Our man the Emissary

kakitashinsumi said:
Istari.
How did you find out that the Balrog and Tom Bombadil where doth Istari?


I knew Gandolf was, as are all the wizards (Sarumon and those not mentioned) and it I thought there were hints that Sauron was one too, but that could be misinterpertation.


BTW, which book discusses Nexus and the Emissary most?
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I find it annoyingly funny how you immediately attempted to correct my spelling of "ishtari" to "istari," and then proceeded to spell "both" as "doth," and more to the point:  "Gandalf" as "Gandolf" and "Saruman" as "Sarumon."
 
the Silmarillion (my spelling may be incorrect) explains that the Balrogs that Melkor (aka Morgoth) had under his control (and that Sauron later had as lackeys) began as Maia (or is the plural Maiar?) that were elementally aligned with fire (fire-spirits).   Sauron was, as well, a Maia that Melkor sweet talked and corrupted to his side.  Although it's hinted that Sauron was honestly going to return to the Valar's side after they crushed Morgoth and threw him into the void, but he ran away and hid instead of returning to Valinor to face Manwe's and the other Valars' judgement... and as such returned to Evil.


All of the wizards, the Istari: (called Wizards by men): Curunir, Saruman, Mithrandrir (aka Gandalf, and his true name being Olorin) and Radagast... like someone said, the others aren't named... all of those are, like the Balrogs and Sauron, Maiar.


Melkor/Morgoth was one of the Valar, created by Eru/Iluvatar/The One and makes Sauron look like a big pussy


Tom Bombadil... what, exactly, he is is never explained in either the Lord of the Rings trilogy or the Silmarillion (or the accompianing works in that book) and like someone said... it's strongly suggested that he was on earth before even the Valar.  I've heard some people speculate that he was one of the Valar, or perhaps a manifestation of Eru himself... I've also heard some suggest that Tom is simply one of the major players in the Silmarillion, I don't remember which one, though, perhaps Beren, returned to middle earth to live out his life with his lady-friend... personally I'd say either one of the Valar, a manifestation of Eru, or something else entirely that Tolkien never bothered to say.


I have a hard time agreeing that he's one the Maiar, though.  As far as any of the books suggest, no Maia is able to use the One Ring without becoming corrupted by it (save Sauron, but he's the creator and as such he doesn't count) no matter how and with what intent they use it to begin with... no matter what they do with it it will turn to evil and they, too, will become evil.  Even Gandalf, who's one of the more powerful among the Maiar on Middle Earth.  Saruman was even (basically) corrupted the the One and he never used it, saw it or touched it.  Just his desire for it was basically enough to get him.


Tom, though, is completely beyond the corruption power of the One Ring.  He's his own master, as it was said, the One Ring can never harm him... and yet from what the books tell, there's no Maia that could use the One without eventually succumbing to it's corruption.  That and the fact that it's all but blatantly stated that Tom was on Middle Earth before the Valar (I don't recall his exact words, but it was almost like he was there before it was even created properly) that suggest, to me, that Tom couldn't be one of the Maiar.  He's simply too powerful (and the absent-mindedness is no doubt just an act) to be anything but, at the very least, one of the Valar.


I like the idea more and more that he's a seperate creation of Eru, placed there to watch middle earth for the big guy... as Tom was there before or as it was created and he'll be there until or even after it's gone.[/img]
 
Seiraryu said:
Tom Bombadil was an Ishtari' date=' same as Gandalf, Saruman and the Balrog Gandalf battles with.[/quote']
They are Maiar a kind of demigod that serves the Valar.  The Istari was a group of wizards (Saruman, Radaghast, Gandalf and two blue wizards without names.
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HoD is correct... it's like how all square are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares... All Ishtari or Maiar, but not all Maiar are Ishtari.  The Ishtari are *only* the Wizards sent to Middle Earth by the Valar to contest the power of Sauron.  The Balrogs were Maia fire-spirits corrupted and taken in by Morgoth, well before the Ishtari came to Middle Earth.


Then there are the Orcs, which started out as Elves, but corrupted by Morgoth into something that basically goes against every idea that the Elves represent.


I'd personally like a little more specific information as to what happened to Ungoliant... and whether or not the last two Silmarils are capable of being discovered.


And for some reason it *just* occurred to me that Earth in the Tolkien mythos, started out as flat and only became round with Eru punished the Numenoreans for listening to Sauron and trying to wage war on Valinor... so from then on the Earth was round ("all paths bend") and no mortal could reach Valinor unless given permission, in which case they'd find that one straight path to the abode of the undying.  (kind of like the Sidereal charm that allows them to sail a boat to Yu-Shan)
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Well I believe it was stated by Tolkien himself, Bombadil is a mystery, there are still some mysteries in the land of wonder that is Middle Earth.
 
Ha, funny you should say that he could be a ghost.


In my campaign he is actually a First Age ghost of a Solar who ruled Hollow back in the day. When the usurpation took place he activated the cities defenses and essentially obliterated everything within it, including himself. He ended up in the underworld as a ghost and it took him a few centuries but he managed to find a way to reclaim what was his.


The council of entities is actually a collection of powerful beings that feed him the essence he needs to remain functional during even bright daylight hours in nexus. His mask is also an old artifact that removes much of the weaknesses of his ghostly condition. I haven't worked out his stats exactly but he is a first age being with a lot of nasty tricks.


I like to have him take a more active role in my campaigns and he is essentially the ultimate ruler: think Machiavelli meets Agent Smith. Coldly logical, brilliant in a twisted way, and completely monotone and emotionless. The council, in exchagne for their support, receives a cut of the taxes and profits as well as is privy to all sorts of indulgences and information as Nexus is the trade capital of the world. So far it's a good arrangement, but the emmisary wouldn't mind being rid of them one day :D .


That's about it.
 
I personally think hes the god of Anarchy, on the lam from Yu-Shan and living in Nexus to keep the place from getting "too" regulated. Basically the wild card in everyones plan something they simply cant control and can never fully prevent.
 
Viragos said:
I personally think hes the god of Anarchy, on the lam from Yu-Shan and living in Nexus to keep the place from getting "too" regulated. Basically the wild card in everyones plan something they simply cant control and can never fully prevent.
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But he's the main enforcer of all  of Nexus' laws.
 
witch serve to keep Nexus in one peice and thus further the madness


though i had always figured him to be a 2nd or 3rd circle demon there to keep a eye on things for the elbon dragon, and help esure demonic worship isnt illiage there, nor is the presence of the celestials too strong so that the yotzis could use nexus as their breaking point (because we all know that they think they will get out one day)
 
Laws? In Nexus???!!! Nexus doesnt have laws man, it has some "dont do stupid shit if you want to keep breathing" guidelines but thats about it, and I can see even an Anarchist wanting to keep his main source of income from being burned to the ground by idiots.
 
seeing as elemister has in a short story where he took the bard of shadowdale (i cant rember her name right now) to a fair he called down part of the sun....


my money would be on elemister.....


whupping the US so much hed make him have stains on his underwere
 
Viragos said:
it has some "dont do stupid shit if you want to keep breathing" guidelines but thats about it....
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that's a law or a rule or whatever you want to call it. To an outsider it may look like anarachy but it has patterns and rules of behavior hence it's not an anarchy. The Emissary might be an anrachy god but only if he's slacking off on the job. Not impossible considering the current state of the Celestial Bureaucracy.


Spoiler for A Day as Dark as Night


I personally see him a thrid circle demon or maybe an infernal/akuma who gained his freedom again. When The Emissary faces  Jacint in ADaDaN Jacint says " Your once master speaks of you often" After they traded comments The Emissary removed his mask and green and purple energy exploded from his mask. The power banished Jacnit back to Malfeas and change his nature. Jacint could no longer exist in both Malfeas and in creation. What the fuck has the power to something like this to a thrid circle demon?
 
apeman321 said:
I personally see him a thrid circle demon or maybe an infernal/akuma who gained his freedom again. When The Emissary faces  Jacint in ADaDaN Jacint says " Your once master speaks of you often" After they traded comments The Emissary removed his mask and green and purple energy exploded from his mask. The power banished Jacnit back to Malfeas and change his nature. Jacint could no longer exist in both Malfeas and in creation. What the fuck has the power to something like this to a thrid circle demon?
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 A minor Primordial, if such a thing exists? Not powerful enough to have been targeted for elimination during the War, but fled to avoid the fate of its masters, emerging only (relatively) recently in disguise.


 A powerful god who lost out on a power struggle with the to-be-Incarna? Just because the seven (not counting Gaia) are the only ones we know of doesn't mean that they were necessarily the only major gods who hatched the conspiracy to take down the Primordials. It's amazing how victory divides the victorious side...


 A ghost with Deathlord-like powers could theoretically take out Jacint as described, but the game mechanics get a  bit pushed there.
 
apeman321 said:
I personally see him a thrid circle demon or maybe an infernal/akuma who gained his freedom again. When The Emissary faces  Jacint in ADaDaN Jacint says " Your once master speaks of you often" After they traded comments The Emissary removed his mask and green and purple energy exploded from his mask. The power banished Jacnit back to Malfeas and change his nature. Jacint could no longer exist in both Malfeas and in creation. What the fuck has the power to something like this to a thrid circle demon?
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A minor Primordial, if such a thing exists? Not powerful enough to have been targeted for elimination during the War, but fled to avoid the fate of its masters, emerging only (relatively) recently in disguise.


A powerful god who lost out on a power struggle with the to-be-Incarna? Just because the seven (not counting Gaia) are the only ones we know of doesn't mean that they were necessarily the only major gods who hatched the conspiracy to take down the Primordials. It's amazing how victory divides the victorious side...


A ghost with Deathlord-like powers could theoretically take out Jacint as described, but the game mechanics get a  bit pushed there.
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I'm with apeman on this one. There's a couple of things more in ADaDaN that hint at the Emissary having a demonic nature (such as the way he banishes Jacinth by 'releasing an aspect of himself that hadn't been seen in Creation until then', and the way he himself is diminished afterwards).
 
the guy that usually runs my games thinks he's either a corrupt first age solar somehow spared himself from the usurpation, or a disease spirit who waxed greatly during the contagion and settled to the petri jar of diseases that is Hollow/Nexus in order not to lose power after it passed. latter sounds more probable to me, as the place is disgustingly and ever filthy, and the city government seems to put some subtle effort to keep it so.
 
Surely a first age solar would be able to do that to a 3rd circle?  I mean, they were pretty much the solar's whipping boys back in the first age, right?


I realise there's not a LOT of solars knocking about, but the emissary seems potent enough to fit the bill.
 
IS there a council?  Have we ever seen them in print?  I don't know myself?  If we've not got any proof for them, couldn't the council be a scapegoat for him?  Like no-one's going to try and kill HIM because he's very powerful and, he's not giving the orders, after all :P
 
Kajata said:
IS there a council?  Have we ever seen them in print?
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Yes, in Scavenger Sons, I beleive. Their names give many of them a very Solar feel, and the arrived in Nexus at just about the time the Jade Prison was destroyed.


I think it's plausible, and even likely, that the Council are (at least in part) a group of Solars who summoned a 3rd Circle demon to be their figurehead/enforcer in Nexus.


-S
 
Stillborn said:
Kajata said:
IS there a council?  Have we ever seen them in print?
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Yes, in Scavenger Sons, I beleive. Their names give many of them a very Solar feel, and the arrived in Nexus at just about the time the Jade Prison was destroyed.


I think it's plausible, and even likely, that the Council are (at least in part) a group of Solars who summoned a 3rd Circle demon to be their figurehead/enforcer in Nexus.


-S
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That sounds entirely possible to me. I mean hollow is a place of great strategical importance and any circle would like easy access to the tombs, the anchorstone etc.
 
I think at least one of the councilors is a Sidereal... I think it's in Scavanger Sons that there's the letter written by one of the people working with the Council to a sister or friend that mentions a number, if not all, of the council members and it specifically mentions something along the lines of either stars in the eyes of one of the council members or one of the colours associated with one of the maidens.


of course, I could be wrong and remembering the letter incorrectly.  I'll try to look at it again when I get back from class and research later this evening.
 
Heres a possibility, albeit remote as hell, he's a deathlord who's severed his connection to the malfeans, enough that he can at least avoid being dragged back to the pit.
 
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