. Like a bad guy sensei and is actually a *censored for HC spoilers* at the side. 


Ill wait what the other characters are.
 
TripTripleTimes said:
Hahah aww my weakspot. Aw man Im tempted to bring Madhu to this and try and whip some of the villians into Bad Guys. Like a bad guy sensei and is actually a *censored for HC spoilers* at the side. 


Ill wait what the other characters are.
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So like a third mentor character? I allow tres already experienced villains and 4 who had worked as interns before hand 
 
Sizniche said:
Except that's not always the case. It's not like a bad personality actually BREAKS a power, and there are more than a few successful villains with personality flaws. In fact, personality flaws generally MAKE a villain. You wouldn't hate a villain if they weren't arrogant, self-confident, etc, and that villain would have no chance of falling if they had a winning personality all the time. A villain will have character flaws, powers or not. It is not something that would make them bad as a villain. If personality issues actually had an effect on performance, the Joker would get nowhere on account of his lust for chaos, and Lex Luthor would essentially be a broke and penniless sod for being a megalomaniac. But they aren't, because their personalities aren't what make or break them. The powerless villains succeed because they are tacticians; masters of plotting and deception. But the thing is this; powers negate the negative effects of personalities anyway. You need only look as far as Superman to see that. You think the comics would change if Superman was arrogant? No, he'd wipe the floor with his enemies because he's Superman, a character literally written to be ludicrously powerful.


Besides, don't ya'll think it would be boring if all our problems were personality issues?
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That's the thing though, it's all about personality. Good and bad, it all revolves around personality. Luther is successful because of his personality. He's cunning, intelligent, calculating, manipulative. But then he also fails because of his personality. He's arrogant, self-absorbed, and a megalomaniac as you said. They succeed because of their personality and they fail because of their personality, and this holds true for every villain. Villains without powers succeed because of their personality. Villains with powers fail because of their personality. It always comes back to their personality. You mention superman, well if superman's personality was shitty and he was short-sighted, way too confidant, and generally apathetic then he'd be fairly easily beaten by someone using kryptonite on the guy. For all his powers he'd be defeated because he was too arrogant and too stupid to properly guard against a cunning use of his one weakness. It wasn't his power that mattered, it was his personality.


Despite discussing this with you I actually agree with you in part. If EVERYONE is flawed solely because of their personalities it would be a bit boring. But then the same applies if everyone is flawed because of their powers. Personally, on a personal level, I hate the gimmick of "my power's are broken and that's why I suck". I genuinely hate that shtick and even on gag characters it's very rare that I find it amusing. That's why you will never see me do it that way. I'm a fan of characters who, regardless of their power, just have warped personalities that are doomed to failure. I find that far more amusing than some guy with broken powers. Depending on whether you watch current season shows, Gabriel Drop-out is an example of what I enjoy, there is nothing flawed with their abilities, they're just general fuck-ups with warped personalities. Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum you have Charlotte where their powers were broken, but I enjoy Gabriel Drop-out far more than Charlotte.


For me, at least, I feel it better represents the loser nature when it's because of personality. As Lex Luthor or the Joker show, even powerless people can be great villains. So having a broken ability doesn't mean much, you could simply not rely on your abilities and rely on other skills. Even with a flawed ability you still need an equally flawed personality otherwise you'd just be successful in the same way the Joker or Luthor are. So if you're someone with a nice ability, no flaws, is pretty good. And yet you're STILL a loser because you're a general cockup and failure as a human being, that is better in my eyes.


But ultimately it comes down to player preference. And that's where I go back to saying I agree with you. Having some people who are failures because of their power and some who are failures because of their personality means more variations which allows for more opportunities to play off one another.
 
...why are people having philosophical discussion about character personalities vs power flaws? 


it works both ways, though i think someone said that before me, i just really wanted to put my token in the hat...


*is procrastinating life currently*
 
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Colt556 said:
That's the thing though, it's all about personality. Good and bad, it all revolves around personality. Luther is successful because of his personality. He's cunning, intelligent, calculating, manipulative. But then he also fails because of his personality. He's arrogant, self-absorbed, and a megalomaniac as you said. They succeed because of their personality and they fail because of their personality, and this holds true for every villain. Villains without powers succeed because of their personality. Villains with powers fail because of their personality. It always comes back to their personality. You mention superman, well if superman's personality was shitty and he was short-sighted, way too confidant, and generally apathetic then he'd be fairly easily beaten by someone using kryptonite on the guy. For all his powers he'd be defeated because he was too arrogant and too stupid to properly guard against a cunning use of his one weakness. It wasn't his power that mattered, it was his personality.


Despite discussing this with you I actually agree with you in part. If EVERYONE is flawed solely because of their personalities it would be a bit boring. But then the same applies if everyone is flawed because of their powers. Personally, on a personal level, I hate the gimmick of "my power's are broken and that's why I suck". I genuinely hate that shtick and even on gag characters it's very rare that I find it amusing. That's why you will never see me do it that way. I'm a fan of characters who, regardless of their power, just have warped personalities that are doomed to failure. I find that far more amusing than some guy with broken powers. Depending on whether you watch current season shows, Gabriel Drop-out is an example of what I enjoy, there is nothing flawed with their abilities, they're just general fuck-ups with warped personalities. Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum you have Charlotte where their powers were broken, but I enjoy Gabriel Drop-out far more than Charlotte.


For me, at least, I feel it better represents the loser nature when it's because of personality. As Lex Luthor or the Joker show, even powerless people can be great villains. So having a broken ability doesn't mean much, you could simply not rely on your abilities and rely on other skills. Even with a flawed ability you still need an equally flawed personality otherwise you'd just be successful in the same way the Joker or Luthor are. So if you're someone with a nice ability, no flaws, is pretty good. And yet you're STILL a loser because you're a general cockup and failure as a human being, that is better in my eyes.


But ultimately it comes down to player preference. And that's where I go back to saying I agree with you. Having some people who are failures because of their power and some who are failures because of their personality means more variations which allows for more opportunities to play off one another.
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You do have a point, and I in fact love to play powerless characters because of it. I just can't help but feel that people are going the route of personality flaws to circumvent actually needing to be bad at their job. I'll probably have less issue with it when it is applied during the roleplay.
 
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