Smashfists and Melee?

[Darkon]

Ok, so in the Exalted core book, Smashfists are tagged with the "M" tag. The description for the "M" tag is as follows:

May be weilded with Martial Arts or Melee.

So, what I am wondering is how is this even possible? I'm having a hard time seeing Smashfists being used with the Melee ability. Is there something that I am missing here, or is this a case of

[QUOTE="Michael Goodwin]Common sense is supposed to guide interpretation of the rules.

[/QUOTE] and Smashfists are actually only Martial Arts weapons? Is there an obvious or not so obvious reason why Smashfists can be used with the Melee ability?
Thanks

 

[Arthur]

Common sense isn't the same as sense of reality. It also applies for when you need to decide whether some rule is going to make the game funner. I believe it's simply a mechanic way of making the weapon usable by a greater number of characters.


Not that it makes any sense, I agree in that part. See also: Firewands being used with Archery.

 

[Chaka]

Not that it makes any sense, I agree in that part. See also: Firewands being used with Archery.

Wrong.


Archery and firearms use are related skills in real life, with a trained gunman or archer usually having a certain amount of ability in the other by virtue of them being similar skills. Using Archery for both makes perfect sense.

 

[Flagg]

The underlying problem is that "martial arts" and "melee" aren't actually separate skills in real life.

 

[Nightmare of Fallen Kings]

You could always attach a Smashfist to the end of a pole and hit people with it. That would be used with Melee, right? I see your point though, it really only seems viable as a Martial Arts Weapon. It could be yet another issue that was overlooked by Whitewolf's infamous editing department. I've just been using them as MA weapons.

 

[Fomoria]

I would put it down to the different defensive styles implied by the melee and martial arts abilities. Martial artists cannot employ parries because their training fundamentally assumes a lack of armaments which one can safely parry with. Smashfists can be employed to parry weapons and therefore can make use of Melee should it be more efficient to do so.


Melee and martial arts cover more than just how one attacks using their weapon, after all.

 

[Arthur]

Not that it makes any sense, I agree in that part. See also: Firewands being used with Archery.

Wrong.


Archery and firearms use are related skills in real life, with a trained gunman or archer usually having a certain amount of ability in the other by virtue of them being similar skills. Using Archery for both makes perfect sense.

It means that if I gave Legolas a shotgun, he would be able to use it as masterfully as he uses his bow?


In Exalted he certainly would.


Edit: typo.

 

[FluffySquirrel]

Well.. .. ..yeah?


I fail to get your example.. Legolas would kick -ass- with a shotgun, you could hand that guy a war yoyo and he'd still probably rack up a double digit kill count

 

[Arthur]

Legolas is the absolutely perfect archer. No other character in LotR is better than he is in that area. What I'm saying is that I doubt that he would be as good as he is with bows with firearms just because he has dots in Archery. The two tasks seem pretty unrelated, and, in Exalted, you can use bows EXACTLY as skillfully as you can use guns, even if you never saw one before.

 

[skafte]

Legolas is the absolutely perfect archer. No other character in LotR is better than he is in that area. What I'm saying is that I doubt that he would be as good as he is with bows with firearms just because he has dots in Archery. The two tasks seem pretty unrelated, and, in Exalted, you can use bows EXACTLY as skillfully as you can use guns, even if you never saw one before.

And you can use a Gore Maul just as well as a knife with Melee. There will always be cases like that when you only have 25 abilities to put a certain task under.


Legolas may have 3 dots of bow specialities, if that makes it better for you


I guess what is ment by being just as good with a bow as with a firearm, is that you will have the basic understanding of aiming higher when firing at a long range target instead of a close range target, and aiming infront of a moving target. Something you need with all types of range weapons. Yes, you have to ain less infront with a firearm than with a bow, but the same counts between a longbow and crossbow / powerbow / shortbow...

 

[Arthur]

Thrown also requires aiming, and it is a completely separate ability.


I guess what is implied is that they didn't find any other ability to put firearms under, then they just used Archery, which makes a little bit more sense than Thrown.

 

[Flagg]

Tangent: Does it bother you non-native English speakers that "Thrown" is the only Ability named in the past tense? I know it bugs the shit out of me...

 

[Arthur]

Other things bother much more. The fact that Fair-Folk is nearly untranslatable (to Portuguese =P) without getting female/ridiculous/homosexual connotation is one.


BTW:


ONE THOUSAND POSTS!!! WORSHIP ME, YOU BITCHES!!!

 

[Lord Kamina]

Thrown is pretty weird but certainly sounds better than Throw or Throwery...


So, what's you suggestion? Using the "expanded ability system" where I have Archery[bows] and Archery[Guns] and turn a pretty complex system into something nigh unplayable in favor of realism and e-penis?

 

[Arthur]

I'm saying the system is unrealistic, not that it should be otherwise.


I'm fine with lack of realism.

 

[Smeggedoff]

Thrown is pretty weird but certainly sounds better than Throw or Throwery...
So, what's you suggestion? Using the "expanded ability system" where I have Archery[bows] and Archery[Guns] and turn a pretty complex system into something nigh unplayable in favor of realism and e-penis?

Throwery?


and I think legolas with a shotgun would be pretty bad ass

 

[Sherwood]

Naaah, he doesn't work in my mind with a shotgun. He needs an assult rifle, or a pistol for some good ol' fasioned gunslinging!

 

[Nightmare of Fallen Kings]

I can understand Firewands using Archery, as it seems the most applicable skill. When it comes down to it, firewands are, in essence, guns. Guns are probably the easiest to use weapon man has ever invented. Once he knows how to load one, any idiot can pick one up, point it what he wants to die, and pull the trigger. Don't get me wrong, there is skill involved with using a gun as well, but it's far less skill than is required for something like archery. Honestly, it's kind of hard to miss when you're shooting a huge gout of flame, as long as you're in range and pointing the right end of it at the target, you're pretty much peachy.


As far as Thrown goes the closest I think they could have gotten would be "Throwing", but then it's a verb. We just don't really have a good word for that D:


As far as Martial Artists not know how to parry, that's bull. You can use your Parry DV with Martial Arts just as well as with melee. If your style has a form weapon, you can use it to block lethal damage completely effectively. Smashfists are gloves with metal bands on them, why couldn't a character parry with the metal bands on the backs of their hands? i think that would be pretty slick. Kind of like the tailor in Kung Fu Hustle blocking hatchets with the metal rings on his wrists. Granted, your style would have to be one that uses Smashfists as a form weapon, such as Solar Hero Style, mastered Celestial Monkey Style, or Mantis Style. If they didn't intend for characters to parry with Smashfists, they wouldn't have given them a +2 Def rating

 

[skafte]

Tangent: Does it bother you non-native English speakers that "Thrown" is the only Ability named in the past tense? I know it bugs the shit out of me...

I have noticed it, but can't say it have bugged me.


As Arthur, Fair Folk is a lot more trouble some. It doesn't work to translate it to danish, as that will be elf, with have been poluted into meaning elfs like in LotR or Warhammer, but should in this case be the old folk lore way. And trying to put danish endings for plural and one on a fay is just hopeless - much like their nature, hehe

 

[Lord Kamina]

The way I see it (Disclaimer: I am talking out of my ass, so feel free to correct me):


If someone knows how to use a bow, he WILL KNOW how to use a gun. Why? Because guns are easier to use (aim with).


Now, a lot of people will advocate to the opposite, BUT... Everything that's hard in a gun doesn't actually fall under Archery. For example... Drawing your gun and readying it quickly... That's Awareness...


And... Like I said before, there's no need to continue complicating the system like with, for example, the expanded ability system (I don't remember if that is on Lore5 or where, but while it's a great mind-jerkoff, it'd make the game unnecesarilly complex)

 

[Arthur]

As Arthur, Fair Folk is a lot more trouble some.

In Portuguese, the closest thing we have is "Fairy", but if you say Fairy to any Brazilian, this is the first thing that will probably come to his mind:

 

[Lord Kamina]

As Arthur, Fair Folk is a lot more trouble some.

In Portuguese, the closest thing we have is "Fairy", but if you say Fairy to any Brazilian, this is the first thing that will probably come to his mind:

The fair folks ARE FAIRYS. Or rather, the fairys ARE fair folk...


Basically, it's kinda like Red riding hood... Have you heard about the original versions?

 

[Flagg]

It's the same in English, Arthur.

 

[Chaka]

And it really stops being an issue when you remember what the Fae were meant to be like...

 

[Smeggedoff]

As Arthur, Fair Folk is a lot more trouble some.

In Portuguese, the closest thing we have is "Fairy", but if you say Fairy to any Brazilian, this is the first thing that will probably come to his mind:

The fair folks ARE FAIRYS. Or rather, the fairys ARE fair folk...


Basically, it's kinda like Red riding hood... Have you heard about the original versions?

why yes, yes I have. have you heard the original sleeping beauty?