Fandom Shirou Emiya's Smithing Shop - OOC

[Darkholme]

Except I know the identities of all Servants and I can legit confirm Team Assassin have figured out everyone except for Ruler correctly with parameters, appearance pictures, and observing IC mannerisms alone.

I actually have to commend them for doing their best to win, since Assassin is usually seen as the weakest class.

Also you can stop with the arrogance. I am telling you right now they know everyone's identity. They actually gave me their analysis and reasons to conclude certain things. They figured out Saber because of Saber's Noble Phantasm parameter being A++ and matching accordingly with a certain other statistic that I can't talk about. Team Assassin is just the Magnificent Bastard trope being given form OOC.

I suspect the issue isn't with the fact that they managed to figure everyone out - it's the fact that you confirmed their guesses. Don't get me wrong - I believe that based on the IC information available to them, they should be allowed to formulate guesses and then have their guesses be confirmed to them. But as far as I can see, Team Assassin has only interacted with Lancer, Saber, Berserker, and notCaster. Based on that, the only people who revealed anything that could leave a hint to their identity were Lancer and Berserker(who I intentionally made easy to guess) - and Caster actually left behind a false flag, which would make it harder for them to make that guess ICly. As a GM, I wouldn't have revealed anything regarding any of the 5(7) other servants to a player unless they had earned it.

Although, you do have a different, slightly more casual style. Even with me, you were willing to confirm one of my guesses in DMs. Normally I wouldn't mind that too much - clearly you have a lot of trust in your players. I think it was more Dal's comments about using that information to his advantage and "holding his cards close to his chest" was what caused the stir. That is basically a declaration of intent to metagame, which betrays that trust you put in your players.

 

[Birdsie]

I suspect the issue isn't with the fact that they managed to figure everyone out - it's the fact that you confirmed their guesses. Don't get me wrong - I believe that based on the IC information available to them, they should be allowed to formulate guesses and then have their guesses be confirmed to them. But as far as I can see, Team Assassin has only interacted with Lancer, Saber, Berserker, and notCaster. Based on that, the only people who revealed anything that could leave a hint to their identity were Lancer and Berserker(who I intentionally made easy to guess) - and Caster actually left behind a false flag, which would make it harder for them to make that guess ICly. As a GM, I wouldn't have revealed anything regarding any of the 5(7) other servants to a player unless they had earned it.

Although, you do have a different, slightly more casual style. Even with me, you were willing to confirm one of my guesses in DMs. Normally I wouldn't mind that too much - clearly you have a lot of trust in your players. I think it was more Dal's comments about using that information to his advantage and "holding his cards close to his chest" was what caused the stir. That is basically a declaration of intent to metagame, which betrays that trust you put in your players.

Of course I have a lot of trust in my players. I am no more a judicator than a mediator. Assume the players are the body. In that case, I am the brain and nervous system that holds the body together. If the brain can't trust the flesh that envelopes it, what point is there to trying to collaborate?

Either way, I admit to confirming their guesses after they tightened them down. Let's not play around here; I admit it was a bit unfair, but they pretty much had things handled without me. I merely nodded the small suspicions they had away. They had half of the Servants down by the time Night 0 started, and honestly, I was impressed. Despite that, I never really revealed anything. All of the Servant names were achieved by themselves. Same goes for any information. I didn't actually reveal anything to anyone other than CONFIRM already articulate and tight guesses. Other than that, I also told them a bit about Beast, since they figured him out and I thought they earned a reward.

 

[Birdsie]

This is record timing.

Either way, I feel like a horrible GM for letting something this asymmetric happen. I guess I'll have to take measures next time; no more Beasts, I'll have to be stricter with power levels, and lastly, I'll stop having Servants upload their parameters. Maybe even restrict appearance pictures. That way, guessing will be harder. And with more restricted power levels, things like the Caster-Saber-Berserker thing won't happen again. Caster started out overpowered, so Saber and Berserker did the same to make up for it. It was my bad for letting it through, though, so I apologize.

Lastly, I suppose we'll start Night 1 in a while unless anyone has objections.

 

[Xel]

This is record timing.

Either way, I feel like a horrible GM for letting something this asymmetric happen. I guess I'll have to take measures next time; no more Beasts, I'll have to be stricter with power levels, and lastly, I'll stop having Servants upload their parameters. Maybe even restrict appearance pictures. That way, guessing will be harder. And with more restricted power levels, things like the Caster-Saber-Berserker thing won't happen again. Caster started out overpowered, so Saber and Berserker did the same to make up for it. It was my bad for letting it through, though, so I apologize.

Lastly, I suppose we'll start Night 1 in a while unless anyone has objections.

There isn't an issue with showing parameters (it's mandatory to know how to respond in various situations). Same for appearances, players chose them so it's up to them to decide how obvious they want to be. Guessing also isn't an issue, it's just not something the GM should be involved in at any level. Even if someone guesses correctly they need to get the confirmation from the other player, not the GM.

As for power levels, I don't see any issue. If you don't want to read my ramblings where I state the same thing in twenty different ways there's a TL; DR at the bottom.

The supposed Caster-Saber-Berserker thing hasn't done anything. All this worry and fear over overpowered characters when nothing has actually happened is silly. Saber hasn't done anything that even rivals canon characters, let alone be some super scary overpowered guy. Same for Berserker. And I, as Caster, haven't done anything except shoot some arrows. To be upset over "overpowered characters" at this junction is just absurd. It's like throwing a fit over Lancer because of their EX rank NP, or Archer for theirs. Whether a character's power level is a problem or not can't be seen until they actually use that power. Fate without heroes like Vlad, Herc, Gil, etc etc etc would be pretty boring.

Fate has never been balanced and anyone who roleplays it should go in knowing that it's entirely possible you'll be the Cu to someone's Gil. This isn't a competition that you need to win, it's a roleplay to have fun. And if you're overpowered by another character don't cry about it, do your best to give yourself an amazing exit with a badass fight to the death. Iskander's final charge against Gil wasn't hurt by the sheer gap in power, it was empowered. It endeared you to him, his last final act of facing a foe he knew he couldn't beat without hesitation or fear. Anyone who goes into a Fate roleplay treating it like a game they have to get first place in doesn't understand the appeal of Fate to begin with. After all, in all the Fate stories out there, nobody has ever won and everyone always dies. Expecting anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment regardless of the power levels.

I think back on your last Fate RP where I was probably the weakest servant (can't say for certain since I don't know who the others are, but with my only strong point being stealth and no hard-hitting offensive capabilities, I'm pretty confident in this assessment) and I never once lamented my power level or was upset that I'd lose. I knew before I even made my character that I'd lose. It wasn't about winning or losing, it was about doing cool fights and having fun roleplay and going out in a blaze of glory after popping my ultimate noble phantasm. The same applies to the Infinity RP I'm in and the same applies here. As long as I get cool fights and fun roleplay I couldn't care less if I win or lose, especially since as I said, everyone dies in Fate.

For me, Fate is about doing cool and flashy stuff and dying heroicly. The power levels of characters simply don't matter, unless someone comes in and tries to end everything night one because they have some instant "I kill everyone" ability, then that's a bit much since it prevents flashy fights and fun roleplay. As long as people can fight, die, and roleplay I don't think it matters. Some people take on more powerful roles to be the Gilgamesh's and Hercules' of the roleplay. Others take weaker roles to be the Medusa's and Cu's of the roleplay. You don't look down on Cu or Medusa for being weaker and standing no chance against Herc or Gil, so why would you view characters in RP as less in the same situation? Just have fun, don't care about winning.

TL; DR Fate RP isn't about winning, it's about cool fights and fun roleplay. So worrying about power levels is silly.

 

[Birdsie]

There isn't an issue with showing parameters (it's mandatory to know how to respond in various situations). Same for appearances, players chose them so it's up to them to decide how obvious they want to be. Guessing also isn't an issue, it's just not something the GM should be involved in at any level. Even if someone guesses correctly they need to get the confirmation from the other player, not the GM.

As for power levels, I don't see any issue. If you don't want to read my ramblings where I state the same thing in twenty different ways there's a TL; DR at the bottom.

The supposed Caster-Saber-Berserker thing hasn't done anything. All this worry and fear over overpowered characters when nothing has actually happened is silly. Saber hasn't done anything that even rivals canon characters, let alone be some super scary overpowered guy. Same for Berserker. And I, as Caster, haven't done anything except shoot some arrows. To be upset over "overpowered characters" at this junction is just absurd. It's like throwing a fit over Lancer because of their EX rank NP, or Archer for theirs. Whether a character's power level is a problem or not can't be seen until they actually use that power. Fate without heroes like Vlad, Herc, Gil, etc etc etc would be pretty boring.

Fate has never been balanced and anyone who roleplays it should go in knowing that it's entirely possible you'll be the Cu to someone's Gil. This isn't a competition that you need to win, it's a roleplay to have fun. And if you're overpowered by another character don't cry about it, do your best to give yourself an amazing exit with a badass fight to the death. Iskander's final charge against Gil wasn't hurt by the sheer gap in power, it was empowered. It endeared you to him, his last final act of facing a foe he knew he couldn't beat without hesitation or fear. Anyone who goes into a Fate roleplay treating it like a game they have to get first place in doesn't understand the appeal of Fate to begin with. After all, in all the Fate stories out there, nobody has ever won and everyone always dies. Expecting anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment regardless of the power levels.

I think back on your last Fate RP where I was probably the weakest servant (can't say for certain since I don't know who the others are, but with my only strong point being stealth and no hard-hitting offensive capabilities, I'm pretty confident in this assessment) and I never once lamented my power level or was upset that I'd lose. I knew before I even made my character that I'd lose. It wasn't about winning or losing, it was about doing cool fights and having fun roleplay and going out in a blaze of glory after popping my ultimate noble phantasm. The same applies to the Infinity RP I'm in and the same applies here. As long as I get cool fights and fun roleplay I couldn't care less if I win or lose, especially since as I said, everyone dies in Fate.

For me, Fate is about doing cool and flashy stuff and dying heroicly. The power levels of characters simply don't matter, unless someone comes in and tries to end everything night one because they have some instant "I kill everyone" ability, then that's a bit much since it prevents flashy fights and fun roleplay. As long as people can fight, die, and roleplay I don't think it matters. Some people take on more powerful roles to be the Gilgamesh's and Hercules' of the roleplay. Others take weaker roles to be the Medusa's and Cu's of the roleplay. You don't look down on Cu or Medusa for being weaker and standing no chance against Herc or Gil, so why would you view characters in RP as less in the same situation? Just have fun, don't care about winning.

TL; DR Fate RP isn't about winning, it's about cool fights and fun roleplay. So worrying about power levels is silly.

Hey, I agree.

I've GMed numerous Fantasy roleplays in the past where power limitations were very loose and I generally left individual power levels to the players themselves. Not everyone is created equal. As a rule of thumb, Villains tend to be on the stronger side to provide a challenge. But overall, the point is that if everyone is perfectly equal, the story would lose quite a bit of flavor. I don't exactly think that characters need defined limitations to their abilities so long as said abilities actually add something meaningful to the entire narrative. Whether it be making the fights flashier, opening new strategies, or just creating new possibilities.

The reason is that honestly a lot of people PLAYING here seem to have issues and complaints on power levels. I try to stand on the neutral side and fulfill the wishes of the larger amount of people, thus why I ultimately decided to tell cojemo to nerf Jeremy. And so on.

 

[Xel]

Hey, I agree.

I've GMed numerous Fantasy roleplays in the past where power limitations were very loose and I generally left individual power levels to the players themselves. Not everyone is created equal. As a rule of thumb, Villains tend to be on the stronger side to provide a challenge. But overall, the point is that if everyone is perfectly equal, the story would lose quite a bit of flavor. I don't exactly think that characters need defined limitations to their abilities so long as said abilities actually add something meaningful to the entire narrative. Whether it be making the fights flashier, opening new strategies, or just creating new possibilities.

The reason is that honestly a lot of people PLAYING here seem to have issues and complaints on power levels. I try to stand on the neutral side and fulfill the wishes of the larger amount of people, thus why I ultimately decided to tell cojemo to nerf Jeremy. And so on.

The thing about Fate is the servants themselves are both heroes and villains. It wasn't Beast that was the villain of F/Z, it was Caster summoning an eldritch horror that everyone had to team up against. It was Berserker being a little shit and hard-countering Gil and being the final boss for Saber. It was Kirei and his machinations. Same for FSN, it was Gilgamesh and Kirei, Hercules, and Caster. That's why you need OP heroes, they're the antagonists. Without them you need some third party like the Beast to provide an antagonist to fight against.

Also, this is for everyone. But after my long ramble I feel like explaining my motivations. I don't know about Saber or Berserker, I'm sure God and Dark picked their servants for equally mundane reasons. But for those of you who know Caster's identity, I didn't pick them to be overpowered. I wasn't thinking "ha ha I'm going to steamroll everyone and be unbeatable!". My reasoning for picking them is I wanted to fuck with people and then fly around shooting exploding lasers. That's it. That is LITERALLY all I thought about when picking my servant. I just wanted to fly around shooting lasers at people. And the person I picked was the best option for accomplishing those two things. When it comes to Casters there's a surprisingly limited pool for just straight mages who shoot lasers at people, and they're all really powerful.

So that's something people need to keep in mind. Very few people go into a roleplay expressly wanting to curbstomp everyone else. I just wanted to shoot lasers at people while flying in the sky like a smug prick. It was really just that simple. The fact that I could fulfill my duty as Caster and be a huge douche half-way through the story was just an added bonus (seriously, caster's always a mid-season boss). So, yeah. Just simple joys, as I'm sure were the motivating factors for everyone's choice of servant.

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

I suspect the issue isn't with the fact that they managed to figure everyone out - it's the fact that you confirmed their guesses. Don't get me wrong - I believe that based on the IC information available to them, they should be allowed to formulate guesses and then have their guesses be confirmed to them. But as far as I can see, Team Assassin has only interacted with Lancer, Saber, Berserker, and notCaster. Based on that, the only people who revealed anything that could leave a hint to their identity were Lancer and Berserker(who I intentionally made easy to guess) - and Caster actually left behind a false flag, which would make it harder for them to make that guess ICly. As a GM, I wouldn't have revealed anything regarding any of the 5(7) other servants to a player unless they had earned it.

Although, you do have a different, slightly more casual style. Even with me, you were willing to confirm one of my guesses in DMs. Normally I wouldn't mind that too much - clearly you have a lot of trust in your players. I think it was more Dal's comments about using that information to his advantage and "holding his cards close to his chest" was what caused the stir. That is basically a declaration of intent to metagame, which betrays that trust you put in your players.

You wound me. I've known Birdsie since I first joined the site. I ended up joining an RP he was in with a, personally, rather stupid character. I would never betray his trust in me. And I don't metagame. I've already explained to Xel what I meant by that, but it seems I need to explain it to you too.

Correction, it's an advantage because if I am correct, then I don't want any one else to know, even if it is only OOC.

As stated here, I consider it an advantage over other players, not an IC advantage. I have information my fellows do not have, thus putting me ahead of them, in a metaphorical sense.

 

[HTCOR]

Hey, I agree.

I've GMed numerous Fantasy roleplays in the past where power limitations were very loose and I generally left individual power levels to the players themselves. Not everyone is created equal. As a rule of thumb, Villains tend to be on the stronger side to provide a challenge. But overall, the point is that if everyone is perfectly equal, the story would lose quite a bit of flavor. I don't exactly think that characters need defined limitations to their abilities so long as said abilities actually add something meaningful to the entire narrative. Whether it be making the fights flashier, opening new strategies, or just creating new possibilities.

The reason is that honestly a lot of people PLAYING here seem to have issues and complaints on power levels. I try to stand on the neutral side and fulfill the wishes of the larger amount of people, thus why I ultimately decided to tell cojemo to nerf Jeremy. And so on.

Noted dutifully.


My issues are irregular. Need to be rational.


Apologies. To all, really. Considering going, as to not taint further.

Too used to competitive. Not cooperative. Pardon.

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

Noted dutifully.


My issues are irregular. Need to be rational.


Apologies. To all, really. Considering going, as to not taint further.

Too used to competitive. Not cooperative. Pardon.

Stop it.

 

[Birdsie]

Noted dutifully.


My issues are irregular. Need to be rational.


Apologies. To all, really. Considering going, as to not taint further.

Too used to competitive. Not cooperative. Pardon.

Stop it.

Dafuq...

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

Dafuq...

I honestly don't know. He's saying he needs to attone and that he feels bad on Discord, posts here, and now won't respond.

 

[HTCOR]

Note. I'm going to be fine.


Took an hour off. Decided to explode some stuff, and set off fireworks.

It was fun.

Anyways! I don't intend to Metagame with the information I figured out, Darkholme

I literally tried to figure it out for the pure challenge. In Xel's case, I'm fine with them now. I thought they were going for the 'Oh god' aspect as there's a distinct note on them. I mean, they'd be fine if they don't play to that note, and I'll mention it to Xel in a PM.

Edit: Said Note is a "Hey, this person has this trait. Said trait is identified in their legend, and its kind of like 'oh come on' sort of deal.

 

[Girouette]

Honestly Xels character doesn't really annoy anyone from a power standpoint.

Power is fine. I like powerful characters and intense fights. And in sure everyone else does too.

The problem I think most people had, as far as I'm aware, is the characters existence as s a servant being impossible by Canon lore standards in fate.

Which again is fine, but also the attitude expressed about Canon lore from him varying from blantant disgregard and passionate fervor about it depending on which side of an argument he took. Notably I've heard the expression of dislike towards his view on abnormalities like beast and ruler, when playing the servant he chose was such one. I can assume this was a misunderstanding or something, though from what I've heard.

I think other players are just upset by this, it's nothing to get violent or have too much of a dispute over. In a roleplay, we're supposed to be working for the other players enjoyment, so I'm sure we can air out grievences here, calm down and continue on with the roleplay. Yeah?

(I realize this may be a bit late, but I fell asleep).

 

[Godhowsae]

I'm going to start my night phase soon.

 

[Xel]

Honestly Xels character doesn't really annoy anyone from a power standpoint.

Power is fine. I like powerful characters and intense fights. And in sure everyone else does too.

The problem I think most people had, as far as I'm aware, is the characters existence as s a servant being impossible by Canon lore standards in fate.

Which again is fine, but also the attitude expressed about Canon lore from him varying from blantant disgregard and passionate fervor about it depending on which side of an argument he took. Notably I've heard the expression of dislike towards his view on abnormalities like beast and ruler, when playing the servant he chose was such one. I can assume this was a misunderstanding or something, though from what I've heard.

I think other players are just upset by this, it's nothing to get violent or have too much of a dispute over. In a roleplay, we're supposed to be working for the other players enjoyment, so I'm sure we can air out grievences here, calm down and continue on with the roleplay. Yeah?

(I realize this may be a bit late, but I fell asleep).

My disregard for lore is consistent when you realize it's based around roleplay. Some aspects of lore are relevant to roleplay, some aren't. When I disregarded magic it's because it's irrelevant to roleplay. Even those who defended the fate magic system haven't actually roleplayed it. They just go *does magic* and call it a day. There's literally no difference between usage of magic in this roleplay and usage of magic in other, non-fate, roleplays. Some aspects of lore are relevant to roleplay, such as not summoning literal gods because that's a level of overpowered that would just end the roleplay night one. No normal servant can beat someone like Zeus, so being able to summon Zeus would ruin the roleplay.

I only care about lore in respect to it's impact on the roleplay. If the lore hurts or helps the roleplay. Getting too attached to lore is detrimental to roleplay just as being too loose with it is equally detrimental. When it comes to roleplay where all the servants/masters are different players there's a goldilocks zone of lore adherence. The reason I dislike Beast/Ruler is because I, personally, want Fate/Zero out of my Fate roleplays. I just want a normal holy grail war where everyone is an equal supporting character. I don't want FSN where you have a specific main character. Nor do I want some non-standard Holy Grail War. I just want a normal HGW. The only time I'm fine with a non-standard HGW is if it's apocrypha style, but then good luck getting 28 active players lol.

The issue with my servant "being an abnormality" is that they aren't. The only thing people know about my servant is their identity. They know nothing beyond that. The only people who actually know anything about my character are Birdsie and Koss. There's a billion different ways to take a servant. You could be a Gilgamesh that is more closely based on the actual legends instead of running around shooting swords at people. So automatically assuming based purely on the servant's identity and then getting mad about that is silly. You don't know, so instead of jumping to conclusions it's better to just wait and see. Especially since the chief concern goes against common sense. Do people HONESTLY believe Birdsie would allow a servant that can do what you guys are worried about? I know for a fact he never would, so not only did people jump the gun but their faith in the GM is super low.

To close out, this whole situation is a prime example of why you reserve anger and judgement for after something actually happens. Getting angry and complaining over something that hasn't even happened and may never even happen, might not even be possible of happening, is just not something anyone should be spending energy on. Get mad and complain if someone does something game-breaking, not before anything happens.

 

[Girouette]

My disregard for lore is consistent when you realize it's based around roleplay. Some aspects of lore are relevant to roleplay, some aren't. When I disregarded magic it's because it's irrelevant to roleplay. Even those who defended the fate magic system haven't actually roleplayed it. They just go *does magic* and call it a day. There's literally no difference between usage of magic in this roleplay and usage of magic in other, non-fate, roleplays. Some aspects of lore are relevant to roleplay, such as not summoning literal gods because that's a level of overpowered that would just end the roleplay night one. No normal servant can beat someone like Zeus, so being able to summon Zeus would ruin the roleplay.

I only care about lore in respect to it's impact on the roleplay. If the lore hurts or helps the roleplay. Getting too attached to lore is detrimental to roleplay just as being too loose with it is equally detrimental. When it comes to roleplay where all the servants/masters are different players there's a goldilocks zone of lore adherence. The reason I dislike Beast/Ruler is because I, personally, want Fate/Zero out of my Fate roleplays. I just want a normal holy grail war where everyone is an equal supporting character. I don't want FSN where you have a specific main character. Nor do I want some non-standard Holy Grail War. I just want a normal HGW. The only time I'm fine with a non-standard HGW is if it's apocrypha style, but then good luck getting 28 active players lol.

The issue with my servant "being an abnormality" is that they aren't. The only thing people know about my servant is their identity. They know nothing beyond that. The only people who actually know anything about my character are Birdsie and Koss. There's a billion different ways to take a servant. You could be a Gilgamesh that is more closely based on the actual legends instead of running around shooting swords at people. So automatically assuming based purely on the servant's identity and then getting mad about that is silly. You don't know, so instead of jumping to conclusions it's better to just wait and see. Especially since the chief concern goes against common sense. Do people HONESTLY believe Birdsie would allow a servant that can do what you guys are worried about? I know for a fact he never would, so not only did people jump the gun but their faith in the GM is super low.

To close out, this whole situation is a prime example of why you reserve anger and judgement for after something actually happens. Getting angry and complaining over something that hasn't even happened and may never even happen, might not even be possible of happening, is just not something anyone should be spending energy on. Get mad and complain if someone does something game-breaking, not before anything happens.

First, I'd like us all to calm down a bit, including people reading this that are a bit upset right now and not wanting to speak for fear of more upset.

I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, but to address peoples issues is the important part here, not defend yourself.

Though it's not particularly important for this discussion, as was said before, the interest in the magic system was more than likely due to players wanting to properly roleplay the magic system, and since there's hardly been a chance for people to feel out the proper role playing of it, we should reserve judgement there, I think. It's of my personal opinion that a better understanding of the Fate universe, including the magic system, will enhance the roleplay through the players knowledge of throw things work, instead of disregarding it completely, whether or not everyone is perfectly competent at playing it out, those things are to be learned as players go on and get more comfortable with knowledge of the system itself.

You're correct in your assessment of Zeus and other divine spirits, and I thank you for your earlier explanation of Divine spirits not being summon-able earlier in the thread.

I don't have any authority, and as I said, I don't mind your character, power, or lore accuracy, I really don't. I just think people are a bit upset at being called out for things or upset through arguments earlier in the post.

I've heard from some that gloating of your characters identity being well hidden was simply because they wouldn't possibly guess them due to their existence in the fate universe already, so it was skipped over, they found this slightly annoying due to you saying how easy it was to guess others, when yours was very possibly the first thought on their mind before they thought it to be too stupid to go with due to, as I said, their already existence.

To me, this is a roleplay, and personal interpretation and warping of the lore is fine, but I think people are just upset due to their assumption of the roleplay sticking fairly closely to ln-lore history. I don't think for a moment that you don't have a good reason, nor that Birdise wouldn't be careful in allowing things, I'd like to think the best there.

But I'm sure you can understand why some are upset! Your attitude is not necessarily of my concern, as you seem to be a good role-player, but it upsets me to see people getting torn up over a roleplay, so I was hoping we could take a respectful tone in calming other worries instead of stoking the fire and insulting them more. Alright?

 

[Godhowsae]

Realistically speaking, I have to agree that most people are not going to "properly" roleplay the magic system. You may end up with one person that cares enough to do it. Personally, I don't care either way. All I care about is activity.

 

[Xel]

First, I'd like us all to calm down a bit, including people reading this that are a bit upset right now and not wanting to speak for fear of more upset.

I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, but to address peoples issues is the important part here, not defend yourself.

Though it's not particularly important for this discussion, as was said before, the interest in the magic system was more than likely due to players wanting to properly roleplay the magic system, and since there's hardly been a chance for people to feel out the proper role playing of it, we should reserve judgement there, I think. It's of my personal opinion that a better understanding of the Fate universe, including the magic system, will enhance the roleplay through the players knowledge of throw things work, instead of disregarding it completely, whether or not everyone is perfectly competent at playing it out, those things are to be learned as players go on and get more comfortable with knowledge of the system itself.

You're correct in your assessment of Zeus and other divine spirits, and I thank you for your earlier explanation of Divine spirits not being summon-able earlier in the thread.

I don't have any authority, and as I said, I don't mind your character, power, or lore accuracy, I really don't. I just think people are a bit upset at being called out for things or upset through arguments earlier in the post.

I've heard from some that gloating of your characters identity being well hidden was simply because they wouldn't possibly guess them due to their existence in the fate universe already, so it was skipped over, they found this slightly annoying due to you saying how easy it was to guess others, when yours was very possibly the first thought on their mind before they thought it to be too stupid to go with due to, as I said, their already existence.

To me, this is a roleplay, and personal interpretation and warping of the lore is fine, but I think people are just upset due to their assumption of the roleplay sticking fairly closely to ln-lore history. I don't think for a moment that you don't have a good reason, nor that Birdise wouldn't be careful in allowing things, I'd like to think the best there.

But I'm sure you can understand why some are upset! Your attitude is not necessarily of my concern, as you seem to be a good role-player, but it upsets me to see people getting torn up over a roleplay, so I was hoping we could take a respectful tone in calming other worries instead of stoking the fire and insulting them more. Alright?

I still hold to my stance on magic. Knowing the magic system is fine, but it simply isn't relevant to roleplay. Even those who defended the magic system have then gone on to roleplay *Uses spell* instead of actually adhereing to the system. The magic system is cumbersome and simply doesn't translate well to story, hence why it's basically ignored in fate stories and why it's ignored in roleplay. Nobody wants to sit around reading some ten-verse spell being cast for the 30th time. Just say you cast magic missile and let's get on with it. I hold the same position as Godhowsae on this. If you want to roleplay the system then go ahead. The only reason the argument ever even came up was because Hudhouse was having difficulty with figuring out their Master's magic and it was holding up the roleplay. So holding up the roleplay by fretting over something that will never matter is obviously something I wouldn't sit well with. The fate magic system simply isn't necessary, so it's entirely optional and no player should ever feel forced to sit down and study it for their character. This is my view on it and from all the Fate roleplays I've done I stick by this view. If you disagree, that's fine, we're not a hive mind.

As for the servant issue. My issue with it is that it's a non-issue. Even if Caster was 100% canon it still wouldn't matter. There is no way in hell Birdsie would allow someone to have a servant that can literally never be beaten under any circumstance. It's simply not possible. So to be upset over this is to not have faith in your GM and believe it IS possible Birdsie would allow this. That's why I'm upset over others being upset. This entire situation is brought about by people not having faith in their GM. This entire situation is brought about by people honestly believing Birdsie would sit by and allow a servant to be unkillable. This NEVER should have been an issue. I have never even once encountered a GM, in any roleplay, that would allow such a blatantly broken thing to happen. No matter if it was technically approved or justifiable, the GM would simply say no no matter what.

So I'm calm, but this should be a learning experience for those involved. Have more faith in your GM. Birdsie didn't take the time to get this roleplay going just to ruin it by letting a player run around as unkillable. A lot of bullshit and big reveals happen in Fate. If you can't trust your GM to step in if someone over-steps then you can't properly roleplay. No matter how powerful someone is, EVERY servant can be defeated. Even Herc or Gil could be killed. And we, as players, need to have faith that other players are abiding by their character sheets and also have faith that the GM will step in if things go off the rails.

 

[Godhowsae]

I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as heck trust Birdsie

 

[Darkholme]

You wound me. I've known Birdsie since I first joined the site. I ended up joining an RP he was in with a, personally, rather stupid character. I would never betray his trust in me. And I don't metagame. I've already explained to Xel what I meant by that, but it seems I need to explain it to you too.

As stated here, I consider it an advantage over other players, not an IC advantage. I have information my fellows do not have, thus putting me ahead of them, in a metaphorical sense.

My bad. Between notifications only really working when they feel like it, and over 140 pages of OOC, I must have missed this commend.

Birdsie didn't take the time to get this roleplay going just to ruin it by letting a player run around as unkillable.

 

[Xel]

My bad. Between notifications only really working when they feel like it, and over 140 pages of OOC, I must have missed this commend.

STUPID MONKEY GO HOME!

 

[hudhouse]

STUPID MONKEY GO HOME!

Leave my Servant alone you kelidioscopic simpleton!

 

[Godhowsae]

My bad. Between notifications only really working when they feel like it, and over 140 pages of OOC, I must have missed this commend.

STUPID MONKEY GO HOME!

 

[HTCOR]

Xel

It is a learning experience for me, with two lessons.

One of which is to trust the GM far more. The second is not lay down when someone does what you just did.

I bring up an issue I personally have in a PM. One of your responses is to air such a thing in OOC, which you've already declared to be exactly what not to do. Yes, I had an issue. It was illogical, and I understand that. You said to bring my issues to you?

What you do in response is to mock me in the PM, and call me an utter idiot by the remark of "That SHOULD be common sense."

And if you have an issue with me personally. Your words were "Regardless you can tell that person to come to me directly. Airing drama in OOC is absolutely not the right way to handle it."*

So there's a lesson for all involved. One is to trust the GM, which I'll attempt to do.

Yours is to follow the advice that you give to others.


Post Referenced by the *

Considering those examples are basically copy-pastes of what Dalamus said :/ Well regardless you can tell that person to come to me directly. Airing drama in OOC is absolutely not the right way to handle it.

 

[Xel]

Xel

It is a learning experience for me, with two lessons.

One of which is to trust the GM far more. The second is not lay down when someone does what you just did.

I bring up an issue I personally have in a PM. One of your responses is to air such a thing in OOC, which you've already declared to be exactly what not to do. Yes, I had an issue. It was illogical, and I understand that. You said to bring my issues to you?

What you do in response is to mock me in the PM, and call me an utter idiot by the remark of "That SHOULD be common sense."

And if you have an issue with me personally. Your words were "Regardless you can tell that person to come to me directly. Airing drama in OOC is absolutely not the right way to handle it."*

So there's a lesson for all involved. One is to trust the GM, which I'll attempt to do.

Yours is to follow the advice that you give to others.


Post Referenced by the *

Difference here is you had a specific issue with a specific player. My posts aren't about any one specific player (so you making it about you directly isn't something you should do) but was in response to the general feelings of several players as well as just an overarching issue that needs to be addressed roleplay wide.

Specific gripes between players need to be handled directly in PM. Issues that effect everyone in the RP need to obviously be done between everyone in the RP.