Other types of Abyssals

[Sherwood]

In the 2e Abyssal book, there is a comment that the Neverborn could make more Deathlords by imbuing a ghost with a chunk of their power.  It also makes the statement that it does not have to be a Solar ghost, but a Lunar one would work.  So, given the time to whip up a Monstrance of Celestial Portion for a Lunar, what changes would come about?  Would the new LunarAbyssal be able to learn Arcanoi?  Would they have the same basic Charm sets, but with a new special effect to show the necrotic slant?

 

[Flagg]

While they hint a Lunar could become a Deathlord, they can't canonically become Abyssals.

 

[cyl]

Yup, nothing said about a lunar abyssal.


Could be an awesome idea though, young lunars trapped into the claws of a deathlord are quite sure to be broken.


But given it is the Yozis that gave the knowledge of the MoCP to the Neverborn, I guess they didn't give away all the designs in order to build other MoCP for other types of exalt... that is, IF they ever had a chance to design other types.

 

[Sherwood]

Well, why didn't the Deathlords do some research and build one?  A Lunar Exalt is a powerful ally or a potent enemy.  Why not harness their power?  Since the Deathlords are ghosts of First Age Solars, they are uniquely qualified to know just what a potent Lunar can do.

 

[Decurion]

Yup, nothing said about a lunar abyssal.
Could be an awesome idea though, young lunars trapped into the claws of a deathlord are quite sure to be broken.

Yeah, with another complication as well.  Since the tattoos are a post-Usurpation development, which means that the risk of chimerism is somewhere between "really fraggin high" and "a sure thing".


I'd have to be one incredibly confident Deathlord to try and keep a chimera on a leash, whether it's shard is tainted by the Abyss or not.


How's that for a scary critter. . .

 

[Quchu]

Nephilpal once mentioned that there are no Neverborn-tainted Lunar because Lunars are champions of the life force and couldn't possibly be aligned to the death Essence of the Oblivion...


But I think that's before Lunars became like gewd at necromancy, so uh. o_o

 

[Smeggedoff]

I remember discussing this on the official exalted forums. the general consensus was that the equivalent of the wyld where the deathlords live is the void, so an abyssal lunar would be the embodiment of the void and implode upon corruption.


I came up with the solution for this problem, attatching form fixing tattoos to the Lunar's bones pre corruption, of course this would be really painful for thel unar, but really, who cares?

 

[Fruan]

Another point to consider is that the Lunar essences aren't all caged up in one place where many of them can be grabbed. This will mean that baring fantastical plot twists, any abyssal lunars will have to be constructed one by one, requiring a much higher initial investment of R&D on expected returns - Abyssal lunars just aren't as profitable

 

[Smeggedoff]

oh those wacky deathlords and their profit margins


stupid yuppie neverborn

 

[magnificentmomo]

The Soulsteel Tattoos on the bones would be really cool, but would Moonsilver tattoos prevent it?


Also would you moan groan and facepalm if your ST introduced a Void Lunar?


What kind of powers would they have? There are a lot of considerations when trying to decide on what their powers would be. How would you explain them retains the ability to change shape? Are we splitting hairs in saying that necrotic Lunars would be avatars of the Void while classic Abyssals are avatars of Oblivion?

 

[nero1]

I don't think there will ever be Lunar Abyssals


I see different theological problems to Lunar Abyssals: first they are the anti-thesis to the power supporting the Deathlord, as someone already noted. It would be like having Abyssal Fair Folk. This does not imply Lunars could not decide to work for a Deathlord for reason of their own. Apart from this, Abyssals are created with an Exaltation which has been trapped into the Monstrances. Lunar Exaltation does not work in the same way so I don't see how could technically exist Lunar Abyssals. The only possibility would be to slam a Lunar in the Monstrance and break him/her, but in this case I think that the sheer Lunar energy of the Exaltation would backfire on the Deathlord and pretty probably cause major complication in the Underworld.


Thinking about it: the attempt of a Deathlord (say the Silver Prince or Eye and Seven Despair) to break a Lunar and create a Lunar Abyssal, and the countereffects of the attempt would be a very neat story hook.


Different issue for Lunar Deathlord: this could be something real, since the Neverborn corrupted the ghosts of the Solars and could as well corrupt and imbue power into the ghost of a Lunar or whatever other Exalt.


ciao

 

[Dracogryff]

I remember discussing this on the official exalted forums. the general consensus was that the equivalent of the wyld where the deathlords live is the void, so an abyssal lunar would be the embodiment of the void and implode upon corruption.
I came up with the solution for this problem, attatching form fixing tattoos to the Lunar's bones pre corruption, of course this would be really painful for thel unar, but really, who cares?

I remember discussing it on this forum, even. *chuckles* I do rather like the Muzzle that emerged from that discussion, though...


But, fun times.

 

[Vanman]

Well, why didn't the Deathlords do some research and build one?  A Lunar Exalt is a powerful ally or a potent enemy.  Why not harness their power?

Because the Deathlords didn't do the research to make the original Abyssal Exalted. That tech was given to them by their masters, who got it from the Yozis. I don't think it's as easy as "Hey! I think I'll make a Lunar Abyssal. Boys, to the lab!" They got the research from the Yozis. And the Yozis only told them about the Solar shards. Not the Lunar ones. There were no Lunar shards in the Jade Prison so they had no access to Lunar shards. Now, they could always try and break a Lunar to get that Lunar to work for them, but that's not the same thing as making an Abyssal Lunar.....

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

All the arguments against "abyssal" Lunars seem a bit fabricated to me:


Point 1. Lunars are too life orientated to be death corrupted.


Answer 1. The themes behind Lunars are stewardship and change, not "life".


Point 2. Deathlords dont have a supply of Lunar souls to corrupt.


Answer 2. If they can get existing Solars to defect and become Abyssals, there is no reason they couldnt do the same with a Lunar.


Point 3. Deathlords dont know how to make Monstrances.


Answer 3. They can make new Monstrances for defected Solars, so a properly motivated Deathlord could probably figure out how to make one for a different but less powerful celestial soul.


Point 4. Risk of chimerism.


Answer 4. Since all the Lunars are likely to be defectors, they probably already have their tattoos.


Point 5. Wyld = Void, Lunars would be champions of the Void and implode.


Answer 5. Since Abyssals, champions of Oblivion dont just cease to exist, this theory seems weak.


Did I miss anything? While I wouldnt try to argue for them existing canonically, I certainly think that if a ST wanted to have them, they could, without any real argument not to.

 

[Chaka]

The Void Lunar imploding upon Exaltation was the nicest possible outcome. The other one was that if a Lunar treated the Void the same way they treated the Wyld, they'd become a ravenous piece of sentient oblivion, formless and utterly destructive to all it touched.


I like that interpetation best.

 

[Smeggedoff]

Point 5. Wyld = Void, Lunars would be champions of the Void and implode.


Answer 5. Since Abyssals, champions of Oblivion dont just cease to exist, this theory seems weak.

the discussion where this came up wasn't really a "you can't do this because of this" it was more if a "would this happen?"


followed by ways to get around it if it did

 

[Quchu]

I think a Labyrinthine Chimera would work better than an Abyssal Lunar. A literal hybrid between life and death in their rarefied forms, or something like that. You don't have to go about researching how a Lunar Exaltation works this way anyways.

 

[wordman]

An article about "dark lunars", called Nihilic Exalted has been posted to the wiki recently. I'm also still working on my "dark terrestrial" idea: wraiths.

 

[Beowulf89]

I'd do it as a one-off experiment that went horribly wrong. I'll wait for you to pick out the appropriately dramatic music to play to that sentence...


Done? Good.


Okay, I'd give the Voided Lunar the power to devour anything. Motes, willpower, virtues, abilities, attributes, movement, attunement, artifacts, castles, whatever, looking a little like Miroku's cursed hand, just kinda sucking things down. The Deathlord creates it as his failsafe weapon, completed just before the heroes arrive. Deathlord gets devoured by Voided Lunar. Voided Lunar devours monstrance, nearby extras, etc.


In terms of charm effects, it gets a reflexive diceless disarm against any attack, said disarmed weapon disappears into elsewhere until the Voided Lunar dies. It also gets its full defense against ranged attack regardless of any penalties. Besides that, if it clinches anything it can devour its target over the course of essence(or stamina, defender's choice) ticks. Maybe give it the ability to disgorge whatever it has devoured.

 

[Haku1]

Wouldn't Gluttony From Full Metal Alchemist (Manga and not Anime) work?

Spoiler

And what does the stomach leads to? The Labyrinth. http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/51/02/

 

[Beowulf89]

Yes, and awesome.


With Envy and Pride as Chimera allies, Wrath, Greed and Father are Solars, Lust is a Sidereal, Sloth is a Lunar.


With the poor Alchemists in the series acting as Thaumaturges. Only a select few have journeyed through the Wyld to become Essence users. Philosopher Stones are a Solar's answer to having no Hearthstones. On the other hand, all Artifacts appear to be made out of Yellow Jade, so at least getting a limb replaced won't kill you.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

With Envy and Pride as Chimera allies, Wrath, Greed and Father are Solars, Lust is a Sidereal, Sloth is a Lunar.

I don't much about the series, but I would think Pride would be Solars.

 

[Beowulf89]

Manga Homunculi =/= Anime Homunculi. Anime Pride is Manga Wrath, the Anime decided to finish the story on its own. Which explains some of the crazier stuff you see during the series.

 

[Arthur]

Dark Lunars are just as likely of destroying the Deathlords as the Abyssals are. I can't see why they would present a particularly big threat to the DLs, unless they were exaggeratedly powerful.

 

[Flagg]

I for one am glad that Abyssals can only be made from Solars.


I think some people's tendency to try to combine every archetype in an RPG setting is a disease that needs to be kept in check.


"I'm an Embraced Garou Mummy with an Awakened Avatar!"


Please.