Over a Mug of Ale [For A Better Age]

Miashara said:
Archivist said:
Is he trying to attack the Varajtul horde within the fort as a unit?
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Pretty much that. I"m not entirely sure how to mechanically model it, which caused my confusion. Basically Asyk threw him into the horde, and he proceeded to use the momentum and burning jade weapon to massacre his way through.
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It strikes me as a bit ridiculous, and steps on the toes of the mass combat rules to attack and massacre a large group of opponents like that. So how about this? For the great stunt you get to knock them all prone due to you knocking them all down like bowling pins, and you get to use your attack against one of the Varajtul in the group (probably the apparent leader of this group of Varajtul)? This would be a miscellaneous action.
 
Seriously? None of you are stoked that Immanent Solar Glory is now available to every Caste and no longer requires an Excellency?
 
I've never had much of a reason to use it, given the only character I've ever made that it would be useful for is in a game with slow xp growth and I can't afford to use the xp that would go on charms essential for his rise to power to enhance his mote pool.


So, yeah.
 
ISG is like the first excellency. It's necessary but boring. The decision to tie it to war and bureaucracy was interesting, Performance a bit of a stretch, and Larceny struck me as down right peculiar. But still, ISG on the whole, meh.
 
Well they seem to have chosen to give access to each of the core classes, so when your choice is; Integrity, Presence, Performance, Resistance and Survival. And the charm specifies working with people inside a city and getting essence out of that... Well performance seems like best choice.


Then you get to, Athletics, Awareness, Dodge, Larceny and stealth. Which one requires working in a city around and with people?... Prince of thieves style Actions I guess.


And like you said, it's a good charm, but expanding your charm pool ins't quite like.. Doing something awesome and solarly.


I'm guessing it's going to be followed up by a Similar charm for, Lunars, Sidereals, and Dragon blooded coming along.
 
The Solar draws strength from the harmonious governance of Creation. The greater the social structure he commands, the more essence he may wield. This Charm allows the Solar to recover motes by tending to the affairs of a kingdom, organization or social or military unit he leads.[sic] Each hour spend inspiring the people or performing administrative tasks allows the Solar to recover motes equal to the unit's Magnitude.
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I really can't see any way stealing supports administrative tasks. In light of this the Performance specialty makes a lot of sense, as does Bureaucracy or War. But Larceny? Even if you were committing larceny on a grand scale, it would be more Presence, Bureaucracy, or maybe craft. Night caste is hard, don't get me wrong. Maybe Awareness if you were perceiving people in the unit you command. But I can't see larceny.


Moot point for this character though. Four Foot would just take the traditional Lore version.
 
Larceny is also disguises. To list but a few options:


-Sneaking around to get a better look of life amongst your populace


-Using your knowledge of larcenous thought to develop better laws and policing techniques (cudos to Tableface for that idea)


-Using it to infiltrate criminal syndicates and destroy them from within or otherwise turn them to your advantage.


-Controlling the flow of information by forging documents and generally greasing the wheels of bureaucracy.


Larceny has its uses.


Performance, meanwhile, has things like...


-Giving rousing speeches to the people, to your police force, to whomever.


-Putting on grandiose shows to improve city-wide morale.


-Writing pamphlets to emphasize how your government is the best government.


-Debating opponents in a Parliament.


There's plenty of uses if you're creative.
 
The far extreme of Larceny's use in society was present in the First Age, when the Solar Exalted had turned crime into just another of many social and economic balances.


On a simpler note, Larceny would be necessary for managing your guild of thieves, or your rings of spies.


Edit: And if you guys are disregarding ISG... you are really unfamiliar with where the system goes at higher tiers. It's like ignoring the vital utility of ox-body. It's all but essential for Eclipses and Twilights, or, hell, anyone who seriously practices sorcery.
 
Tableface: See post above:

Miashara said:
ISG is like the first excellency. It's necessary but boring.
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My lack of excitement isn't over utility. The 1st Ex is probably the most useful thing in the game and ISG is (edit) tied for second with Infinite Ability Mastery. It's that both ISG and the extensions of it are boring. Yay, extra motes. Useful, but not exciting. ISG says "Each hour spend inspiring the people or performing administrative tasks..." As I noted and Axelgear elaborated on, Performance fits in with that very well. It made a lot of sense on the second reading.


My problem with Larceny is that there is nothing in that ability that inspires people better than any other ability. That means they just picked some random ability and stuck a charm on the base of the tree. There's nothing inherently 'steally' about using Larceny to inspire people that isn't as inherently 'fighty' as using melee.


Axelgear, if you don't mind me using your examples,


-Sneaking around to get a better look of life amongst your populace (larceny)


-Sparring members of your military to get a better look at the life among our soldiers (melee)


-Using your knowledge of larcenous thought to develop better laws and policing techniques


-Using your knowledge of sword fighting to develop better fighting styles and combat formations


Please excuse me if I seem to be dumping on your examples. That isn't what I meant to do. They're good. But any ability can be used the same way. And a charm that can be applied to anything might as well be a new Excellency, Immanent [Ability] Glory.


Look, I'm not arguing that ISG isn't absolutely necessary, especially at high levels. But it's boring, and the Ink Monkey revision only means you can get it without picking up a speedbump charm along the way. There's nothing larceny-y about it. Inspiring people is pretty inherently what performance does, so that makes sense. Bureaucracy and War both basically _are_ administrating people. They fit. But if you loosen up 'inspiring' to let Larceny in, then really it needs to be Immanent [Ability] Glory.


On a ISG unrelated tangent:


Honestly, Body Ox does become useless, because your mote pool becomes your health track anyway. I'm sure you know the mechanics of grand weapon combat as well as I. Tell me, if our two (hypothetical) characters are fighting and we're high enough level that artifact 3+ weapons are the order of the day, would you rather have 15 health levels or five charms/50 xp? Assuming we're both solars, of course. If the choice was between Body-Ox and ISG, much as I'm not impressed with the latter, I couldn't deny it would be more effective.


Infernals have that great tanking build in the Malfeas tree, while Abyssals have one similar. Of course, Abyssals also get Soulsteel weapons, meaning if you're fighting one there's no reason not to perfect defense every attack. But to a Solar, the only real defense is not getting hit. Unless you're a twilight. Then all bets are off. Lunar's can rock the regen thing, and I suppose a Eclipse could plagiarize their techniques(But honestly, I don't really think that counts, because it isn't in the solar charm tree). Sidereals can get a high combat effectiveness out-of-the-gate with Violet Bier of Sorrows, but lack the extreme upper limit the rest get. This is tragic, because I like Sidereals more than anyone else based on pure style.


Edit: Let me be clear. Each purchase of body ox gives 3 hl right? A decent grand daiklave user does 12L + strength + magical material bonus+ bonus successes. Body Ox is only going to be effective when it hits, in which case it will probably do 18-30 dmg. At .4 per die, you get 7L to 12L on average. You need two to four purchases of Body ox _per hit_ of a grand daiklave to survive the damage, and you're still at -2 to everything. And that's just average damage. His max is 18 to 30, and if he hits the upper echelon of that, his weapon will splatter a fighty solar with 22hl, which is the default max possible.


Don't forget grand weapons are piercing, so Orichalcum Super Heavy Plate gives a soak of 9L/9B, which barely matters. Starmetal SHP gives 8L/8B, but a -1 to damage. Better, especially if you max the soak tree, but there again you're spending xp, lots of it, to get the guy down to ping with -1 external penalty provided raw damage is 32L or less. We're talking a total of eight charms here, or 64 xp plus combo points. If your adversary is essence 4, you'll still take a point of damage 60% of the time ISC doesn't perfect the damage. If he's essence 5 he'll probably do a point per turn. What I'm getting at here is you've spend 64+ xp on a battle strategy that will let you survive maybe twenty hits that get past ISC. This neglects the ST only knows how much time chasing down starmetal SHP, or 3 background slots and 4 BP. That's REALLY expensive, and does nothing to bump your DV. Meanwhile the mean, mean solar with the grand kill stick is swinging away with an acc of 25 or more after Infinite ability Mastery, and your base DV is 7 or 8. Sooner or later he's going to get lucky, blow your DV out of the water, and splatter you. He' bought 2 charms so far, 1st Melee Ex, and Infinite Melee Mastery, has a DV of 12+, and has all those equivalent points left.


This is not including touch effects like soulsteel or crippling charms which Body Ox provides little protection against. Meanwhile each purchase of a defensive charm will postpone that hit. ISG gives 3 1/3 invocations of Seven Shadow Evasion per ISG purchase, plus extra motes of stunting plus perfectly defending against an opponent's stunted attack, ie denying him motes. Heavenly Guardian Defense isn't quite as efficient, but similar.


Keep in mind that a combat optimized character is going to have Dodge or Melee, probably both, at 5 anyway. Resistance at 5 isn't nearly as necessary unless you've got Body Ox, meaning that charm also has the surcharge of upping Resistance. ISG vs Body Ox is just a random choice, of course, but any other charm that lets you avoid even 1 grand daiklave smack is similarly more useful. Melee or Dodge charms are even cheaper, of course, since ISG has a surcharge in either Lore or something else, as the matter gave rise to this thread.


What I mean by all that blathering on, is that 3hl are insignificant compared to decent high-end damage. For the cost of 40 or 50 xp you can build an extra combo and stuff some charms into it, buy sorcery and Benediction of Elemental Grace your weapons down a point of speed for no mote cost per use, bump a stat from 1 to 5, or buy 5 useful charms. That's not counting the other charms you need to buy to make Body Ox worthwhile.


Take glorious solar bow, 7SE, Leaping Dodge Method, and kite anyone who argues with your divine right.
 
Alright guys, we are moving to near the end of the current battle. The Valhal are retreating in good order, and the Varajtul are not in a good position to make a decent pursuit. Instead of taking the time playing however many ticks it takes to actually retreat into Icehold we could just go ahead and skip to the point where the Valhal and the party gets into the city in order to save some time.


The Exalted would next have to deal with the Valhal now in the city, and whatever other issues they next want to deal with. Anoke, Calypso, and Flicking Glass would likely start at the top of the city wall, Four Foot, Jorik, Bjarn, and the Fangs would start inside the city gate, and Asyk would likely be flying over the city or land whereever he desires.


How does this idea strike everyone?
 
I'm more partial to jumping ahead to everyone having already regrouped; no real need to go through descending from the wall to meet back up with the rest of the circle, since it's going to happen promptly. Besides, it gets us all together and is a good starting point for whatever they need to do next.
 
I’ve skipped ahead a bit with everyone now in Icehold. You guys are starting out in front of the city gates. Do as you will.
 
Psst, Xaantiaz:


wouldn't it be awesome if the characters all knew about a cult that worships them simply for what they are? Because it'd be p. coo'.
 
Tableface said:
Psst, Xaantiaz:
wouldn't it be awesome if the characters all knew about a cult that worships them simply for what they are? Because it'd be p. coo'.
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Huh? I don't think the Valhal worship us just yet (except for maybe Jade, but that doesn't make much of a cult).
 
Jade is their Shaman. Their spiritual guide. One step down the totem pole from their patron spirit. One-half of their leadership.


Follow now? It might be handy to let everyone in on how she exalts (teehee) them.
 
Just thought I would just confirm that I still monitoring things. Just waiting for for Flickering Glass to interact with Jade Eye, and then get back to everyone else in order to move on. That would seem to be the bottleneck at the moment.


If anyone has any questions about what is going on feel free to ask.
 
Miashara said:
Bjarn was going to check out the Fangs, and make sure they are okay. How are they doing?
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Besides a couple of wounded, most of the Fangs are doing quite well. The Varajtul did not manage to get a good attack on the Fangs before being beaten off.
 
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