The 3rd Camp

[Persell]

That's why I think it has so much potential to be a campaign. The characters have more than one problem to deal with, so things will take long time. I also think it has the potential to make the "Invisible Manse" look like a fucking cake walk.

 

[MOK]

The setting of a camp takes a really far back seat to the main objective...

The setting of the camps are tied very much with the method utilized to complete the objective and the ideology of the headmaster.

This is the point I was trying to illustrate - The means of teaching & lesson were not chosen around the environment where it existed.  The environment was chosen to suit the lesson being taught.  The teachings being imparted to the Solars - the objective - dictates the location and setting.  The setting takes a backseat to the main objective.


Of what the site has to offer, you summed up some potential in stuff like jungle warriors, survivalism, fair folk diplomacy, Dino social-fu.


These don't look especially connected or aimed to me.  What is the Solar's overlying lesson?  What exactly is the means to teach the Solars this lesson?  Are you looking at another Kether rock?


The way it seems to work, from how I read it, is that it all stems from the Sid's analyzing the Solars to try to find some overlying pattern or nature that encompasses the essence of "where they went wrong," and creating a social construct whose purpose is to work directly against that malign nature that theyve come up with.  


So if you want a third camp, you'll probably have to stat with a hypothesis like "If you keep presenting them with never ending challenges to overcome, they will not fall into corruption,"


or "If you reenforce the Solar's spiritual superiority, they will accept the responsibilities implied and lead fairly"


Everything else just follows from that hypothesis.


On the side, one thing you could take into account is the plans for the 4th camp.  Theres nothing stopping you from making that one exist.  This is the camp that Kai and Zhen Xue were to undertake.  If you can figure out what they'd think, you've pretty much got it all made.  I think their camp could be pretty interesting, given their personalities.

 

[The Scorp]

If thats the case then why even have a 3rd or 4th camp?  While the camps have an underlying philosophy behind them, it doesnt dictate why the camp is there.  The camps are there to cultivate the Solars back into the rightful rulers that they are.  Position of where it is, or the Siddies philosophy of how to keep the Solars from wigging out has nothing to do with the camps in all honesty.  Even if the Siddies agreed on one philosophy, it wouldnt stop them from making up more camps.  There is a third somewhere left up to the STs and a fourth in the works.


One of the possibilities of a third camp was set in the West anyway, and all the scenerios of why Rathas would be bad would affect that scenerio as well, save for the garrison of DBed.  But like Cheetah said, this is what the Solar is made for.  Hell, Maduka Shin realizes this and rightfully fears their power.  And Im sure, it can be done with a level of secrecy.  Plus, with Eclipses in tow, Im sure alot of negotiations and possibly commerce, would grow from this.  Hell, possibly even setting up a new way to bank and finance their own coin with the amount of trade that could go on as Rathas wouldn't be to far from Civilization and the Wyld where probably many many many lost artifacts are in the hands of Lunars or could probably be bargained for from the local Fair Folk Prince.


Plus, its just would be a good storyline to overcome these obstacles and see something great rise from the old semi working first age city with Dragon Kings under the Solar Banner once again.  DK's and Tiger Warriors... good mix.

 

[Persell]

You could actually put into use those charms for DK accelerated learning. Which is something I'm sure no one has done yet.

 

[Andrew02]

This is the point I was trying to illustrate - The means of teaching & lesson were not chosen around the environment where it existed.  The environment was chosen to suit the lesson being taught.  The teachings being imparted to the Solars - the objective - dictates the location and setting.  The setting takes a backseat to the main objective.

I don't quite see how the environment can be as unimportant as I believe you are making it out to be. The two seem equally important unless the instructors are going to use Sorcery to create artifically environments suited to their lessons.

Of what the site has to offer, you summed up some potential in stuff like jungle warriors, survivalism, fair folk diplomacy, Dino social-fu.
These don't look especially connected or aimed to me.  What is the Solar's overlying lesson?  What exactly is the means to teach the Solars this lesson?  Are you looking at another Kether rock?

They're learning to be the leaders the Gold Faction want them to be. That's the overlying lesson everywhere for Solars, isn't it?


Given the diversity of the mortal population of Creation alone, learning to deal with something as strange as Fae and Dragon Kings seems like a good way to get them prepared for dealing with other strange folk. Or, I suppose, when the Solar World Order comes through areas where Fae Folk courts hold some sway (such as near Halta), the Solars have already learned to deal diplomatically with Fair Folk. I vaguely recall it being suggested that there are more secret Dragon King settlements around Creation, but, at the least, some of the lessons learned would teach Solars something about dealing with "savages."


Survivalism is just plain useful. Creation is full of harsh environments. The sheer success of guerilla warfare in jungle terrain in our world seems to make the case for itself how effective jungle guerilla warfare could be in Exalted.

The way it seems to work, from how I read it, is that it all stems from the Sid's analyzing the Solars to try to find some overlying pattern or nature that encompasses the essence of "where they went wrong," and creating a social construct whose purpose is to work directly against that malign nature that theyve come up with.  
So if you want a third camp, you'll probably have to stat with a hypothesis like "If you keep presenting them with never ending challenges to overcome, they will not fall into corruption,"


or "If you reenforce the Solar's spiritual superiority, they will accept the responsibilities implied and lead fairly"


Everything else just follows from that hypothesis.

That's a good readingm by measure.


I admit I did not have this concern in mind when I posited what might be useful of the location. Perhaps the hypothesis for this camp could be, "the Solars became too complacent and set in their ways. If you expose them to those whose ways are in constant flux, the Solars will learn to continuously adapt to the responsibilities bestowed upon them." The thing to prevent in Solars is stasis, rather than an absence of challenges or affirmation.


Or the lesson could come from the Dragon Kings. Their cyclical way of life and instruction of newly born Dragon Kings could be influential to the Solars, given as they retain the same Shards, but (I think) fewer memories. Their identity was based upon the life and station of their previous incarnation.

Position of where it is' date=' or the Siddies philosophy of how to keep the Solars from wigging out has nothing to do with the camps in all honesty.[/quote']
I disagree in the strongest sense possible, and believe that such an assertion belies an astoundingly incomplete digestion of the Cult of the Illuminated.

 

[MOK]

I didnt intend on de-valuing the position of the camp.  What I meant was that it follows the point before it, the lesson.  In the same way as deciding which roads you drive is irrelevant if you havent decided your destination yet.  Yes, not the BEST analogy, but whatever.  True, the location is extremely important.  But trumping it is the idea of what exactly to teach, which the location is dependant.


Concerning the possible Rathess activities:  Yes, they are potentially valuable lessons, but what lessons?  Yes, of course leadership.. that was given.  Thats the point  for ALL the camps.  The question is what tone the teaching takes.   Kether Rock & the Tabernacle teach the same thing, leadership, but the differences we are described, that's what I was trying to get more description of.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the Sid's are creating each camp with a more specific purpose than "I dunno, just some useful shit".


Again this is just my reading of it alone, but I get the impression that pretty much everything that gets taught falls under the umbrella of one common - but specific - theme.

 

[Andrew02]

 I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the Sid's are creating each camp with a more specific purpose than "I dunno, just some useful shit".

If only more people did.


I guess the lessons got fucked in the quote trainwreck. I said this in response to what you called the 'hypothesis' of each camp presented:


"I admit I did not have this concern in mind when I posited what might be useful of the location. Perhaps the hypothesis for this camp could be, <b>"the Solars became too complacent and set in their ways. If you expose them to those whose ways are in constant flux, the Solars will learn to continuously adapt to the responsibilities bestowed upon them." </b>


Or the lesson could come from the Dragon Kings. Their cyclical way of life and instruction of newly born Dragon Kings could be influential to the Solars, given as they retain the same Shards, but (I think) fewer memories. Their identity was based upon the life and station of their previous incarnation. "


The bolded section could be the hypothesis for a camp near Rathess (which, I believe I will reiterate, don't really like the idea of because there's too much other shit around to deal with in that area).


Or maybe something like, "the Solars fell in the First Age because they insisted on making the world conform to them. In order to prevent another fall, the Solars must learn to conform to the world." It's probably treading close to the one suggested camp that suggests Solars emulate Lunars.

 

[MOK]

Ah.  Sorry.  I basically gleaned over the last half of your post, some of the quoting was buggered up, and I got confused(and lazy).  Yeah we're in agreement then.


Btw I like your second hypothesis, I think its a pretty good one.  With that, you could possibly make Rathess work(though yes, there are a few uh.. Complications with that site hehe.)

 

[greasy golem gunk]

Heh, it seems I don't use the board as frequently as I used to.  Silly Warcraft and it's seductive violence...


Anyway, a rathess camp sounds like a winner to me.  I would see it as a work in progress; a Duo of Siddies guiding their first batch of Solar students as they civilize the Dragon Kings, sorta like a strange illustration lesson on it's own.  


Even when they succeed, in part, they could hide the camp within, and use the dangers of the city to conceal their presence until they're too solid to dislodge.  The camp could focus on teaching Awareness and Survival on top of the Combat skill of choice; the two would be very useful in keeping the students fed and not fed upon.  As well as performance, since it's a performance charm tree that eventually allows the rapid teaching/evolving of Dragon Kings.


But then, I'm sure someone else has drawn this idea out this way before.  Scold me if you want, but the mass of quotes scared me away from the 2nd page.  


--------


Myself, I havn't introduced my party to a training camp; I neglected to provide guidelines beyond "have 4 dots between lore and occult so you can pretend to understand what the heck you're doing" (after all, they are going to close the underworld...), so I didn't think it was fair to shove them into a camp with x,y and z as Requisite skills needed to graduate.  I'm going to finish a short adventure, see where their skills are as a whole, and design a north-eastern camp, in the halta region.  If they poke around a lot, and need some Xp for reinforcement, I might run an abriveated version of that Hidden Fortress campaign in "Time of Timult".


Their camp will probably focus on Exalt/Spirit relations in the end; one where they learn to accept their role as the buffer between Spirits and mortals, and where they learn to teach spirits to accept it too.  It's just that I wanted to round out the camp in such a way that they won't be spending all their Xp catching up with the lesson plans.


-g3

 

[Persell]

I like the tea gardens of Yun shan...


does anyone have any idea for callings for it?


And I also have an idea for a location for the 4th camp.


In the heart of the realm


before you ask WHAT?!?


let me explain...


Theirs got to be one or two dragon blooded whos started to suspect that the realm is going to fall sooner or latter and want to purchase a chance of surviving the near certain fiasco


so (with one or two contingency magics put on them to ensure their good behaviour) the'yd loan out their country manse to the gold faction, with the promise of protection for themself, and possibly one or two loved ones.


(a isolated enough manse would be miles from anyone who could see an anima flare... pluss close enough, hopefully to allow them to occasionaly arrange to visit realm high society incognito... it would be EXCEEDINGLY Dangerous yes, but would give them some idea how a major empire works which will be useful for when they themselves actualy RULE creation.


Does that sound like a plausible idea?

 

[Leviathan]

My idea of a third camp


Cult base III: Golden Mist Academy


While the Sequestered Tabernacle goal is to replace the Immaculate Faith and it's monks with Solars preaching for the Illuminated philosophy, and bringing solars to spiritual perfection, and Kether Rock's goals is to create solars that can face any adversity with potency and success, purifying their souls in the fires of challenge, The Golden Mist Academy's master believes fully in the solars' abilities, and designed this camp to bolster whatever qualities it's students already had in them when coming into it.


Following the designs of first age academies, the Golden Mist academy is designed in the shape of a sunburst, the center building houses, from top to bottom, the Master's quarters and personal library, The students' quarters and public library, and the Initiates' quarters and mess hall in the bottom-most tier. Below the central dome, under the ground are the kitchens and facilities of the school, as well as some secret training chambers hewn from the living rock.


The academy lays in the middle of Mist Island, a level 4 demense, perpetually surrounded by Mist and treacherous currents to destroy and vessel that seeks entry to it. Only those who know the secret paths, or who can navigate magically, can pass that barrier.


From the building's second tier slim and slender wooden causeways lead to each of the "rays" of the sun-burst, so that students can reach their classes easily.


Each "Ray" is a two story building, the lower one dedicated to initiates and more base studies, and the higher level dedicated to the students and instructors expanding their knowledge. Initiates can get to the Academy by two routes – Either by recruitment by the Gold faction / Illuminated solars, or like some precious few who are held in high esteem – Making the trip to Mist Island unattended, and managing to break through the magical barrier.


The first year newcomers spend as initiates, learning the basics of Theology, History, Rhetoric arts, Crafts, Combat, Physical training, poetry and economics. These subjects are an obligation, as is the first year in it's entirety.


Physical classes take place around the camp, using the island's lush and grassy fields, while weapon classes and martial arts training might take place in training chambers buried under the camp. In the end of the first year, each student is tested individually for his purity of soul, commitment to Creation and to knowledge, those few who fail the test are obligated to pass through initiation all over again, for a whole year.


Students are not allowed to leave the camp until they finish two years, one as an initiate and one as a student. Those who try often find their quick demises, as the Gold faction cannot allow tainted solars to roam the Earth, tainted being a very vague term.


The second year is almost entirely in the hands of the solar, he chooses his own classes and instructors from the Academy's pool. The only rules are you have to take at least one physical class, at least one crafts class, at least one lore class, at least one combat class and you have to continue studying history. That still leaves over half the time empty for the solars usage. Most choose advanced martial arts classes or sorcerous teachings as the camp offers a very wide veriaty of styles and tomes on those matters.


Unlike the Tabernacle or the Rock, the Academy is more or less a life-long membership, students often take a few years to roam the world after their initial two years, but almost all return to expand their knowledge and meet more of their kind. In the first day of every month, at mid-day, the entire population gathers at the coliseum, hewn entirely from white marble, and participate in a cermon honoring the Sun, the moon and the maidens for their protection and favor.


In this ceremony those who are leaving announce their decision and say farewells and newcomers introduce themselves to the entire camp. In this way, every solar knows every solar on the island.


The "Rays" of the sunburst and their respective subjects, starting from the northern one and going clockwise – History and first age lore, Economics and Trade, Crafts, Politics and social structures, Philosophy rhetorics and debate, Literature and poetry, Strategy and tactics, Medicine.


The outdoors are used for physical exercises, combat training, simulated combats to train students in the fine arts of strategy and tactics, large-scale crafts and sorcerous exercises. There are two levels below the main dome, one for facilities such as kitchens and waste dumps, and the lower level is only accessed by second year students who have special talent or interest in either the martial arts or the study of sorcery.


While basic classes are given outside, advanced theory classes on magic are given down there, while advanced celestial martial arts are taught in large secreted training rooms, warded against spirits and sealed hermetically, keeping the secrets taught here secret.


The master of the school is Stone in the Sun, a gold factionite born a couple of centuries after the Contagion, he was recruited upon his exaltation and was educated on Ura's knees, so effective were her teachings that he actually came to believe the manipulation of his peers, and now views the solars as the only possible rulers of Creation.


His confidence in the solars' decisions led to the unique philosophy of the school, he is a servant and an advisor, nothing more. It is rumored, though never confirmed, that in the dungeons below the Academy Stone teaches the most pure students the secrets of the high level martial arts, and fragments of solar circle sorcery.

 

[Dereis]

I actually developed my own as well and put it in the Southeastern Jungles, but not near Rathess (though I will probably include it later.)  


I named it the Conclave of Illuminated Purity, and the focus is developing Solars into Philosopher-Kings.  The teachings are Aristotelian, and focus is on building the personality of the Solars by teaching the methods of right thinking.  Exalts are taught to be and hopefully remain in tune with their human origins, and are given lessons of humility and empathy as well as on the responsibility of power.  One idea I had was to make each character serve as the slave of a mortal family for one month, as determined by lotto.


Of course, there's all kind of jungle training possibilities a la Degobah, and a jungle setting is just as interesting and threatening as a tundra or desert.


It is headed by Master Gojin, who defected from the Bronze Faction after the return of the Solars.  In my game, Master Gojin is an elder Sidereal, and though he has only recently joined the Gold Faction (in the past 4-6 years), he has spent much time in consultation with Ayesha and is fully trusted by her, hence her allowance that he run the Eastern Camp.  Master Gojin is always hooded or masked, and is rumored to test or interact with many students while disguised.


I developed a small Jungle nation based on an extremely loose adaptation of the Haltans to a jungle setting (they live on the ground), in which the Conclave is hidden.


I have more lots of material developing this setting if anyone is interested, but the heart of the idea is presented here.

 

[Hanat-Osul]

I named it the Conclave of Illuminated Purity, and the focus is developing Solars into Philosopher-Kings.  The teachings are Aristotelian, and focus is on building the personality of the Solars by teaching the methods of right thinking.  Exalts are taught to be and hopefully remain in tune with their human origins, and are given lessons of humility and empathy as well as on the responsibility of power.  One idea I had was to make each character serve as the slave of a mortal family for one month, as determined by lotto.

THERE's a twist...


Interesting idea.


I like the Underground Sanctuary idea, personally...

 

[Forn Clakes]

I like the Underground Sanctuary idea' date=' personally...[/quote']
Is that the one led by a guy named Joseph One-Shoe, a mix between soup-kitchen and crime organisation?


I haven't got my copy on me at the moment, so I can't confirm its name.


~FC.

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Is that the one led by a guy named Joseph One-Shoe' date=' a mix between soup-kitchen and crime organisation?[/quote']
Yup.  I like the idea of Solars being both a) forced to hide their greatness and b) give a shit about normal humans.

 

[Forn Clakes]

Is that the one led by a guy named Joseph One-Shoe' date=' a mix between soup-kitchen and crime organisation?[/quote']
Yup.  I like the idea of Solars being both a) forced to hide their greatness and b) give a shit about normal humans.

Yeah, likewise.  I tried coming up with three Callings, but could only really come up with an enforcer type (the street-warriors) and a crime-lord type (the princes).


That was about it really.  Of course, Brawl and Larceny were the stalwart Abilities, but I couldn't get any further.  I was considering either some type of helpers or thieving calling, but got caught up in other ideas.


~FC.

 

[Persell]

Lol.


I dislike it when people call Greatness "Pretentious"


Heres my idea for callings fo the tea gardens of Yun-shan.


all 3 of them, will obviously, have occult as a calling ability.


and im thinking about lore 2.


Im thinking about 1 calling that would be a combo of archaeologist and detective, who goes around looking thruogh first age ruins.


Another that is the cream of the camp, that practices sorcerry...


I think the 3rd would be a warrior, comboing either melee, or martial arts (not sure yet... but leaning towards the latter) with the power of sorcerry.


does it sound good?