Other types of Abyssals

[Sherwood]

While I agree with Flag about combining some character classes is just a rules rape, I have long thought that the underworld would draw not just disinfranchised Solars, but Dragon-Blooded and Lunars. In my game, I have Outcaste DBs serving various DLs, but the point-blank comment in the book about the Neverborn being able to make a DL out of a Lunar's ghost seemed to be on point of a Abyssal-aspect Lunar. Possibly a Lunar running into a old Solar mate that has gone to the Dark Side, and feels compelled to follow. With the shifting powers of a Lunar, I can see a DL drooling over the chance to experiment on one to shift it to the necrotic power of the underworld. I grant that it would not be common, and any such creature would be on the Silver Pact's list of Public Enemy number One. But, I still see it as a possibility.

 

[Smeggedoff]

I for one am glad that Abyssals can only be made from Solars.
I think some people's tendency to try to combine every archetype in an RPG setting is a disease that needs to be kept in check.


"I'm an Embraced Garou Mummy with an Awakened Avatar!"


Please.

Sure, Drag Sam Hain back into this

 

[Quchu]

I for one am glad that Abyssals can only be made from Solars.
I think some people's tendency to try to combine every archetype in an RPG setting is a disease that needs to be kept in check.


"I'm an Embraced Garou Mummy with an Awakened Avatar!"


Please.

Sure, Drag Sam Hain back into this

"I'm a Ghost-blooded Lunar Akuma with Graces!"

 

[Chaka]

Theoretically possible, if Lunars can still learn Fair Folk charms.


Blargh.

 

[Arthur]

Sure, Drag Sam Hain back into this

Isn't that a character from the Ascension Warrior trilogy?


He was just a mage, IIRC.

 

[Smeggedoff]

My mistake, I meant sam Haight of Course

Samuel Haight, former Kinfolk, former ghoul, former Skin Dancer, former Mage, currently an ashtray somewhere in Stygia.


Samuel Haight was an early WoD character, Kinfolk to the Children of Gaia who was haunted by his failure to Change. Setting out on his own, Haight learned about the power of Kindred blood and became an independent ghoul. After some time, he advanced from piddling ghoul to piddling sorcerer, mastering enough Hedge Magic to create a ritual that, with the aid of five Garou skins, would turn him into a werewolf.


After becoming a powerfully Wyrm-tainted kinfolk-werewolf-independent-ghoul-hybrid, Haight acquired a magical artifact that provided him with an Arete rating.


Haight became, for all intents and purposes, a Mage. He attacked the Crombeys (branch of the Verbena) and stole a magic pumpkin branch, and then proceeded to Mexico City to take on the Baali Antediluvian.


Although, it wasn't an Antedeluvian, but only a Methuselah, Haight did not survive the encounter.


Haight found himself in the Shadowlands, and according to the Book of Legions, was soulforged into an ornamental ashtray on a minor Hierarchy functionary's desk, never to be seen again.


At least until Mage: Judgment Day, by Bruce Baugh. In one small scene in the book, one of the characters is buffeted by detritus from the Underworld. One of the items is — you guessed it — an ashtray.

 

[cyl]

And that's why I don't do drugs, they eat your brains ! :lol:

 

[Smeggedoff]

real men do crowbars!

 

[Persell]

Would the Lunar link to change bar them from becoming champions the the static unchanging void and or oblivion? Lunars are dynamic, the underworld in static.


Solars are representative of perfection so the static death taint actually goes WITH the theme. Whats more perfect the Oblivion?

 

[Joy in Ashes]

the labyrinth can warp and mutate as readily as the wyld. I don't remember if it just affects ghosts or others are subject to those effects. Also, 1st Ed. Fair Folk could assume shapes natural to the underworld, maybe lunars can as well.

 

[Jukashi]

This has come up before. Some things I may add:


1) Lunars don't really need to be Abyssalized, they have plenty of Abyssal-like effects already. Lunars can regain motes from RIP AND TEAR, kill all manner of beasts and men to eat their hearts and wear their skin, drink blood, turn their own flesh and bones into tools, and have huge claws and spikes sticking out all over. There's not really anything an Abyssal Lunar could do that they can't already.


2) Who says even the Yozis know how to corrupt anything but Solar shards? They have a backdoor to understanding how the Solar shards work: the powers of the Solars are based partly on the powers of the Lintha, who are the children of Kimberry, who is there on hand to say "Oh, I know what this bit does" and work from there. There's no such clues to help them understand Lunars or Sidereals.


3) Abyssals have themes of imprisonment, slavery and certain, inescapable doom. Lunars, even moreso than Solars, have the power to get out of dodge. When you stick a Solar in a monstrance he's stuck; when you stick a Lunar in a monstrance, he turns into a cricket and pops out.

 

[Sherwood]

To reply to a few of your points:


2: The Primordials created the whole world and the gods to run it for them. It was a Primordial that created the Exalted; so they have the ability to work on them. Also, it states that they can make a Deathlord out of the Lunar shards, so they have the ability to infuse great power into a ghost. So, why not?


3: to say that a Yozi cannot make a Monstrance that can hold a Lunar in any form is kinda silly.

 

[Flagg]

2: The Primordials created the whole world and the gods to run it for them. It was a Primordial that created the Exalted; so they have the ability to work on them.

Well, that depends. As a corollary to "Can God make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?", we can ask "Can the Yozi make a foe so mighty they can't defeat it?"


The answer here is obviously yes.

 

[Sherwood]

The Primordials obviously didn't see the exalted as a threat until it was too late. otherwise, they would have squished them like bugs.

 

[Quchu]

I think the third point was an argument in concept rather than actual practice. >_>


Though, I kinda dabbled with this deathy Lunar concept before, and I think the best you could mange is Labyrinth-aligned Chimerae. There wouldn't be that much aesthetic or thematic change since, as many people have pointed out, Lunars can be pretty deathy. But well, they could get certain specialty knacks, such as the ability to assume the forms of ghosts, Plasmids, spectres and hekatonkhires, and a heavier focus on the act of predation.

 

[Flagg]

My point is that the fact that the Yozi created everything doesn't mean they know everything or can control everything.

 

[Sherwood]

Ok. I can give you that.

 

[Jukashi]

2: The Primordials created the whole world and the gods to run it for them. It was a Primordial that created the Exalted; so they have the ability to work on them. Also, it states that they can make a Deathlord out of the Lunar shards, so they have the ability to infuse great power into a ghost. So, why not?

Deathlords are made from ghosts, not shards. And ghosts, dead human souls, though they may be enlightened by previous exaltation, are piss-easy compared to imperishable Auto-made Exalted shards. Which brings me to my next point, that it was Autocthon who made the shards. He was able to make them because he was the Great Maker, not because he's a primordial.


Think of it this way: Cars. Most humans, with only a little knowledge, can redecorate their cars, even add sound systems or tweak the breaks, and with some training can drive them. But only a qualified mechanic can actually build a car, and without that knowledge any other human - despite the amazing powers they may have to, say, build houses or bend dogs to their will - will have no idea how to make it go faster or turn sharper than it's designed to.


The other primordials - particularly in their lessened form as the Yozis or Neverborn - do not necessarily have the ability to toy with shardss very freely, particularly since Exaltation was explicitly designed by the craftiest of their number to be something they couldn't mess with.