OOC General Discussion

[ChoShadow]

Poor Yamcha indeed. Well, at least Krillin and Tien and some of the other side characters are getting some love in Super. Even Yamcha got to have a little moment.

Anybody here keeping up with Dragon Ball Super, btw?

Oh I'm keeping up with it all right. But I'm really concerned about the crazy "power balancing" they've got going on. There's no way that Android 17, no matter how long he's been training, should be able to keep up with Goku while he's SSGSS with all the fights he's been in and how much more powerful he's become over the course of Super alone. I know they're trying to make each character more relevant and capable in their own way of participating in the tournament of power, but come on.

 

[D. Rex]

Oh I'm keeping up with it all right. But I'm really concerned about the crazy "power balancing" they've got going on. There's no way that Android 17, no matter how long he's been training, should be able to keep up with Goku while he's SSGSS with all the fights he's been in and how much more powerful he's become over the course of Super alone. I know they're trying to make each character more relevant and capable in their own way of participating in the tournament of power, but come on.

Same here.

I don't know how either. While I don't think it's entirely impossible, though isn't hard to miss the somewhat wonky balancing. It was bound to happen though, given the power creep going on. But it's still pretty normal for DB. So thankfully it isn't terribly jarring.

The only thing I can really point to in 17's defense would be Super 17 in GT. And perhaps the androids are more advanced than people have given them credit for.

I still think 17 would loose pretty easily if SSGSS Goku was serious.

 

[ChoShadow]

Same here.

I don't know how either. While I don't think it's entirely impossible, though isn't hard to miss the somewhat wonky balancing. It was bound to happen though, given the power creep going on. But it's still pretty normal for DB. So thankfully it isn't terribly jarring.

The only thing I can really point to in 17's defense would be Super 17 in GT. And perhaps the androids are more advanced than people have given them credit for.

I still think 17 would loose pretty easily if SSGSS Goku was serious.

Yeah. GT isn't canon so that part really isn't a thing here I don't think.

But oh well. I can understand Toriyama wanting to make everyone relevant and all, but still the power creep has been real and rather unwelcome in my book. At the very least 17 should only have been able to take on Goku in his SS form, but fighting on relatively even ground with him in SSGSS? Not a chance. There's no way 17 was able to train in a few years by himself and become as powerful as a deity.

 

[D. Rex]

Yeah. GT isn't canon so that part really isn't a thing here I don't think.

But oh well. I can understand Toriyama wanting to make everyone relevant and all, but still the power creep has been real and rather unwelcome in my book. At the very least 17 should only have been able to take on Goku in his SS form, but fighting on relatively even ground with him in SSGSS? Not a chance. There's no way 17 was able to train in a few years by himself and become as powerful as a deity.

I know, lol but I still think it was a fun series.

Yeah, the power creep is real this time around. But still par for the course. Toriyama has always focused on the fun of it rather than making things make sense. I can't say I wholey approve, as it definitely runs the risk of him, toyataro and Toei writing themselves into a corner. Not to mention the inconsistencies. Though if I had any issue, it would be that it tends to make transformations mundane after so long being used. Which is again, part for the course. Thankfully it isn't so bad as to make me not enjoy it.

As for 17, I can only reason that a lot of it hinges on the androids unlimited power supply. He could theoretically train nonstop without a rest however hard he wanted. Which brought me to a thought I had about 17 and 18 and their strength, I think it might be fun to see their "unlimited power supply" actually hit a cap. And they actually start getting tired or run the risk of running out of power and dying. As even though they are incredibly advanced, Dr. Gero couldn't have possibly anticipated this sort of increase of stress on the system.

 

[ChoShadow]

I know, lol but I still think it was a fun series.

Yeah, the power creep is real this time around. But still par for the course. Toriyama has always focused on the fun of it rather than making things make sense. I can't say I wholey approve, as it definitely runs the risk of him, toyataro and Toei writing themselves into a corner. Not to mention the inconsistencies. Though if I had any issue, it would be that it tends to make transformations mundane after so long being used. Which is again, part for the course. Thankfully it isn't so bad as to make me not enjoy it.

As for 17, I can only reason that a lot of it hinges on the androids unlimited power supply. He could theoretically train nonstop without a rest however hard he wanted. Which brought me to a thought I had about 17 and 18 and their strength, I think it might be fun to see their "unlimited power supply" actually hit a cap. And they actually start getting tired or run the risk of running out of power and dying. As even though they are incredibly advanced, Dr. Gero couldn't have possibly anticipated this sort of increase of stress on the system.

True.

Their power supply is unlimited, but their own ability to harness and control various levels of Ki should not be. But oh well. We'll see how things develop moving forward. I'm more interested in seeing what Gohan is able to become now that he's getting used to his old power again by training with Piccolo.

 

[D. Rex]

True.

Their power supply is unlimited, but their own ability to harness and control various levels of Ki should not be. But oh well. We'll see how things develop moving forward. I'm more interested in seeing what Gohan is able to become now that he's getting used to his old power again by training with Piccolo.

Mhm, and I think it would be cool to see those kind of limits on them.

I think I am most interested in seeing I'm what they are going to do with Krillin, and how he and 18 are going to fight together.

Though Gohan and Piccolo are a close second.

 

[ChazGhost]

I'm going to try to get a post up tomorrow.

 

[ChoShadow]

I'm going to try to get a post up tomorrow.

Alrighty.

 

[D. Rex]

ChoShadow Something I been meaning to ask, do we have access to the Ozaru form through the fake moon energy ball?

Retro-Grey Something I forgot to add through Faero. Faero would have also Strom a case to give to Pyro, containing the money he said he would give to him. Including a bit extra to possibly entice him into continuing to help the saiyans.

 

[ChoShadow]

ChoShadow Something I been meaning to ask, do we have access to the Ozaru form through the fake moon energy ball?

Retro-Grey Something I forgot to add through Faero. Faero would have also Strom a case to give to Pyro, containing the money he said he would give to him. Including a bit extra to possibly entice him into continuing to help the saiyans.

No. There won't be any fake moon energy ball that creates blutz waves for us to transform. The real moon will be required, and it will play a role in an upcoming battle so we'll get our Ozaru fix.

 

[D. Rex]

ChoShadow I will try to get a post out today responding to Pyro.

In the meantime, I was curious, what are the negetive side effects to super saiyan white? Is like an inverse of the dark ss, where instead of going steadily crazy you instead eventually reach a point of apathy and lethargy where you basically become a vegetable and die? And are those forms something that are temporary or is it something that stays in motion once the transformation first happens, signifying the hearts true dedication to that ideal?

 

[ChoShadow]

ChoShadow I will try to get a post out today responding to Pyro.

In the meantime, I was curious, what are the negetive side effects to super saiyan white? Is like an inverse of the dark ss, where instead of going steadily crazy you instead eventually reach a point of apathy and lethargy where you basically become a vegetable and die? And are those forms something that are temporary or is it something that stays in motion once the transformation first happens, signifying the hearts true dedication to that ideal?

The Dark Super Saiyan and the White Super Saiyan both carry significant consequences, and you're not far from the mark on your inquiry.

The Dark Super Saiyan slowly eats away at the user's mind because it draws on primal instincts and aggression to enhance the user's power beyond what a normal Super Saiyan form can do. This will eventually cause the Saiyan to become a feral beast with little to no cognitive recognition of friend or foe or even what the Saiyan themselves are at that point in time. They will simply become a beast that knows only to attack anything and everything it sees as a potential threat, rival, or prey. For instance it will likely leave birds and other small animals alone, but if it sees a bear-like creature it will hunt it down as worthy prey. If it sees another humanoid it will immediately perceive it as either a threat or a rival, and regardless of which they see it as they will attack immediately.

The White Super Saiyan draws upon pure apathy as a means to cope with and protect the Saiyan from whatever trauma and loss they suffered. It's the Saiyan's body trying to do something positive for them to spare them what happened, but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. Because the Saiyan's brain begins shutting off the signals which trigger emotions such as trust, friendship, camaraderie and love, the Saiyan slowly loses any and all reason to attach themselves to anyone or anything else. They become a completely blank emotional slate in which they can no longer feel for anyone or anything, and it is this uncaring which allows their bodies to react and move faster than their counterparts since there's nothing to inhibit the brain's signals such as fear, anxiety, or concern.

Neither transformation will lead to a Saiyan's death directly, but the changes in behavior can lead to death depending on who the Saiyan encounters and when. If they are caught by a power being before they can transform, they're as good as dead. But if they transform, it's not likely they'll be dying anytime soon.

The Dark Super Saiyan is most likely to be killed because while they become feral, there is just enough cognitive thought going on for them to desire to pursue worthy opponents as all Saiyans do deep down at the core of their instinctive process. They'll still know how to operate an interstellar vessel, and if they can sense high power levels they'll go looking for a fight. However, that's the problem. Whereas their natural mindset would recognize a foe they can't hope to defeat such as a high powered Darkhood or Omnizwart member, in this state they cannot recognize when and if they're beaten and will go to fight anyway.

The White Super Saiyan is most likely to be killed from an instance of being caught by surprise and ambush. Because they don't care about anyone or anything, they aren't likely to pay attention to what their senses may otherwise be screaming at them like, "HELLO!!! INCOMING HIGH POWERED ENEMY!!!" They'll ignore their own senses out of pure apathy and if they are caught in an ambush while they are untransformed then there's not much they would be able to do to save themselves.

Make sense?

 

[D. Rex]

The Dark Super Saiyan and the White Super Saiyan both carry significant consequences, and you're not far from the mark on your inquiry.

The Dark Super Saiyan slowly eats away at the user's mind because it draws on primal instincts and aggression to enhance the user's power beyond what a normal Super Saiyan form can do. This will eventually cause the Saiyan to become a feral beast with little to no cognitive recognition of friend or foe or even what the Saiyan themselves are at that point in time. They will simply become a beast that knows only to attack anything and everything it sees as a potential threat, rival, or prey. For instance it will likely leave birds and other small animals alone, but if it sees a bear-like creature it will hunt it down as worthy prey. If it sees another humanoid it will immediately perceive it as either a threat or a rival, and regardless of which they see it as they will attack immediately.

The White Super Saiyan draws upon pure apathy as a means to cope with and protect the Saiyan from whatever trauma and loss they suffered. It's the Saiyan's body trying to do something positive for them to spare them what happened, but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. Because the Saiyan's brain begins shutting off the signals which trigger emotions such as trust, friendship, camaraderie and love, the Saiyan slowly loses any and all reason to attach themselves to anyone or anything else. They become a completely blank emotional slate in which they can no longer feel for anyone or anything, and it is this uncaring which allows their bodies to react and move faster than their counterparts since there's nothing to inhibit the brain's signals such as fear, anxiety, or concern.

Neither transformation will lead to a Saiyan's death directly, but the changes in behavior can lead to death depending on who the Saiyan encounters and when. If they are caught by a power being before they can transform, they're as good as dead. But if they transform, it's not likely they'll be dying anytime soon.

The Dark Super Saiyan is most likely to be killed because while they become feral, there is just enough cognitive thought going on for them to desire to pursue worthy opponents as all Saiyans do deep down at the core of their instinctive process. They'll still know how to operate an interstellar vessel, and if they can sense high power levels they'll go looking for a fight. However, that's the problem. Whereas their natural mindset would recognize a foe they can't hope to defeat such as a high powered Darkhood or Omnizwart member, in this state they cannot recognize when and if they're beaten and will go to fight anyway.

The White Super Saiyan is most likely to be killed from an instance of being caught by surprise and ambush. Because they don't care about anyone or anything, they aren't likely to pay attention to what their senses may otherwise be screaming at them like, "HELLO!!! INCOMING HIGH POWERED ENEMY!!!" They'll ignore their own senses out of pure apathy and if they are caught in an ambush while they are untransformed then there's not much they would be able to do to save themselves.

Make sense?

It does. But could it also lower the defensive nature of white due to them being apathetic about being hit? Like, does it effect their sense of self preservation? Or maybe I am just mixing general apathy with losing the will to live, which sounds like something that ssw could bring about.

Can the forms be reversed? Or will they be stuck like that? And can the form be carried further? Such as super saiyan white 3 or dark super saiyan 2.


Which reminds me! Do you already have plans on the who's and how's of the future transformations?

 

[ChoShadow]

It does. But could it also lower the defensive nature of white due to them being apathetic about being hit? Like, does it effect their sense of self preservation? Or maybe I am just mixing general apathy with losing the will to live, which sounds like something that ssw could bring about.

Can the forms be reversed? Or will they be stuck like that? And can the form be carried further? Such as super saiyan white 3 or dark super saiyan 2.


Which reminds me! Do you already have plans on the who's and how's of the future transformations?

The White Super Saiyan's brain shuts off all sense of emotional attachment to the world around them which turns them into a single minded being with this one thought in their head on a loop: "Nothing matters anymore."

It's not that they've lost the will to live, specifically. It's that they've lost the will to care about anything which includes their own life. Nothing matters. It's all 100% neutral and uncaring about anything anymore.

The forms can be reversed if someone is able to break through to the Saiyan's true consciousness which becomes suppressed when the form is first taken. The longer the Saiyan is left to experience whatever drove them to the form in the first place, the harder it is to reach their true consciousness and return them to normal.

For example: If Era had attained the power of a Super Saiyan and she were to be separated from everyone else and told they had all died and that she was now completely alone, she would lose all will and desire to live because it's her friendship with the others and her sibling connection to Valkyrie which gives her a reason to live right now. If she lost all of that, she'd lose everything. Her brain would begin to shut down until it activated its self preservation mechanism which triggers the shift to White Super Saiyan and the lack of caring about anything anymore. It would save her from a mental breakdown, but it also makes her a completely blank and neutral being without any care or desire to do anything. This could lead to any number of outcomes, one of which is her simply retreating to some far off corner of the galaxy to live out the rest of her days in solitude so she doesn't have to risk caring coming into contact with anything that could trigger her emotionally ever again.

The forms have no advancement on their own as they aren't really isolated transformations like the regular SS form. Instead they're simply an altered version of the SS power and are attained by certain states of mind. So if a Saiyan has attained SS2 naturally, then if and when they are driven into DSS or WSS the form will be that of a SS2. If they're already a SS3, then the DSS or WSS will be a SS3 as well. Make sense? These forms are a shift in power due to mentality, not a transformation in and of themselves.

 

[D. Rex]

The White Super Saiyan's brain shuts off all sense of emotional attachment to the world around them which turns them into a single minded being with this one thought in their head on a loop: "Nothing matters anymore."

It's not that they've lost the will to live, specifically. It's that they've lost the will to care about anything which includes their own life. Nothing matters. It's all 100% neutral and uncaring about anything anymore.

The forms can be reversed if someone is able to break through to the Saiyan's true consciousness which becomes suppressed when the form is first taken. The longer the Saiyan is left to experience whatever drove them to the form in the first place, the harder it is to reach their true consciousness and return them to normal.

For example: If Era had attained the power of a Super Saiyan and she were to be separated from everyone else and told they had all died and that she was now completely alone, she would lose all will and desire to live because it's her friendship with the others and her sibling connection to Valkyrie which gives her a reason to live right now. If she lost all of that, she'd lose everything. Her brain would begin to shut down until it activated its self preservation mechanism which triggers the shift to White Super Saiyan and the lack of caring about anything anymore. It would save her from a mental breakdown, but it also makes her a completely blank and neutral being without any care or desire to do anything. This could lead to any number of outcomes, one of which is her simply retreating to some far off corner of the galaxy to live out the rest of her days in solitude so she doesn't have to risk caring coming into contact with anything that could trigger her emotionally ever again.

The forms have no advancement on their own as they aren't really isolated transformations like the regular SS form. Instead they're simply an altered version of the SS power and are attained by certain states of mind. So if a Saiyan has attained SS2 naturally, then if and when they are driven into DSS or WSS the form will be that of a SS2. If they're already a SS3, then the DSS or WSS will be a SS3 as well. Make sense? These forms are a shift in power due to mentality, not a transformation in and of themselves.

Yes it does. I think that clears up all that I was curious on in those forms! Thanks.

I just been looking through the transformations and rp info to see what I can plan/speculate on/play with as the rp goes on as well as cool ideas. And am pretty excited about what we are doing next.

 

[D. Rex]

ChoShadow should I post next?

 

[ChoShadow]

ChoShadow should I post next?

As long as you feel that Fae has a reason to speak up or do something, yes. Please post whenever you can. There is no posting order.

 

[D. Rex]

As long as you feel that Fae has a reason to speak up or do something, yes. Please post whenever you can. There is no posting order.

Not really. She is more of just a bystander through this. It would be more of just an excuse to ask a question that would pop into her head. But you can answer that here if you want, since I wouldn't have much a content to my post.

If she gave blood, would it remove another's genetic limiter? And, if she gave birth, would the offspring be born without a limiter like what might happen with Era or Val.

 

[ChoShadow]

Not really. She is more of just a bystander through this. It would be more of just an excuse to ask a question that would pop into her head. But you can answer that here if you want, since I wouldn't have much a content to my post.

If she gave blood, would it remove another's genetic limiter? And, if she gave birth, would the offspring be born without a limiter like what might happen with Era or Val.

Yes, and yes.

If Fae were to give blood now (presuming she's a universal donor like Era and Val are) then whoever received it would have what they needed to unlock their genetic limiter. And since Fae's DNA now carries the genetic limit removal gene, if she were to give birth her offspring would be born without a limiter as well.

 

[D. Rex]

Yes, and yes.

If Fae were to give blood now (presuming she's a universal donor like Era and Val are) then whoever received it would have what they needed to unlock their genetic limiter. And since Fae's DNA now carries the genetic limit removal gene, if she were to give birth her offspring would be born without a limiter as well.

Alrighty! Well in that case, no need to wait for me to move the scene ahead, unless someone explicitly interacts with Fae until then.

 

[D. Rex]

ChoShadow If any of my post was too presumptionuous or too close to bunnying, let me know so I can change it.

 

[ChoShadow]

D. Rex

My post contains a few "rules" of Ki as part of the narrative. It should be mostly straight forward, but if anything confuses you don't hesitate to say so.

In short what is said is that attacks like the Kamehameha, which are continuous streams and whose core never really leaves the user's physical body, are fairly difficult, though entirely possible, to manipulate once launched.

Attacks like a ball of Ki that are launched and no longer in physical contact with the user's body are impossible to control (for most) because Ki doesn't have a mind of its own. Once it's no longer in contact with the user it's on a one-way course towards the target, and if the target moves... Well, you're SOL. Unless you have telekinesis (or Era's newly developed method) there is no way to manipulate a blast of Ki which is not connected to the user's body once it is launched. If you don't hit your mark, you don't hit your mark.

Our little resident prodigy has found a way to defy the odds and is controlling not one, but two Ki balls which are not in physical contact with her body anymore. So to Faeora it will look like Era is doing the impossible, but Era will explain the attack once the match is concluded.

So good luck having Fae avoid/destroy the attack. I look forward to seeing what Fae comes up with!

 

[D. Rex]

Makes pretty good sense to me! But would their be certain advantages to each sort?

But anyway, I like the idea of the ki link attack. Reminds me of Yamcha's spirit ball, which I always thought was pretty cool.

Lol Fae was about to pull out her newest move too. One as dangerous and also reliant on ki control. Wherein she would create a large ki pool, and use it that combined with a ki blast, forcing it's ki capacity beyond the usual limits for something of a "overcharged" version thay she wouldn't normally be able to achieve. Depending on the size of the pool, could turn a beam that would normally clock out at a times four, to a times ten or beyond. It of course would have its drawbacks, as I would explain if I right it.

But at this point, she could either try to go all out and destroy it, or go evasive. Which would best set you up for the move you wanted to show off with Era?

 

[D. Rex]

ChoShadow sorry, forgot to tag you in the above post.

 

[ChoShadow]

Makes pretty good sense to me! But would their be certain advantages to each sort?

But anyway, I like the idea of the ki link attack. Reminds me of Yamcha's spirit ball, which I always thought was pretty cool.

Lol Fae was about to pull out her newest move too. One as dangerous and also reliant on ki control. Wherein she would create a large ki pool, and use it that combined with a ki blast, forcing it's ki capacity beyond the usual limits for something of a "overcharged" version thay she wouldn't normally be able to achieve. Depending on the size of the pool, could turn a beam that would normally clock out at a times four, to a times ten or beyond. It of course would have its drawbacks, as I would explain if I right it.

But at this point, she could either try to go all out and destroy it, or go evasive. Which would best set you up for the move you wanted to show off with Era?

The advantage of a continuous stream of Ki like the Kamehameha are that they can be very, very powerful compared to the kind of attack Era's using. If Era had a Kamehameha technique which was a continuous stream of Ki, she'd be able to push its potential much further than a measly 4x her base power. She'd be able to easily push it to 10x and potentially beyond if she trains enough to handle the massive increase in output. The drawback is that they're harder to manipulate and are best used in a straight ahead conflict, literally. The less they have to be moved around, the better. Every change in direction takes a little bit of power away from them.

The advantage of the attack Era's using is that, while they're not nearly as powerful as a continuous stream like the Kamehameha, they are much, much more maneuverable and can turn on a dime to follow their targets. If the user has trained themselves well for the use of such attacks, as many as 4 or even 5 of them can be launched simultaneously. The main drawbacks are the mental strain and the fact that the more the user has to focus on moving around or evading an enemy, the more likely the attack is to fail. As well these attacks can be severed from the user if the enemy either knows how to do so or if they chance upon the method which I will touch on later.

I'll let you choose the method, but to make sure you're fully informed and can make the best decision I'll give some info.

If Fae does a times ten attack from her base of around 2-ish million, it still won't be powerful enough to stop Era's attack. It will get pushed back at a steady clip. So it's possible to do and could buy her some much needed time to think about what to do next, but it won't stop the attack.

If Fae continues to evade the ball she's going to be fighting a losing battle. She has to push forward somehow because with Era controlling it there's nothing she can do to stop it from catching her eventually.

But here's the attacks weakness: the Link itself.

This will perhaps happen by accident, but if Fae chances to get between the ball and Era and launches that all-out attack at the ball then she will sever the link.

The link between the attack and Era is very strong and won't be broken by random interference like a body getting between them. But if she does what I just mentioned about getting between Era and the ball and using that attack, the link's going to break. No question. It can only withstand around a power that's roughly equivalent to Era's base power of around 8 million. So if Fae's power shoots to 20+ million due to her technique, there's no way the link won't break. When that happens the Ki ball will be like any other Ki ball in that it will then travel in a straight line once Fae breaks away from it.

However... While Fae is worried about the first ball, Era still has the second one. So she'll have to keep one eye on Era the whole time to avoid getting herself into more trouble and potentially greater danger.

Also just to talk about the near future I think the best outcome for this fight from a character growth perspective is to have Era lose in the end. This attack she's using is going to take a major toll on her reserves of Ki by the time it's finished, as this kind of attack is something she's not used to. She will need to train with it a lot more to help her body protect itself from the Ki backlash.

With Era fatigued Fae will be able to stand toe to toe with her much easier after she's managed to deal with this latest attack. And if Fae wins not only will it be a major boost of confidence in herself and her own abilities, but it will also, I think, boost her respect for Era even further since Era has finally shown a true warrior's determination to win by pulling out all the stops.

Era has long been the softie of the group and has shown a reluctance to truly embrace her warrior's heritage since the beginning. She never utilized all-out Ki based attacks before because she was never the type to risk killing her enemies. But with the recent developments with the Darkhoods and Omnizwart, Era has realized that she can no longer afford to hold herself back and try to win with passive-aggressive techniques and combat strategies.

This fight with Fae is her way of testing her new mentality more than anything else, and testing to see if she has what it takes to be a true warrior worthy of her Saiyan blood. She will be fighting against Fae with everything she's got even after she exhausts herself with this attack. The more her fatigue wears her down, the harder she will fight to win. Even when it becomes clear that Fae is gaining ground and going to overpower her, she won't stop. She'll continue until she can't raise a fist anymore from exhaustion or until she's been knocked unconscious by Fae.

By the time the battle is over I think Fae will be able to look at Era and think, "You've finally become the warrior I knew you could be."

What do you think?