Starting with Sorcery

magnificentmomo

magnificentmomo

That Guy
I am a silly little nublet and can't find the rules for starting out with sorcery. I understand the trials and whatnot, but I can not find the BP cost for spells.
 
Spells cost the same as Charms; generally you're allowed to swap out starting Charms for spells, as well. This is fortunate because, after buying yourself up to Essence 3 in order to qualify for the Terrestrial Circle Sorcery Charm, you won't have many bonus points left.
 
In 1e, there was a background for Sorcery and Necromancy that let you purchace spells.  The first three dots gave you a first level spell.  The forth and fifth dot gave you the option of getting a second level spell instead of more level ones.
 
I don't understand how the lack of a background makes 2e superior.
 
I should have been more clear, and maybe I'm talking out of my @$$ since I'm unfamiliar with 1ed, but it seems that allowing players to *buy* their way to more powerful spell Circles (which is what I assume--if I'm wrong, it's "my bad"--you mean when you speak of 1st and 2nd level spells).


Anyway, if that's the case, I think the Charm-based method in 2ed is superior. If I've misunderstood, then I'll take myself out to the woodshed...
 
Personally, I feel the absence of the background is superior, yes, but I'm not sure everyone's operating on the same level.


The Sorcery (or Necromancy) Background allowed you to have extra spells at character creation by buying the background. One still needed to meet all the prerequisites (AKA 3/4 Essence, know the Charm) in orcer to be able to do this, but it allowed you to start with extra spells just by buying a background.


Now, seeing as how spells are (usually) as powerful or more powerful than Charms, and nobody's making a Background to allow someone more Charms at chargen, I feel that the Backgrounds in question should remain gone from the new edition, personally. *shrugs*


Either way, it's all in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.
 
With the 2e tick system, a sorcerer is still at a disadvantage in the midst of a battle when you look at the list of Charms that allow you to drop your speed to as low as 2.  Those Charms do not work on sorcery.  It still takes you five to fifteen ticks to shape the spell, then another five to fire it off.  In that time, you have been ass-raped by the swarm of extras that you were trying to take down with your Obsidian Butterflies spell.  


Yes, sorcery is powerful, but it does have its drawbacks.  Spells also use willpower with every casting, and will usually burn through more Essence than Charms at the top of their repective trees, and can never be included in a combo or used with an Excellency.


So, on one side we have a Dawn caste Solar with his Daiklave and a shitload of melee Charms.  On the other side, we have a Twilight with a shitload of spells.  Who would you bet on?  Without some support, that mage is in trouble.
 
Sherwood said:
So, on one side we have a Dawn caste Solar with his Daiklave and a shitload of melee Charms.  On the other side, we have a Twilight with a shitload of spells.  Who would you bet on?  Without some support, that mage is in trouble.
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Wrong Question.


On one side, we have five melee monkeys with BFSs.


On the other, we have a circle including two melee monkeys, a bow bunny, a martial artist, and a spellcaster.  All of whom are kitted out with custom artifacts your Twilight spellcaster made for them.


Who would I bet on in this case?


Besides, having finally gotten access to sorcery for my Twilight, on going through the White Treatise I think probably 80% or more of the spells I spend my 8 XP on are going to be travel or utility spells.  There is stuff you can't do in other ways (countermagic, banishment, safe summonings).  The remaining "combat" spells are likely to largely be buff spells.  When the Join Battle rolls have been made, he reverts to Righteous Devil Style martial arts with flametongue repeaters.  He's not as scary as the Serious Bow Bunny, nor the two lunars in the group.  But when we are trying to figure out some puzzle and the ST says, "Make an Int plus lore roll" we aren't expecting the Full Moon to even reach for the dice.  And everyone makes nice with the Twilight when the magitech toys need some fittings tightened.


If you want to play a "combat spell" monkey, may I suggest D&D?  Fireball, fireball, lightning bolt!
 
Well I've always thought both type of magic were more in the utility type than in the combat use type.


There are powerful combat spells in both sorcery and necromancy, but their power, to me, comes from stuff only THEY can do, without any prerequisite charms needed.


I mean occult makes you do anything: stealth, athletics, fly, read or speak foreign languages, restore stuf, find hidden stuff, deliver messages etc etc (and let's not talk about summonning or solar/void circle spells).


If you're a sorcerer, you are your group's best friend because you can actually do anything the others can't... if you choose the right spells of course... but a combat sorcerer... come oooon, with the tick system... try melee/martial arts in favored abilities and buy one charm once in a while, and there you go.
 
I would like to point out that I said nothing about trying to be a combat sorcerer, I just asked about starting with the damn things. Also death of obsidian butterflies only takes 1 shaping action, but I am not trying to validate combat sorcery.
 
Don't wory, dude.  I don't beleive that you are being flamed for this.  I sorta kicked things up a bit when I posted my observations.
 
Aya, I use sorcery for utility more than combat, myself....on the rare occasions I play sorcerors. I also rarely even consider the circles above Terrestrial/Shadowlands. I still feel that the backgrounds should not exist because the sheer utility of being able to pick up half a sword and voila, have a shiny new daiklaive in a few seconds and travel hundreds of miles in a few minutes is just as powerful as anyone able to Fivefold Bulwark Stance or similar. So, I still stand by my statement. I never said that it was because I felt it overpowered in combat. It was because I felt that spells were as powerful or more powerful than Charms in general. I still do.


And yep...shrugging FTW! :)
 
magnificentmomo said:
I would like to point out that I said nothing about trying to be a combat sorcerer, I just asked about starting with the damn things. Also death of obsidian butterflies only takes 1 shaping action, but I am not trying to validate combat sorcery.
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Right, but thread drift man!  That's half the fun of internet forums.
 
Sherwood said:
Don't wory, dude.  I don't beleive that you are being flamed for this.  I sorta kicked things up a bit when I posted my observations.
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That's not a flame.  That's a well-reasoned argument.


A flame would be something more like:


YOU FUCKING SUCK!  I HOPE YOU GET RAPED! TWICE!  DIE! DIE! DIE!  


Except with worse spelling, grammer, and punctuation.
 
AN APOLOGY WON'T REPLACE THE FUCKING TIME AND EFFORT THAT I WASTED IN READING THAT DRIVIL!


DON'T YOU KNOW THAT I HAVE TO READ EVERY GODDAMN FUCKING ASSBITING WORD THAT ANYONE WHO POSTS HERE WRITES?  EVERY COCKSUCKING, FAT FUCKING WORD, AND YOURS MAKE MY EYES WANT TO BLEED BILE AND PUS THEY ARE SO WASTED AND PURILE!


DO US A FAVOR, AND RIP OUT  YOUR FINGERNAILS AND THAT MIGHT MAKE YOU THINK TWICE ABOUT WHAT YOU TYPE, YOU FESTERING POT OF MALAISE!
 
For Sherwood's sig...


Coffeemantra.jpg
 
LOL  It was a similar pic that I got it from, but that one works much better.
 
AN APOLOGY WON'T REPLACE THE FUCKING TIME AND EFFORT THAT I WASTED IN READING THAT DRIVIL!
DON'T YOU KNOW THAT I HAVE TO READ EVERY GODDAMN FUCKING ASSBITING WORD THAT ANYONE WHO POSTS HERE WRITES?  EVERY COCKSUCKING, FAT FUCKING WORD, AND YOURS MAKE MY EYES WANT TO BLEED BILE AND PUS THEY ARE SO WASTED AND PURILE!


DO US A FAVOR, AND RIP OUT  YOUR FINGERNAILS AND THAT MIGHT MAKE YOU THINK TWICE ABOUT WHAT YOU TYPE, YOU FESTERING POT OF MALAISE!
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You made my easter a little funnier. Thank you.


BTW, are we allowed to continue the previous discussion here or we should create another topic?
 
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