Viewpoint random but would you roleplay more diligently if you were paid to do so

[chaotic cat cutie]

Just a complete hypothetical. I see this on Roll20 pay to play. I'm wondering would people be more apt to being more diligent in their writing if they were paid to do so? Like a commissioned writer of sorts.

Just curious to see opinions and answers float around.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Unless the money was decent, no. I do this out of passion and love for my creations. But it drains me sometimes and I am left an empty husk. If you attach a dollar sign and I am now obligated to play for the pay, it would make rp feel like a job and take the joy out of it.

 

[chaotic cat cutie]

If people paid me to Gm. I will be completely honest. I would be more attentive and involved. The pay would make me feel like I'm working towards something rather than being a husk.
Though, this is my own experiences and feelings. I'm completely understanding many artists feel the same about commissions. So I've heard

 

[nerdy tangents]

I’m with Bacon unless your paying me enough to cover the bills and my health insurance than no.

I work full time so unless your going to offer me enough monetary compensation to be able to afford to go to part-time I’m basically just working two jobs.

And tbh the one I have already is draining enough, I don’t need a second one.

 

[BuggaBoo]

I'm wondering would people be more apt to being more diligent in their writing if they were paid to do so?

Hi!!

Is it like an acting gig or like a writing gig or even like a per post gig? Cuz i'd need to get lawyers to read the contract lol. Not signing on until we figure out the ownership of the posts, character and who's signing the cheque lol. Oh! and of course what the actual compensations are.

But to address the OP: k so like if its some kinda under the table gig then nah. RPers still ghost if they feel like it since they not obligated by anything other than like monetary comp. Unless this is a main income worthy gig and not just a non-signed contractual side hustle, then like yeah, peace out and TYSM for the cash sucker lol

 

[Idea]

Probably, assuming all else constant (so assuming things like, the same RPs not being paid specifically to participate in an RP I'm not interested in engaging without being paid). That being said I hardly think lack of diligence is a problem I have much of personally to begin with. I could certainly invest more time into roleplaying if I was being paid to do it, even if it was something I didn't like, but that wouldn't quite be diligence, moreso allocating some otherwise free time to a side gig.

 

[AaronMk]

Why are you trying to commodify people's hobbies? We don't need more hobbies that pay we need hobbies of pure joy. Reject the commodity form

 

[chaotic cat cutie]

Why are you trying to commodify people's hobbies? We don't need more hobbies that pay we need hobbies of pure joy. Reject the commodity form

I don't think it is the "me" commodifying hobbies. It's asking a genuine question. If you were commissioned to write a character would you? I mean you see this all over the place in all sorts of hobbies. Knitting, needlepoint, painting, digital art, poetry, essays, projects. It's a huge market. Especially with how the freelance world is right now. Anyone can publish their own thing .

I think it's a common theme people are uncomfortable with that because it would make the hobby feel too professional. Totally get that and I do know people who lost inspiration because they were commissioning their art. Which is relatable. I remember they would be really dragging their feet and unable to focus on their video's at times. I think this is a general theme. Don't make play work.

Although, I was just curious if anyone else would be like, this is a freelance writers dream

 

[davy]

I don't know if I could do this as a job. If I were writing posts for a few hours a day every day, and focused almost entirely on others' fun (which I think is how it'd be if writing for pay), it'd essentially be a different activity. The anticipation and daydreaming either wouldn't be there, or would look fairly different.

If I was just in my one game, getting paid doesn't seem like it'd be an obvious positive for my output and writing quality. It wouldn't be enough money to give me more time to devote to writing or anything like that. Cool stuff happening in the game and the other writers being excited makes a much bigger difference. Probably the biggest thing that increased the quantity and quality of my writing was when the group switched genres and the new character I made was finally a good fit - figuring out who I like to be in a group setting took a dang long time.

Knitting, needlepoint, painting, digital art, poetry, essays, projects. It's a huge market.

I get the sense it's much more of a buyer's market - that is, people have these skills from their hobbies and need money, so they try to get paid for it. You basically can't make a profit off of selling most yarn crafts online because so many people who knit and crochet for fun and to keep their hands busy are selling things for barely above the cost of materials. The digital artists I know either invest serious time in social media to get their name known, or only get the occasional commission from friends. I've never heard of someone getting more than a couple custom-commissioned written works in a year.

I could see possibly doing a different genre from the ones I write in for fun, as a job. But not the same games.

 

[AaronMk]

Yeah people who I've talked to who do a hobbyist craft have never ever said they earn anything on it. They are lucky if whatever they make subsidizes the costs they put into it.

Which, to be honest: should this be promoted as ideal? No. Not at all.

To make matters worse, putting something like this onto the market does not mean you are writing for yourself anymore, but writing for the buyer. And RP is a group hobby built around shared interest. Not sewing together haphazardly several fingers and bribing them with V-Buck to engage in a shared setting that they may not even be that invested in. Or to force them to re-evaluate the value of the hobby vs other things they would rather be doing, or should rather be doing rather than entertaining the ego of the game-master, who should ideally by keeping the overall story stimulating and encouraging people to hang around. In short basically: the GM does not buy friends

 

[nerdy tangents]

I think you hit on another key factor for me AaronMk .

The problem with monetizing writing is that you have completely changed the medium.

You aren’t asking for a roleplay at that point but rather a ghost writer for your own original fiction.

Because I am no longer really contributing to the story beyond filling in a word count and maybe fleshing out whatever outline the commissioner gives me.

I mean again I wouldn’t inherently have anything against doing that provided I was compensated fairly.

But it’s not a roleplay really.

 

[AaronMk]

I think it'd also help to establish perspective and ask what the ultimate rate of failure of a traditional in-person TTRPG campaign is. Because the ultimate reason may not be roleplaying as a whole is doomed. But traditionally you can just never complete a campaign or story because the whole premise is structured around availability and keeping the fire alive, and you can't keep it alive forever.

 

[chaotic cat cutie]

I'm still of the strong opinion that people would be much more active and diligent. I mean, not to pay for what RPN offers. No. That's going to be pretty lame. What I'm talking about is a revamped structure of accountability and growth. OF COURSE role playing is dying because there is no growth and nothing new happening. What if there was something immersive and community driven but also has accountability with a fee. Hey if I spend an amount of time like a full time job on something. I'd love to be paid for it and feel like I've got a purpose. An end goal.

Of course there would be structures put into place. Like, must finish a campaign upon pay. Must have a detailed schedule. Must have allotted times.

People people. I'm not talking about something like this and throwing a number on it.

For example, if you pay for school you going to it? You save up that money to attend those classes. I mean I did. Putting a price tag on something means accountability.
I don't see it as a negative.

Though, it's really interesting to see a lot of people heavily disagree. It's just super interesting to me. I suppose this is when I look into being a paid writer. This has driven me to look for some worth when it comes to my writing.


But totally respect people's opinions they are your own just not mine at all but sill intriguing and interesting to observe

 

[nerdy tangents]

So if you don’t mind me saying this chaotic cat cutie what exactly would you be working towards in this pay to play model. Because I’m getting the feeling the rest of us are talking about dogs and your trying to hype up cats.

So it’s not even that we’re disagreeing so much as we aren’t really understanding your question properly.

So if you could give a specific example of a pay to play pitch.

Like are you imagining people getting paid after they submit their posts (sort of free lance writer style where you are paid per word count) or are you expecting people to complete a roleplay and they get paid at the end?

Because that might help people give you some more specific feedback.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

I don't think it is the "me" commodifying hobbies. It's asking a genuine question. If you were commissioned to write a character would you? I mean you see this all over the place in all sorts of hobbies. Knitting, needlepoint, painting, digital art, poetry, essays, projects. It's a huge market. Especially with how the freelance world is right now. Anyone can publish their own thing .

I think it's a common theme people are uncomfortable with that because it would make the hobby feel too professional. Totally get that and I do know people who lost inspiration because they were commissioning their art. Which is relatable. I remember they would be really dragging their feet and unable to focus on their video's at times. I think this is a general theme. Don't make play work.

Although, I was just curious if anyone else would be like, this is a freelance writers dream

i agree with you, there's nothing wrong with making bread with your hobby. But the downside is it stops being a hobby after a certain point. Streamers probably get off camera and spend all night brain storming. Then they wake up 6 hours later, with slight sleep deprivation and begin content farming all over again. And that does a number on an individual. The reason why i brought up streaming is I saw my favorite league youtubers slowly crash out.

Rage and pettiness. Irritability. Not talking for entire games or interacting with chat. A few guys can do this, but many i saw on twitch were only fun for like 20 minutes a day. the rest was queueing up for a game they hated.

so that's why I would not mix rp with money personally, but would not blame anyone for doing that. It's definitely better to get paid toward retirement while having fun with something you love, but I am the type who prefers shoveling mud out of a hole in a construction site and going home to responses on rpn as a relief valve.

 

[chaotic cat cutie]

So if you don’t mind me saying this chaotic cat cutie what exactly would you be working towards in this pay to play model. Because I’m getting the feeling the rest of us are talking about dogs and your trying to hype up cats.

So it’s not even that we’re disagreeing so much as we aren’t really understanding your question properly.

So if you could give a specific example of a pay to play pitch.

Like are you imagining people getting paid after they submit their posts (sort of free lance writer style where you are paid per word count) or are you expecting people to complete a roleplay and they get paid at the end?

Because that might help people give you some more specific feedback.

Like it would be a set contract. Perhaps a monthly fee of 5 dollars with bonus features added. Character art comissioned from ethical artists or critic from experienced editors a window into a publishing world.

Something like that so its writing and roleplayomg with guided purpose

 

[nerdy tangents]

Exactly I think the problem is that what OP wants is just a different hobby to be honest.

I genuinely think what they’re looking for is more akin to ghost writing or maybe beta reading.

Where you are hired by someone to help them write a story. This can be as simple as just reading over their manuscript and checking for errors or loose story threads to something more elaborate where you are given a loose outline and it’s up to you to write the story yourself by a specific deadline.

That does exist to some extent although I’m not sure beta readers get paid so much as they’re just the friends of fanfic writers who help them with their projects.

But certainly that might be something to look into if your are looking to get paid to write and need a little incentive to keep moving on a project.

 

[chaotic cat cutie]

No I mean roleplaying just more

 

[nerdy tangents]

Like it would be a set contract. Perhaps a monthly fee of 5 dollars with bonus features added. Character art comissioned from ethical artists or critic from experienced editors a window into a publishing world.

Something like that so its writing and roleplayomg with guided purpose

Yeah I think what your imagining isn’t a roleplay but serialized writing.

So something a bit closer to a fanfic that had weekly chapter drops (or even an original story that drops a chapter per week).

In that case than yeah beta reading or ghost writing might be the way to go. I’m not sure if either is exactly this format (I haven’t beta reading since like 2000 so who knows what it looks like now).

But they feel like an easier fit to what your looking for. As what your proposing is just helping people with their personal writing projects,

Ex. I have a really cool idea for a murder mystery with witches but I can’t quiet nail down a plot. I have the setting and some character outlines but can’t figure out how to turn that into a three act structure. So I go to this website or project or wherever and I pay someone to help me come up with an outline.

Or maybe I have an outline but I need help coming up with specific characters to populate the world, same thing I pay someone to come up with some character outlines.

So again it’s not so much a roleplay as just a hub where people can pay for commissions to help them with their writing projects.

Put that way sure I can set aside some time to maybe read over a manuscript or help someone come up with a character concept. It honestly might be kind of fun.

 

[chaotic cat cutie]

Yeah I think what your imagining isn’t a roleplay but serialized writing.

So something a bit closer to a fanfic that had weekly chapter drops (or even an original story that drops a chapter per week).

In that case than yeah beta reading or ghost writing might be the way to go. I’m not sure if either is exactly this format (I haven’t beta reading since like 2000 so who knows what it looks like now).

But they feel like an easier fit to what your looking for. As what your proposing is just helping people with their personal writing projects,

Ex. I have a really cool idea for a murder mystery with witches but I can’t quiet nail down a plot. I have the setting and some character outlines but can’t figure out how to turn that into a three act structure. So I go to this website or project or wherever and I pay someone to help me come up with an outline.

Or maybe I have an outline but I need help coming up with specific characters to populate the world, same thing I pay someone to come up with some character outlines.

So again it’s not so much a roleplay as just a hub where people can pay for commissions to help them with their writing projects.

Put that way sure I can set aside some time to maybe read over a manuscript or help someone come up with a character concept. It honestly might be kind of fun.

But it is is roleplay because its not for one person its a joint experience .. Not a publish story... I think you are just confused

 

[Cogwork]

Exactly I think the problem is that what OP wants is just a different hobby to be honest.

I genuinely think what they’re looking for is more akin to ghost writing or maybe beta reading.

I think you're reading too much into it. I don't really see anything that OP has said that implies that they aren't talking about roleplaying.

 

[nerdy tangents]

But it is is roleplay because its not for one person its a joint experience .. Not a publish story... I think you are just confused

With all due respect I think I understand what is being proposed perfectly well. I am just giving you advice on how to achieve it in a realistic manner.

People are motivated to join roleplays because they actually enjoy socializing with their partner or because they like the “project” to use your term.

So like paying us isn’t going to make us more likely to post or participate because we are already motivated without any need to give us monetary incentives.

So that’s why I said your looking for collaborative writing. As your assumption is the pay in this scenario is what is incentivizing people to participate in the project.

But that is going to automatically change how they approach things. They aren’t going to be motivated by a love of the project or a desire to socialize with their friends but to fulfill whatever the guidelines of their particular commission is.

So it’s going to change the nature of the project simply by making it more money based.

 

[Idiot Doom Spiral]

I mean I've told people in the past "if only I could get paid (a living wage) to roleplay..." so yeah actually I would be more diligent in writing and perhaps motivated to GM. But that's not everyone. Depending on how many RPs people take on or their creative stamina, they may burn themselves out. Involving money means adding a layer of administration and higher stakes. Ghosting already burns bridges so I can't imagine how much more awful that would end up if the ghoster was already paid.

The only model I could see retaining the spirit of roleplay is having it operate much like a web series/podcast, or TTRPG campaign (e.g. Critical Role, Dimension 20) except instead of streams, you'd have serialized fiction. You could be a GM, a player, lore master, or some type of coordinator if you want to approach it like a small scale production.

 

[Daisie]

Just a complete hypothetical. I see this on Roll20 pay to play. I'm wondering would people be more apt to being more diligent in their writing if they were paid to do so? Like a commissioned writer of sorts.

Just curious to see opinions and answers float around.

Yup!

 

[Cutiefly]

Depends. If given enough money, sure! Although I will not be writing other people's ocs. Only my own. I only trust myself to write my own content and so forth. If there's no like "x you can't write like that" or requirements as such I'd do it regardless.