[OOC] The Wall [Clashing Waves]

[saganite]

Only the best jackasses, you mean. :twisted:

Sure, if that's what it takes to be the best.... >.>


But then again, I think the Realm DBs actually best them in that category . For once .

 

[The Scorp]

LOL

 

[Haku1]

Make up your mind... are you the best at everything? Which would include being the best jackasses and bastards, or not?


If not... then that means you're not the best at everything.. and if you're not... who knows what else you're not best at. 8)

 

[The Scorp]

lol!


Well there are exceptions y'know...

 

[Arthur]

Make up your mind... are you the best at everything? Which would include being the best jackasses and bastards, or not?
If not... then that means you're not the best at everything.. and if you're not... who knows what else you're not best at. 8)

First option.

 

[Lord Ben]

No I'm not. I can center it where I want, its got a 20 yard diameter. So I could simply center it more than 10 yards away from me and voila. The book never said anything about targeting specific people or needing to have line of sight, just that it targets an area of 20 yards in diameter of up to 100 yards from the caster.

However, you do still do suffer internal penalties for targetting something you can't see. And the target might possibly get cover if you guess wrong also.


What's the necromancers DV and soak?

 

[saganite]

However, you do still do suffer internal penalties for targetting something you can't see. And the target might possibly get cover if you guess wrong also.
What's the necromancers DV and soak?

I would have to disagree. None of the rolls associated with this spell have anything to do with targeting. The only targeting that you ever do is determining where you want to center the blast, with which there is no rolling associated. The Int + Occult roll afterwards determines the overall strength and effectiveness of the actual blast, not accuracy. Remember, the attack is undodgeable and unparryable. If you still doubt me, go read the Spell's text in The White Treatise, on page 66.

 

[Lord Ben]

It's all up to the ST whether or not internal penalties apply in individual cases. In my game we've always applied them to sorcery rolls.

 

[The Scorp]

Then you'd be house ruling my friend. I believe there are no such ruling on targeting...you just roll to cast and for desired effects. Thats it.

 

[saganite]

It's all up to the ST whether or not internal penalties apply in individual cases. In my game we've always applied them to sorcery rolls.

I'd agree with you entirely if this attack actually targeted people. However, it targets a stationary point decided by the caster. You can't single out individual targets, it affects everything within that area.

 

[Lord Ben]

It's not a house rule. It's just that internal and environmental penalties are fairly fluid and not hard and fast rules. IE, it doesn't specifically say that composing poetry in a windstorm gives an internal penalty or not, but ruling one way or the other isn't a houserule.

 

[Lord Ben]

It's all up to the ST whether or not internal penalties apply in individual cases. In my game we've always applied them to sorcery rolls.

I'd agree with you entirely if this attack actually targeted people. However, it targets a stationary point decided by the caster. You can't single out individual targets, it affects everything within that area.

Either way really, Tome can do what he wants. IMG I wouldn't even allow it on a target you can't see. I really don't feel like getting into an argument over when to apply penalties that are a DM's call though. We use it in our game and I thought it was a hard rule. After you questioned it I looked in the book and it's largely up to the DM when to apply them.

 

[saganite]

Either way really' date=' Tome can do what he wants. IMG I wouldn't even allow it on a target you can't see. I really don't feel like getting into an argument over when to apply penalties that are a [b']ST[/b]'s call though. We use it in our game and I thought it was a hard rule. After you questioned it I looked in the book and it's largely up to the ST when to apply them.

Edited for correctness .


It is moot, you are right. However, I suppose I agree with you in some way. Targeting an area that you cannot see shouldn't be allowed, yes. You have to center the spell on a point that you can see. Beyond that, though, the spell itself just hurts whomever was in that targeted area, just as described in the text.


It makes perfect sense to me. Its exactly what that Necromancer did to us.

 

[Lord Ben]

Whatever... ST, DM, GM, or even Director (WEG Star Wars).


I do look forward to 4th edition D&D though. White Wolf makes great games, but they're really lazy when it comes to writing in hard rules and putting out errata.

 

[The Scorp]

I 2nd that!

 

[saganite]

I left DnD long ago. I tried coming back to it, and it was like going from paradise to the streets. >.<


Whether or not WW is lazy about hard rules (this is why the WW gaming community is a wonderful thing, plus the writers of the books are really cool with you contacting them about rules and such) is not what I care about. It'd be nice to have that, but I'd far rather have a system that promotes artful roleplaying. >.>

 

[Lord Ben]

It annoys me to no end that WW can't even put out a PDF sometime in the last 6 months for the Lunar book with a list of errors and errata. I know it's on web forums and the wiki, etc. But freaking put a PDF on the main page so players have an official answer, cripes. It'd take a guy like one day max to do that. Have some low level goon send a Q&A email to the guy that wrote it asking for clarifications and then put the answers in PDF after maybe cleaning them up a bit.


For WotC as much as their product is uninspired in some areas if you send a good brief question to a developer he'll respond to your email in some fashion if the question is decent. "How does Halting the Scarlet Flow work with DBT" isn't exactly a rocket science type question yet there are two official versions from what I understand.

 

[Lord Ben]

I can promote RP all by myself. I pay them money to make up a rules system is always my way of looking at it.

 

[saganite]

It annoys me to no end that WW can't even put out a PDF sometime in the last 6 months for the Lunar book with a list of errors and errata. I know it's on web forums and the wiki' date=' etc. But freaking put a PDF on the main page so players have an official answer, cripes. It'd take a guy like one day max to do that. Have some low level goon send a Q&A email to the guy that wrote it asking for clarifications and then put the answers in PDF after maybe cleaning them up a bit.[/quote']
I totally agree, there is no excuse for this, save for that they probably don't have enough time and/or people for these sorts of things. Its just too low on the priority list, especially when their company handles so many different products. But I know your rage :x .

For WotC as much as their product is uninspired in some areas if you send a good brief question to a developer he'll respond to your email in some fashion if the question is decent. "How does Halting the Scarlet Flow work with DBT" isn't exactly a rocket science type question yet there are two official versions from what I understand.

Yes, I believe there are. In these sorts of situations, I suppose its best left to the judgement of the ST and players of the game in question as to which version. But for the most part the system works.

I can promote RP all by myself. I pay them money to make up a rules system is always my way of looking at it.

You can, yes. I believe, that with effort, any D20 system can be as deep as any WW system. However, I think that DnD fundamentally breeds a lack of depth or true roleplaying through its simplicity, in both rules application and general setting detail. For the most part, one can expect a lot of WW games to involve some heavy material from the get-go, unless an ST chooses to disregard such. You don't get that with DnD, unfortunately.

 

[Lord Ben]

At Gencon all the developers for 4th edition made themselves available to answer a load of questions, they sat down for interviews with fan pages, have video on Youtube with the interviews, gave speeches, etc. I don't see WW doing that really. And WotC I think hires professional editors whereas WW seems to do it themselves. The products are decent, but from a publishing standpoint they're very sloppy. However WotC can have a prestige class with a one paragraph description of the organization and 3 pages of mechanics. The opposite for WW.


WW says stuff like the Lunar awareness charm: "this charm allows you to become aware of the attack and allows you to apply your DV and charms to the defense" When what they really mean is "This charm removes the unexpected keyword from an attack, allowing you to apply your DV as normal. If in a combo, you can also activate additional charms as if it were expected."

 

[saganite]

At Gencon all the developers for 4th edition made themselves available to answer a load of questions, they sat down for interviews with fan pages, have video on Youtube with the interviews, gave speeches, etc. I don't see WW doing that really. And WotC I think hires professional editors whereas WW seems to do it themselves. The products are decent, but from a publishing standpoint they're very sloppy. However WotC can have a prestige class with a one paragraph description of the organization and 3 pages of mechanics. The opposite for WW.
WW says stuff like the Lunar awareness charm: "this charm allows you to become aware of the attack and allows you to apply your DV and charms to the defense" When what they really mean is "This charm removes the unexpected keyword from an attack, allowing you to apply your DV as normal. If in a combo, you can also activate additional charms as if it were expected."

Agreed, 100%. I sometimes truly wonder about the quality of writers that WW employs. Though remember, WotC has the kinds of funding available for that stuff. It's parent company is Hasbro, and if my memory serves me right that means they have more than enough money to play around with .


Plus, you can't discount the fact that WotC has been around for ages now as compared to WW. >.>

 

[Lord Ben]

I think the Hasbro part is what makes sure they hire professional editors and product managers who oversee the publishing and other things. They have to be profitable even if Hasbro has billions. WW has money too, but I don't know who runs them or how competent (business wise)they are really.


From what I understand WotC also has their own internal writers and WW contracts it out to freelancers. So you get situations on the forum where one writer says "Oh, I didn't do that part and wasn't involved in that section so I don't know." Well, having a professional manager and people in the same building fixes lots of those issues.


As far as the support goes too, if they're just freelancers they probably don't get paid to provide support for their books post-release. Errata and web supplements, etc. WotC they work for the company still after their book is done so they can easily go back and fix old errors.

 

[Lord Ben]

Blargh, sleep. I'll do it in the morning.

Which morning?

 

[saganite]

I think the Hasbro part is what makes sure they hire professional editors and product managers who oversee the publishing and other things. They have to be profitable even if Hasbro has billions. WW has money too, but I don't know who runs them or how competent (business wise)they are really.
From what I understand WotC also has their own internal writers and WW contracts it out to freelancers. So you get situations on the forum where one writer says "Oh, I didn't do that part and wasn't involved in that section so I don't know." Well, having a professional manager and people in the same building fixes lots of those issues.


As far as the support goes too, if they're just freelancers they probably don't get paid to provide support for their books post-release. Errata and web supplements, etc. WotC they work for the company still after their book is done so they can easily go back and fix old errors.

You're right. Its definitely comprised of both sides though. Hasbro makes sure WotC can afford to get the professional editors because they expect a certain level of quality out of their products.


Yes, I definitely agree on the professional manager bit, but that all still comes down to finances in the end.


As for the last bit, yea, that's one of the benefits of being a larger company like WotC. It's too bad, really, especially when you consider the fact that WW is rereleasing Wonders of the Lost Age for that very reason. >.<


Yeah, Tome. Wheeeeerrrrrre arrrreeeee yooooouuuuu? >.>

 

[The Scorp]

wait....the rereleases are revised or reeditted products?


I thought they ran out and they are just that...rereleasing them.


I wont buy it. Even if they revised and reeditted it completely and it makes more sense. I wont buy it. I think you should get it right the first time, or as close to right. If it was that bad that you had to, months later, send out a corrected version then thats bad business. I can except this from comp games via patches, or other firmware etc etc. I can't for literature. Its just unacceptable. I hope its just a rerelease and nothing more.