[Nightmares of the Second Age] The Daily Scribe

Sherwood said:
I was planning on giving you guys some down time to do some training, not only for yourselves, but for the ever growing army you have going on. Just waiting for the current threads to come to a good ending point.
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Telling us a ninja death squad will be on us in a day or two is not conductive to us settling down and taking a bit of time for bigger projects ;-)


On the subject of bigger projects, I'd very much like som detail on the wyld zones surrounding rathess, size, nu,ber, strength, distance etc.

Sherwood said:
It is never enough.
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I'm debating bumping Ryu up to E6 so soon. Would I be better off increasing stats first for Crafting Shennanigans? Ryu is pretty well specced out for crafting right now so I could also branch out. Comments?
 
If I understand your charm layout properly, you can already craft high end artifacts at a fairly quick pace, so I think you can afford to branch out a bit.
 
A2 is well within a single CNNT combo action and with an above average roll so is A3.


EDIT:Any areas of expertise that are lacking in our group?
 
Since we have some very strange Eclipses, Bureaucracy is actually a weakness of the group. Medicine is also uncovered, I think, and has some nice stuff.
 
Medicine and Eclipse-y stuff, I think. The Eclipses really should tackle the Eclipse-y stuff themselves, so Medicine would probably be best. Lore might be worthwhile for Ryu to dive into. Does he use Sorcery? That's always a decent option too.
 
CASTIST!


Why shouldn't Eclipses be allowed to craft, to wyld-shape, to throw golden head-chopping disks?


Aren't we just as good as the rest of you?


Are you just DETERMINED to oppress us?


All this "Eclipses do Eclipse-y stuff," "Twilights do Twilight-y stuff" is sooo last age.
 
....Because you're by nature more skilled at doing it? :P


And no, you aren't. An Eclipse will never be the terrifying opponent of a swordswoman-combatant that Aurora is, nor the death-dealing ninja commando Storm is, let alone the shape-shifting huntress that Skadi is (but let's not get too crazy - that's a different Exaltation). Similarly, neither of them will ever hold a candle to De's or Rose's ability to convince another being they are right and then make them accountable to their word for eternity. There's a reason Castes exist - they delineate natural strengths. Sure, there's nothing wrong with pushing the boundaries and that should be actively encouraged. But an Eclipse that does not make some use of his or her Caste-granted powers in the first place is not a real Eclipse, and would probably not exist in the first place as one.


That said, if Ryu has Bureaucracy as a favored skill, it wouldn't be terrible for him to pick up. I imagine Twilights who end up running large scale Crafting/scientific operations would find those kinds of Charms very useful to keep their throngs of technicians in line and operating at peak efficiency.
 
That is objectively wrong.


Aside from anima powers (which, I'll grant you are pretty nice for Dawn and Night), any member of any caste is, in principle, fully capable of being awesomely skilled at anything.


Rose is an Eclipse rather than a Zenith because she is a diplomat more than a preacher, but her chosen methods are very personal where the stereotypical eclipse has a tendency to act more behind the scenes and interact with big picture stuff.


Similarly, I can easily imagine an Eclipse caste who outfights most dawns and holds Al Capone's old wisdom of "you can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word," close to his heart. In personal combat, the Eclipse may even be more powerful than the Dawn since he has access to non-solar charms that complement him.


What is not (easily) possible is for a member of one caste to cover every aspect of another's caste. Rose, for instance, cannot be crafter, investigator, wyld-shaper, teacher, healer and sorceror all at once, whereas Ryu can, but in one or two of those areas, she can easily be his equal, if not his better.
 
Esbilon said:
That is objectively wrong.
Aside from anima powers (which, I'll grant you are pretty nice for Dawn and Night), any member of any caste is, in principle, fully capable of being awesomely skilled at anything.


Rose is an Eclipse rather than a Zenith because she is a diplomat more than a preacher, but her chosen methods are very personal where the stereotypical eclipse has a tendency to act more behind the scenes and interact with big picture stuff.


Similarly, I can easily imagine an Eclipse caste who outfights most dawns and holds Al Capone's old wisdom of "you can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word," close to his heart. In personal combat, the Eclipse may even be more powerful than the Dawn since he has access to non-solar charms that complement him.


What is not (easily) possible is for a member of one caste to cover every aspect of another's caste. Rose, for instance, cannot be crafter, investigator, wyld-shaper, teacher, healer and sorceror all at once, whereas Ryu can, but in one or two of those areas, she can easily be his equal, if not his better.
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The five Favored abilities (or less so, depending on your Exaltation, or Attributes, if you're an Alchemical or Lunar) we are inherently limited to say otherwise. There is only so much ground one can cover. An Eclipse will never have the ability to outfight a Dawn in every scenario simply because there will always be some area that the Dawn will be more acclimated to learning in than the Eclipse.


Given infinite time, sure - the only differences between Castes are those from Anima powers, and those are mostly superficial. Exalted is not a bubble, though. We can get philosophical about these things as much as either of us wants, but in the end, the hard truth is that Castes are there to say "You're naturally good at this; go do whatever else you like as well, but you're most efficient if you use what you have by nature."


For example: Storm doesn't favor Bureaucracy or Performance, and has a single dot in each. He could put a ton of effort forward and become the best he could ever be at those abilities if he simply put his mind towards it and worked at it. He could probably become better than anyone else at it, even. But given the time commitment required, another Solar equally devoted who Favors those abilities will always outshine Storm. That's the harsh reality of it.


Again, I have nothing wrong with saying that in a perfect world, a Twilight could be the greatest and most well-rounded warrior in the world. But in a real scenario, while that Twilight might be the greatest archer and swordsman, the most physically resilient and nimble, and the most tactical - he will never be the greatest martial artist or axe-thrower, nor will he possess an indomitable spirit of the warrior unsurpassed by any who will ever exist.
 
[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]The five Favored abilities (or less so, depending on your Exaltation, or Attributes, if you're an Alchemical or Lunar) we are inherently limited to say otherwise. There is only so much ground one can cover. An Eclipse will never have the ability to outfight a Dawn in every scenario simply because there will always be some area that the Dawn will be more acclimated to learning in than the Eclipse.

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If we expand the conversation to cover non-solaroids, the caste-gap increases dramatically. This is true.

[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]
Given infinite time, sure - the only differences between Castes are those from Anima powers, and those are mostly superficial. Exalted is not a bubble, though. We can get philosophical about these things as much as either of us wants, but in the end, the hard truth is that Castes are there to say "You're naturally good at this; go do whatever else you like as well, but you're most efficient if you use what you have by nature."

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Actually, given very long time I would expect the differences to increase. The Dawn would branch into the weapons he doesn't usually favor, the Eclipse would pick up Riding, etc.


But with a limited amount of xp, a high degree of specialization is a given, and the majority of one's charm may very likely lie within one's favored abilities rather than one's caste abilities. Rose and, I think, Storm are examples of this. The caste refers more closely to their reasons for using the charms and the manner in which they use them.

[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]
For example: Storm doesn't favor Bureaucracy or Performance, and has a single dot in each. He could put a ton of effort forward and become the best he could ever be at those abilities if he simply put his mind towards it and worked at it. He could probably become better than anyone else at it, even. But given the time commitment required, another Solar equally devoted who Favors those abilities will always outshine Storm. That's the harsh reality of it.

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You are making my point for me, good sir ;) It's about what you favor, not what your caste is.
 
Esbilon said:
You are making my point for me, good sir ;) It's about what you favor, not what your caste is.
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I am, but I am not. My point was this - given infinite time and experience, Favored abilities no longer matter. The fact that we only have Five and do not have infinite time our experience limits this. Yes, the possibility exists for an Eclipse to outshine a Dawn, but the reality is that it's a) not likely and b) if happens will be limited to a very small scope. The Dawn will always be the stronger combatant, the Eclipse the stronger bureaucrat - this is how Sol designed them.
 
If I may voice my opinion, if I make an eclipse capable of outshining a Dawn in combat, I'm neglecting the skills that should have been the reason I was chosen as an Eclipse in the first place, otherwise a Dawn caste shard should have gotten ahold of me simply for my combative nature and proficiency to bash skulls in, since I'm already devoting all my time and experience to be a fighting machine.


On that note, the areas we're cripplingly weak as mentioned before are Bureaucracy, Medicine and Sorcery mostly. A couple more Socialize charms could be useful, specially when we get the city re-populated with the local tribes.
 
Rose has the basics of socialize covered, but a supplement would indeed be helpful.


Caste is not as clear cut as you make it sound, and in my opinion, it is not just the more or less arbitrary group of five abilities in which you have the most dots and charms. If that were the case, Rose would be a Zenith, De'aneir'a a Twilight, and Storm a Dawn. Caste is much more a matter of flavor, of the reasons behind the use of the tools that charms are.
 
Esbilon said:
If that were the case, Rose would be a Zenith, De'aneir'a a Twilight, and Storm a Dawn. Caste is much more a matter of flavor, of the reasons behind the use of the tools that charms are.
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Not so much. Rose is not the enduring mountain of survival that is a Pillar of the Sun. Nor is De'aneir'a an utterly objective inquisitor equally skilled in all sciences and arts. Storm is neither Exalted martial artist nor archery by any major definition - while neither is Aurora, she possess a much greater facility for those talents than Storm because she is a Dawn caste.


Caste is more clear cut than you make it out to be. Sure, you can move away from those base definitions easily for a little flavor, and with a lot of effort to redefine your role entirely. However, the easiest and most efficient path will always be the remain closer to your natural inclinations by caste, and when you take into account meaningful and realistic limitations such as free time to train and experience, it will also be the strongest.
 
None of the characters in this game live up to all the traits associated with their caste. I am merely pointing out that a member of caste A is fully capable of outperforming a member of caste B in an area typically associated with caste B.


Regarding MrSerious original question, Survival also seems to be an area in which the group is lacking, though having Lunars may well compensate for it.
 
Let the Lunars do it, or Tiger if he deems it worth it (it would fit the whole ascetic monk/martial artist thing anyways, I bet).
 
Ryu, perhaps you would be interested in getting the Lore-training and empowering charms. We will need to civilize and teach the tribesmen, and you could have a massive entourage of crafters, teachers and doctors in the city as well.
 
Yeah, but you can only teach what you know, Ryu potentially could teach craft, medicine and sorcery to essence awakened mortals.
 
Esbilon said:
Rose has the initial lore-based teaching charm, and may get the others somewhere down the line.
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Another reason Rose should pick up more Bureaucracy dots! We're going to need mortal servants to eventually manage the boring parts of running our empire while we're out kicking ass and taking names, and what better a way to train them than HAM.


Storm will be picking up more Larceny dots for similar reasons - assimilation of the Realm and other major societies will be much easier with spies and propaganda agents in place before we make our presence truly known.
 
...The ability to build an effective and competent bureaucracy that is genuinely loyal to the nation they support and the people they assist. The Solars truly have powers beyond the dreams of mortal men.
 
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