Surprise/Ambush

Lord Ben

Lord Ben

Elder Member
If you flurry or use an extra action attack charm against a surprise opponent is all the attacks with surprise or just the first one?


One of the PC's last session ambushed and killed another PC from surprise and put 4 arrows into him.  Wondering if that was legit, nothing in a quick scan of the surprise rules says either way.
 
Since all the actions in a flurry are supposed to take place in the same instance, I'd say yes.
 
The surprise attack rules on page 155-156 consistently use phrases such as "the attack" and "an unexpexcted attack." There's nothing in the section to suggest that an entire flurry gets to be unexpected. Also, flurried actions do not happen in "the same instance" they happen in the same tick. For example, if your first flurried attack drops your foe, you are not forced to continue beating on him.
 
Great, two different answers!   :)   Attack could mean anything.  "That guy attacked me" didn't mean he only swung once.


Actually, what happened was fairly complex.  But essentially one of the PC's (a party of lunars, most of whom have multiple human forms) was operating as an assassin in a town that another PC was trying to convert.  When the PC heard a rumor that their was an Exalted assassin working in town he wanted to know who it was and flush them out.  So he hired a 3rd PC to cause a disturbance and then tried to hire the Exalted "NPC" (he didn't know it was a PC IC or OOC) to deal with his packmate.  So then the other PC was going to ambush the other Lunar from hiding and knock him into dying levels before he could change into DBT and get regen then claim the bounty and get a nice bit of fame for having defeated a lunar and been such a successful assassin.  The first 3 arrows got almost all of his health levels and the PC being attacked refused to divulge his wound totals but he was still alive.  The PC attacked the 4th and final time and killed him.  Ooops!!  


"The souls of emperors and cobblers are cast in the same mould…. The same reason that makes us wrangle with a neighbour causes a war betwixt princes."
 
What I've done is this. The first attack triggers the Join Battle (the rules basically say that). If they get successes to go on Tick 0 (i.e. equal to or the max of the combat's tick), they get their DV for the rest of the flurry.
 
dmoonfire said:
What I've done is this. The first attack triggers the Join Battle (the rules basically say that). If they get successes to go on Tick 0 (i.e. equal to or the max of the combat's tick), they get their DV for the rest of the flurry.
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Sounds like a fair middle ground to me.
 
Great' date=' two different answers!   :)   Attack could mean anything.  "That guy attacked me" didn't mean he only swung once.[/quote']
No, but a single attack in Exalted is very specifically defined as a single pass through the attack procedure. You either make one attack, or you make a flurry of attacks, but they're all seperate entities.


I guess it boils down to how powerful you want stealth to be. Using it for only one attack makes stealth powerful. Using it for all attacks in the flurry makes stealth incredibly powerful.
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One attack, not multiples, that way your PC's will stay alive, not have to roll a new charecter and not want to kill each other out of game :D
 
Eh, thats not too bad. I once started an interrogation of a guy that I knew didn't have the info I wanted. After a bit of pointless questioning, I tossed the guy off a balcony just to get his buddy to tell me what I wanted. Shocked the hell outta my ST, but it worked rather nicely.
 
I dislike forcing elements of character on players. But to stay true to the genre you often have to do that. One thing I make clear to them is that a God has chosen them, who has looked into their very souls to make sure he is picking “the right stuff.â€
 
Sol is not a goody two-shoes, or even close to it. He dragged down his masters, killed and imprisoned them, because they didn't let him play their games.


The shards seek out those who will use them, not necessarily those who will use them for good. If you even believe that there's such a thing as objective good. The Exalted universe doesn't seem to think so, or at least doesn't hold it to be very important.
 
Let's not forget Moray Darktide. He's a Solar and he works for the Silver Prince. Most assuredly not a goody two shoes. There's nothing written that says all Solars have to be good. That's just not the case. If you want to make it a qualification of your game, that's another matter. But all Solars aren't good.
 
The way I've done things in my game was:


Attacker makes his dex + stealth + modifiers per normal vs the defenders wits + awareness + mods. Each net succ over his opponent the assassin gets to make 1 attack in the flurry as unexpected. Magical flurries are all considered to be fast enough for them to all be unexpected.


Soak charms can still be used on unexpected attacks. Best way not to get nailed by assassins is to get the charms. They'll save your life if properly combo-ed.
 
Moonsilver said:
Sol takes a personal interest in this, after all these are going to be his Exalted.
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It's really just Lytek with a fake mustache and a pair of prosthetic arms strapped to his shoulders  :lol:
 
*looks at the thread*


*looks at Moonsilver*


Riiiight.... I'm sure that Sol Invictis is a "good" guy, who only conspired with his fellow gods to kill their creators after getting the help of 2 of them (Gaia and Autochton), and who made Luna link her exalted to his in a lower position on the totem pole. Who listened to his solars and go to Autochton after the war and say "Listen up, those dwarves of yours? They gotta get geased to listen to my boys and basically be the bitches of exalts." And who turned his attention away from his boys to do some Games of Divinity and pissed off when they took his name in vain.


Yeah... real nice guy there. remember, the war on the Primordials started with a "Lol, Surprise! Ambush! Join Battle!"


Also look at the West book for a few notations on WHAT happened after the Primordial war to the west... genocide were occassionally done to those who refused to bow their heads to the Solar Deliberate.


And when the sidereal book comes out, I suspect that there are going to be pointed *coughs* from the sidereals in regards to the First Age Solars.


If you have the first edition book, look in the outcase book, specifically, the Forest Witches, and how twisted the forest started out because of a solar. Also, look at the aspect book on the notations of the first age, some of which are done in "first person" POV. And if you look in the Creatures of the Wyld, you'll find a bio-engineered creature designed by a Night caste to provide poison on demand.


No, Moonsilver, Solars are NOT nice guys... not by default.
 
Dude, Sol is (self?)righteous. Not stupid. Leaving the MF:s to do their thing without safeguards, would have been more than a little dangerous.


As for the reasons behind the Gods revolt, they're really never described in any detail, so that's all perception. You can go either way with that argument.
 
Well the above quotes are there to be read. But as I go into later, you need to be careful as to what you read into anything.


I see Sol has having an enormous ego and pride. Remember the anthromorphic nature of the gods? Remember also that great evil can be done for the best of reasons.


But it’s a Curse for Solars to slaughter people not a Virtue.


Yes Sol likes to be in control, to be recognised as first among the celestials and set things up that way. I don’t see that as a problem. I am not over doing the “goodâ€
 
I suppose if being smart and "righteous" is to stab your allies in the back... I prefer to not be smart or "righteous" by those standards.
 
I will make my answer to this discussion in two sentences:


This is Exalted.


Everyone has ninjas.
 
Moonsilver said:
*snips out stuff*
I may be committing forum heresy here, but cannon does take some reading between the lines, particular to game design and commercial considerations.


I started out with a slim reply and ended of with a fat tome, sorry about that.
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And thus, you have been baptized and made part of the ECR.  :twisted:


Seriously, we're not asking for you to give up your ideas on exalted. Or even saying that Solars are bastards to the bone (some of them are, but most aren't). Also note that you're a bastard when viewed by OTHER people, not in your context.


Say, you're a solar who wishes to change the world and make slavery no more... what with you being a slave original who exalted... etc etc...


Think about HOW you're going to go about this... no matter what, you're likely going to be liberating slaves. And who are you liberating from? The guild or some random slaver. Whose only fault is that they're operating within the social framework of Creation to the best of their abilities. And what of the guards that you massacred or fought/wounded and stuff? Think of their families. How would THEY view you? Yeah... even the best ideas can be bad in their execution...
 
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