New ST -- Some basic questions

[Captain Hesperus]

So, since my players like fun solutions to worrying problems ...
Can any confirm how a Shadowland at night affects a Soulbreaker Orb? Or, for that matter, how it affects anything else?


In particular, what i'm looking for is if you set of a Soulbreaker inside a Shadowland at night, and it's blast radius would extend outside the Shadowland, does it extend into the Underworld or into Creation or both?


Similarly, if you, say, throw a rock or fire a bow out of a Shadowland at night, how does that work in terms of where it comes to rest?


Additionally, can those in the Underworld look into Shadowlands like someone in Creation would or are they something different there?


And, just for my own curiosity, what happens if someone in the Underworld and someone in Creation try to enter a Shadowland at the same time at the same point on it's edge? Telefrag?

As I see it, a Shadowland at night is essentially contiguous with the Underworld, since crossing its borders would leave you wandering the Underworld at sunrise. Thus I'd say that if you stood in a Shdowland at night and threw a rock across the boundary, at sunrise the rock would not be where it landed last night.


A Soulbreaker Orb would, I suppose, only affect the Underworld if it was detonated at night in the Shadowland. However, I'd say that at Calibration all rules are off and both the Underworld and Creation are affected.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hello! Uh, yet again!


The advice in the thread has certainly helped quite a lot so far! The Shadowbreaker Orb advice below has come in handy, buuuut when looking at some of my players' (and some NPCs') charms i've noticed something slightly puzzling. Two things.


First, and probably easiest: Are there any rules for dual-wielding? An NPC being used right now is using Fire Dragon Style with the signature weapons, two short daiklaves. It has it's own bonus for using them, but are there any other bonuses/penalties for dual-wielding? I think a player of mine mentioned it gave a bonus to Rate once but I haven't been able to find any rules on it.


Second: In the order of attack, you declare offensive charms on step one and defensive charms on step two. Just to check, are there any instances where a charm (other than a reroll charm) can be activated later in the attack order without it needing to be declared in Step 1/2? On a related note, do you have to declare counter-attack charms on Step 2 always?


Oh, and one I just remembered whilst typing this up, just because i'm always a little worried about metagaming: In social combat, do you have to declare what stats you're using on your attack? This is just to stop my players going 'hrm, suspicious' when the person who claims to be telling the truth is using a hell of a lot of manipulation-based social attacks rather than charisma.

 

[Plague of Hats]

First' date=' and probably easiest: Are there any rules for dual-wielding? An NPC being used right now is using Fire Dragon Style with the signature weapons, two short daiklaves. It has it's own bonus for using them, but are there any other bonuses/penalties for dual-wielding? I think a player of mine mentioned it gave a bonus to Rate once but I haven't been able to find any rules on it.[/quote']
It's only implied in the rules, not outright explained. You can make a number of attacks with any weapon you're wielding equal to its Rate; if you're wielding two weapons, you can use them both up to the limits of their Rate. The off-hand weapon will suffer -1 internal penalties to attacks made with it, unless it's paired like a set of short daiklaves or whatever.

Second: In the order of attack, you declare offensive charms on step one and defensive charms on step two. Just to check, are there any instances where a charm (other than a reroll charm) can be activated later in the attack order without it needing to be declared in Step 1/2? On a related note, do you have to declare counter-attack charms on Step 2 always?

Another, more obscure implication that is an important rule. When a Charm's Type is "Reflexive (Step 3+)", that is considered an explicit allowance for declaring a Charm outside of Steps 1-2. That is to say, you declare Reflexive Charms in the steps they list, if any are listed.

Oh, and one I just remembered whilst typing this up, just because i'm always a little worried about metagaming: In social combat, do you have to declare what stats you're using on your attack? This is just to stop my players going 'hrm, suspicious' when the person who claims to be telling the truth is using a hell of a lot of manipulation-based social attacks rather than charisma.

By the game's basic philosophy, yes. While the PCs are especially empowered by meta-game knowledge, however, the spirit of this rule is that people playing a game should know what the game is doing so that they are not randomly flailing around or turtling behind the most efficient defense doing nothing.


Keep in mind also, that "Manipulation" is not automatically the same as "lying." Emotional and situational manipulation is still Manipulation, even if the speaker never lies.


Plenty of people will tell you, at length, why one or the other way is better. Talk to your players and let your group decide what's right for your group.

 

[QuasiMortuus]

Oh' date=' and one I just remembered whilst typing this up, just because i'm always a little worried about metagaming: In social combat, do you have to declare what stats you're using on your attack? This is just to stop my players going 'hrm, suspicious' when the person who claims to be telling the truth is using a hell of a lot of manipulation-based social attacks rather than charisma.[/quote']
By the game's basic philosophy, yes. While the PCs are especially empowered by meta-game knowledge, however, the spirit of this rule is that people playing a game should know what the game is doing so that they are not randomly flailing around or turtling behind the most efficient defense doing nothing.


Keep in mind also, that "Manipulation" is not automatically the same as "lying." Emotional and situational manipulation is still Manipulation, even if the speaker never lies.


Plenty of people will tell you, at length, why one or the other way is better. Talk to your players and let your group decide what's right for your group.

I disagree, I don't really see why the players should know what I, the ST, am rolling & when (in Social Combat or otherwise). But as you said, Plague of Hats, that all depends on the group.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hello, gentlepeoples! I return once again.


Everyone in this thread has been a great help, and my game seems to be going well. Just want to make a quick check of something related to the Immaculate Order:


In a decently sized city (not a metropolis or anything) that has a temple of the Immaculate Order in it, how many monks would there probably be? Note that the place is effectively part of the Realm.


Additionally, related, how many Immaculate Monks are Terrestrial Martial Artists as opposed to mooks when it comes to fighting?


(My players are almost guaranteed to be about to either flee from, or fight, a Dragonblood of the Wyld Hunt right outside this temple with the monks inevitably going to come outside at the cries of 'Anathema!' to help deal with things, so felt it might be good to know.)

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

It's a hard call on exactly how common Terrestrial Martial Artist monks are, among the mortal monks. Most are likely working in that direction, if they aren't...but it's a hard road. The method they use, the Essence Enlightening Sutra, is a 5 year long ascetic regimen. That brings them to having an Enlightened Essence, but they will still require raising their Martial Arts to 5 and Essence to 3 before they can take a single charm. They will also know ONLY Five Dragon Style...and their cap of Essence 3, Martial Arts 5 will prevent them from learning anything past Five Dragon Form. Many mortal Immaculates will also practice thaumaturgy of some form, most commonly a few specific Art of the Dead rituals (but not mastery of the art), the Art of Geomancy, the Art of Warding and Exorcism, the Art of Alchemy and/or the Art of Spirit Beckoning. Spirit Beckoning, Geomancy and Warding and Exorcism are by far the most common, particularly Spirit Beckoning and Warding and Exorcism, as both are highly useful in their day to day work.


A decent sized city will probably not have just one temple, really. Think of a decent sized city in the real world. How many churches or temples or the like would a city of similar size have? Now, take into consideration there...aren't many atheists or the like in Exalted...the gods are real, and they are SCARY to the common man. Monks, who keep people safe, make people feel more comfortable. Add that the Immaculate Philosophy is the state supported and only legal religion...and there's likely to be quite a few temples in a sizeable town or a city. Also, note that the Immaculate Order runs the state sponsored local school program. Children between the ages of 5 to 9 are expected to get basic schooling in Realm controlled territory, studying with the Immaculate Monks, unless they can afford private schooling. Similarly, Immaculate Monks will preside over all weddings, funerals, naming ceremonies for all children, rituals of adulthood, and 'many more ceremonies and rites of passage' among rituals. Note that a child has no name until their naming ceremony... Now, consider a city, and how many monks will be required to handle this work load. Then, consider that beyond just running the education system, doing daily rituals and ceremonies to the various gods as required, handling rites of passage and funerals, marriages and the like, they also have the job of keeping the locals gods in line, and looking out for heresy, demons, Anathema and the like...well, you need a sizeable presence for such things.


Note however, that cloistered monks are those most likely to be most skilled in Martial Arts, while temple monks are more likely to be skilled in thaumaturgy, teaching and ritual...because those are their primary jobs. The Vatabed of a temple will be a Third or Fourth coil monk, as will the Abbot of a monastery. If Fourth coil, they MUST be Dragonblooded. I would suggest you look into the Blessed Isle's pages 74-93 for a basic overview of the Immaculate Order.


Probably a good rule of thumb for your number of monks should be something like 1:100 people in the populace, considering that the Immaculate Order is the only legal and legitimate religion. The number of Terrestrial Martial Artists among them should be mostly limited to the more talented, experienced or skilled among them...and who would reasonable have had the time to complete a five year ascetic regimen, and then further cultivate their essence from 1 to 3, though most should have at least SOME Martial Arts training, and a Monk without at least a 2, more likely a 3 Martial Arts should be rare indeed. Other common skills would include Lore, Occult, Resistance, Integrity and Medicine...and temple monks will also require Performance, and often have some levels of Socialize and Presence, as well as Linguistics to understand Low Realm, and Old Realm, and likely High Realm, plus any local languages. Among temple monks, I would likely make Terrestrial Martial Artists roughly 1:10 monks, and Enlightened mortals something like 1:5 monks, while among those in the Monastic Tradition, Enlightened Mortals would be more like 1:2, and Terrestrial Martial Artists something like 1:5, as Cultivation of Essence and seeking enlightenment through mastery of the Five Dragon Style are core elements of the Monastic Tradition. Temple monks should likely be more common, though in a city you should likely have one or two monasteries.


On a side note, those who AREN'T Terrestrial Martial Artist among the monks...may very well engage in other tasks than direct battle. Anathema aren't something to be taken lightly. Herding the townspeople away from a dangerous battle, ensuring the safety of the temple itself, and the like are liable to be as or more likely than charging screaming into battle with something they KNOW will kill them. It may be a good martyr's death...however multiple Anathema is NOT something they would be expected to be capable of facing...and they know it. Sending runners for help from other local temples and monasteries, watching the battle and cataloging how the monsters look and fight for later report to the Wyld Hunt, and trying to keep the townspeople from getting killed in the crossfire are more useful, sensible and safer. On the other hand, some hot heads and those who ARE Terrestrial Martial Artists likely may move to do battle.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Aha! That includes some things I hadn't considered (especially the idea of Monks herding people to safety), thank you very much!


That said, for some reason it reminded me of something i've been thinking about for a little while now, namely Virtues. Whilst most of the virtues are fairly straightforward in terms of 'what should cause my players to have to roll their virtue', i've never been entirely sure about Conviction. Does anyone have some good examples of conviction-challenging situations? (One of my players does have Conviction at 3 which is why this is of import.)

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Ah, the old 'Seeing the world through different eyes' route. I remember running a game that had a self-righteous Zenith aggressively opposing the Immaculate Order, beating up (and on several occasions, killing) Dragon-Blooded monks, demolishing temples and generally being a royal pain in the arse. All until he went into a small Realm-controlled town. They had a couple of Immaculate temples and a monastery. He went straight to the monastery, beat up/killed everyone there then went to do a repeat performance in the town. He went to the first temple, kicked in the locked and barred doors and was confronted by a single mortal monk. The monk, no more than twenty years old, was stood in front of a group of cowering men, women and children, and he had nothing by a staff to defend them.


He said, "Anathema, you come here to destroy all that does not fit into your concept of what should be. Alas, in your arrogance, you leave nothing behind you but ruin and fear. Such is the harvest of the seeds you sew. Now kill me if you must, but I shall not let you bring more harm to this place while I still move and draw breath."


The Zenith then realised that he HAD in fact made himself look monstrous by just killing, beating up and destroying, rather than attempting to covert and uncover the lies of the Immaculate Order. At that point he simply turned around and wandered away.


A player character completely changed his motivation based on the social attack of a Heroic Mortal monk.


Shame that mortal never exalted really...


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Don't suppose anyone has any further ideas for what would trigger a conviction roll?


Also, on a slightly related note, are Compassion and Conviction flaws of invincibility really as flawless as they seem? Not having something you care about nearby is very unlikely (so very easy to have an Intimacy of 'my gear' or 'my party members' or, and I almost wish one of my players had taken something as silly as this, 'the sun'. Hey, it'd at least be thematic!) and not following your motivation/intimacies is, depending on how broad they are, still very, very easy.


It's seeming like the only way to deal with combat (and I have the horrible feeling this is just the way things are) is to be very fast (to deal with flurry breakers by chasing them down) and have very accurate flurry capabilities (to just pound someone into submission) ... but even then, someone can easily stunt back the motes spend for a PD by, well, stunting the PD which would effectively auto-succeed and give them the motes back.


I don't want to cheese combat ('oh, you're facing a guy with Obsidian Shards of Infinity Style with twenty guys backing him up who will fire from hiding with implosion bows for unexpected attacks and the five-metal shrike is providing close air support whilst an angry yozi is visible on the horizon heading straight for you') but at the same time i'm just not sure how to make a good, challenging fight without having to resort to ridiculous things.


Oh, and finally, any recommendations on how to speed combat up? I'm trying to avoid any heavy houseruling of things or using homebrew systems/fixes (mostly), but it's a problem that combat does take forever. I suspect that using only a dice roller (instead of actual dice) and using the battle wheel for keeping track of the ticks might be useful, but not sure if that's enough.


EDIT: Just to add on 'speed combat up', yesterday we had a session where it took us about four and a half hours to do what was, in game-time, about 18 seconds of combat (two solars and a lunar on one side, two dragonbloods and five mortals on the other side (with the five mortals being handled, effectively, as one person in terms of choice of actions and attacks to save time). This is why i'm asking about it.


EDITEDIT because i'm forgetful: Also, thanks for the advice regarding the Immaculates! Did come in handy!

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Oh dear, seems i'm full of even more questions, but i've looked around and I cannot seem to find anything official on this (although have seen a few unofficial ideas), so:


What happens if you are wielding artifact weapons or wearing artifact armour and it suddenly deattunes?


The issue right now is a Null-Essence Grenade when used on a Grand Daiklave, a Reaper Daiklave (that's the fast one, right?) and a suit of Reinforced Breastplate.


Not sure what kind of penalties would apply, with the biggest worry being the suit of armour: At best, you could get out of it in 30 seconds, but that's 30 ticks of combat which is rather worrying, so i'm hoping for the player to be able to continue fighting with some kind of appropriate penalties.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Oh dear, seems i'm full of even more questions, but i've looked around and I cannot seem to find anything official on this (although have seen a few unofficial ideas), so:
What happens if you are wielding artifact weapons or wearing artifact armour and it suddenly deattunes?


The issue right now is a Null-Essence Grenade when used on a Grand Daiklave, a Reaper Daiklave (that's the fast one, right?) and a suit of Reinforced Breastplate.


Not sure what kind of penalties would apply, with the biggest worry being the suit of armour: At best, you could get out of it in 30 seconds, but that's 30 ticks of combat which is rather worrying, so i'm hoping for the player to be able to continue fighting with some kind of appropriate penalties.

With the armor, I'd say double the mobility and fatigue penalties and ignore the MM bonuses. With the weapons, they count as improvised weapons. For fairness, I'd also allow 'forced attunement' to artifacts, essentially the player takes a number of ticks equal to the artifact value pumping double the attunement cost into the weapon for the rest of the scene. It's expensive in terms of motes, but it stops your Invincible Sword Princess from becoming a Glorious Solar Training Dummy when their artifacts are deattuned.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Oh dear, seems i'm full of even more questions, but i've looked around and I cannot seem to find anything official on this (although have seen a few unofficial ideas), so:
What happens if you are wielding artifact weapons or wearing artifact armour and it suddenly deattunes?


The issue right now is a Null-Essence Grenade when used on a Grand Daiklave, a Reaper Daiklave (that's the fast one, right?) and a suit of Reinforced Breastplate.


Not sure what kind of penalties would apply, with the biggest worry being the suit of armour: At best, you could get out of it in 30 seconds, but that's 30 ticks of combat which is rather worrying, so i'm hoping for the player to be able to continue fighting with some kind of appropriate penalties.

With the armor, I'd say double the mobility and fatigue penalties and ignore the MM bonuses. With the weapons, they count as improvised weapons. For fairness, I'd also allow 'forced attunement' to artifacts, essentially the player takes a number of ticks equal to the artifact value pumping double the attunement cost into the weapon for the rest of the scene. It's expensive in terms of motes, but it stops your Invincible Sword Princess from becoming a Glorious Solar Training Dummy when their artifacts are deattuned.


Captain Hesperus

Hrm, these seem pretty cool! I think they should work just fine. One question, though: How do Improvised Weapons work? I can see that the corebook mentions thrown improvised weapons having damage based on their strength+athletics needed to throw them, and Solar Hero style mentions that 'A weapon is an “improvised†weapon if it has a maximum Accuracy of -3 and a maximum Rate of 2, such as a barstool, keg of brandy, omen hound or unattuned daiklave.' Beyond this, are there any official (or good unofficial) guidelines for improvised weapons?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Hrm' date=' these seem pretty cool! I think they should work just fine. One question, though: How do Improvised Weapons work? I can see that the corebook mentions thrown improvised weapons having damage based on their strength+athletics needed to throw them, and Solar Hero style mentions that 'A weapon is an “improvised†weapon if it has a maximum Accuracy of -3 and a maximum Rate of 2, such as a barstool, keg of brandy, omen hound or unattuned daiklave.' Beyond this, are there any official (or good unofficial) guidelines for improvised weapons?[/quote']
First Pulse Style uses the same stats for improvised weapons.


I think the most likely statline for a daiklave as an improvised weapon would be:


Speed 5 (6 for Grand weapons) Accuracy -3 Damage +3B (6B for Grand weapons) Defence -3 Rate 2 (1 for Grand weapons)


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hrm' date=' these seem pretty cool! I think they should work just fine. One question, though: How do Improvised Weapons work? I can see that the corebook mentions thrown improvised weapons having damage based on their strength+athletics needed to throw them, and Solar Hero style mentions that 'A weapon is an “improvised†weapon if it has a maximum Accuracy of -3 and a maximum Rate of 2, such as a barstool, keg of brandy, omen hound or unattuned daiklave.' Beyond this, are there any official (or good unofficial) guidelines for improvised weapons?[/quote']
First Pulse Style uses the same stats for improvised weapons.


I think the most likely statline for a daiklave as an improvised weapon would be:


Speed 5 (6 for Grand weapons) Accuracy -3 Damage +3B (6B for Grand weapons) Defence -3 Rate 2 (1 for Grand weapons)


Captain Hesperus

Thanks very much! I'm not too good on the mechanics side of things really, so this helps me out a lot.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

If a weapon's naturally lethal, it really shouldn't become bashing just because it's unattuned. In 1st Edition they actually allowed the use of unattuned short daiklaives as normal chopping swords with a slight penalty. Further...it's not like that sharp pointy object stops being sharp and pointy just because its become heavy.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

If a weapon's naturally lethal' date=' it really shouldn't become bashing just because it's unattuned. In 1st Edition they actually allowed the use of unattuned short daiklaives as normal chopping swords with a slight penalty. Further...it's not like that sharp pointy object stops being sharp and pointy just because its become heavy.[/quote']
Hmm, in my games, I usually ruled that it was a combination of the shape of the weapon and the Essence that is channeled into it that grants the weapon its lethal damage. Considering that daiklaves don't require any honing to maintain a razor edge, there must be some factor that the attuning Essence provides beyond lightening and harmonizing the weapon to the bearer's body. A deattuned weapon is essentially a huge, unwieldy lump of metal that is more hefted at a target than precisely aimed. The wielder would be as likely to hit with a face as an edge.


But that was how I ruled it. It meant that at a pinch a PC could disarm an NPC and then KO them with their own weapon. It also prevented someone carrying unattuned weapons and gaining the damage benefits while negating the Accuracy penalty with Specialties or Excellencies to maintain a large mote pool.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hrm. A minor question that came up when I was looking at flurrybreakers the splats have; I notice that Leaping Dodge is a Counterattack in Step 9? Just to check, although i'm aware this is probably a stupid question, does this stop you using Leaping Dodge or any other equivalent unless you're actually hit?


Counterattacks haven't come up before and i'd assume that you don't have to actually be hit to initiate a counterattack, but so far whenever there has been combat if you stop the attack in Step 2 it has just stopped there. So, for counterattacks in general, can you still make one even if you aren't hit by an attack?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Hrm. A minor question that came up when I was looking at flurrybreakers the splats have; I notice that Leaping Dodge is a Counterattack in Step 9? Just to check, although i'm aware this is probably a stupid question, does this stop you using Leaping Dodge or any other equivalent unless you're actually hit?
Counterattacks haven't come up before and i'd assume that you don't have to actually be hit to initiate a counterattack, but so far whenever there has been combat if you stop the attack in Step 2 it has just stopped there. So, for counterattacks in general, can you still make one even if you aren't hit by an attack?

To be honest, I think the Counterattack keyword was, if not wrongly placed on Leaping Dodge, then poorly chosen. The only reason it was done was so that a user would not be able to dodge, counterattack and get out of the way to avoid the rest of a flurry. There is a caveat that if a user applies their Dodge DV, they can use the Charm in Step Nine, regardless of whether they have been hit or weather they successfully dodged the attack.


Ignore the 'Counterattack' tag and just remember the text of the Charm: If you attempt to dodge, successfully or not, you may apply the charm. You cannot use Counterattack Charms in the same action. You cannot apply the Charm to attacks that are undodgeable or unexpected, without including it in a Combo that makes it applicable in these cases.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Fair enough, that makes sense.


Unfortunately, another question ... although if it helps, this is from one of my players!


Followers, Henchmen, and other hanger-on NPCs you can gain via backgrounds: How do they gain XP, if at all? Is general consensus that they should be static or should they be able to gain XP at some kind of reduced rate or even that letting them gain full XP for any session they are in is fine?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Fair enough, that makes sense.
Unfortunately, another question ... although if it helps, this is from one of my players!


Followers, Henchmen, and other hanger-on NPCs you can gain via backgrounds: How do they gain XP, if at all? Is general consensus that they should be static or should they be able to gain XP at some kind of reduced rate or even that letting them gain full XP for any session they are in is fine?

My group's take on it:


Followers - No XP awarded. Ever. They gain Trait advances only through direct intervention of the PCs (training them, using Training Charms, etc.)


Henchmen/Retainers - They gain no XP, but they may train Traits at Heroic Mortal speeds (unless they are being Charm trained). When they complete the training time, they get the Traits.


Allies - If they travel with you, they gain XP at a rate equal to the average of the rest of the group. They train and pay for Traits as per their splat.


Mentor, Contacts, Allies (who don't accompany the PCs), etc - They have what is necessary. No XP, no training.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Revoke]

Hrm. A minor question that came up when I was looking at flurrybreakers the splats have; I notice that Leaping Dodge is a Counterattack in Step 9? Just to check, although i'm aware this is probably a stupid question, does this stop you using Leaping Dodge or any other equivalent unless you're actually hit?
Counterattacks haven't come up before and i'd assume that you don't have to actually be hit to initiate a counterattack, but so far whenever there has been combat if you stop the attack in Step 2 it has just stopped there. So, for counterattacks in general, can you still make one even if you aren't hit by an attack?

You can only use one Counterattack-keyword effect per attack. That's all the keyword does; all the mechanics of how the counterattack charm is actually resolved is in the charm text.

Followers' date=' Henchmen, and other hanger-on NPCs you can gain via backgrounds: How do they gain XP, if at all? Is general consensus that they should be static or should they be able to gain XP at some kind of reduced rate or even that letting them gain full XP for any session they are in is fine?[/quote']
My ST has ruled that allies get experience for the session if they were involved and suffered the same level of danger and risk as the PC's. This seems to be working well enough. It does have the side effect that some allies will tend to get more XP than others. For instance, my PC's ally (a DB bodyguard) always gets the XP, while another PC's ally (lunar mate who mostly holds down the fort) does not.


What will work for you depends largely on how you and your players handle allies, I think. It's important that they don't just become extra PCs for the players who took them.


edit: Hesperus has the right of it in both cases.

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hrm. Alright, if this is actually detailed in a book then just pointing me at the right one would be fine, but:


What is life like in a Shadowland? What actually goes on? Is it just 'we don't go to Ravenholm' or is it the usual Creation method of things where everything is ever-so-civilized? Is it just like a normal patch of land except somewhat darker and deader and all the inhabitants are a bit cold to the touch?


Additionally, how does this affect the people who live nearby? Do they have to contend with marauding bands of the dead or do they enjoy a brisk, lively trade with their pale neighbours?


EDIT: Also, just as a quick thing, how do you define if something can be PD'd? I know that any attack or environmental effect can be PD'd (assuming it's a proper PD and not affected by 'cannot dodge the undodgable/block the unblockable/row row fight the power') but how do you define an attack?


For example, the Alchemical artifact 'Null-Essence Grenade' from earlier: It doesn't affect characters (except spirits) but it does deattune all their non-N/A artifacts out to a radius of 200 yards. Could you PD this?


Any other examples of what kind of things you can't actually PD?


Oh, and for a minor thing (for an NPC that i'm working on): War Fans, do they actually have an artifact equivalent anywhere? I know that the item they share stats with, the Wind-Fire Wheel, has Fate Rings as an artifact equivalent, but what about the War Fans?


EDITMORE: Oh, and because i'm full of questions again, can anyone advise of a good method of dealing with lots of extras without having to touch Mass Combat (which i'm told is not a very good system, and I don't really want my players having to buy War to fight against 10 people at once or anything)?


So far, a simple method i've thought of is to treat groups of enemies, when it'd be impractical to deal with them individually, as 1 'person' who has the base stats of a normal extra of that type but with an accuracy bonus of +1 per person in the group past the first and 1 HL per person in the group, with each HL being another -1 (i.e. a 5-man group would have -0/-1/-2/-3/-4) so that when you have only one person left they just have the stats of ... one person.


It's quick'n'dirty, I know, but it's just so I can toss extras in groups at the players without it instantly bogging the combat down. Also it lets them rampage through mooks at a crazy rate which I also approve of. It's not an exact method, I know, but I figure it'll work well enough.


Does it look like it'd work or does it have some horrifying glaring flaw i'm missing here?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Hrm. Alright, if this is actually detailed in a book then just pointing me at the right one would be fine, but:
What is life like in a Shadowland? What actually goes on? Is it just 'we don't go to Ravenholm' or is it the usual Creation method of things where everything is ever-so-civilized? Is it just like a normal patch of land except somewhat darker and deader and all the inhabitants are a bit cold to the touch?

Obviously, I'd direct you to the Abyssals book, both first and second ed. Second Ed goes into a lot of detail about the Deathlord-controlled shadowlands, and they are as diverse as the rest of Creation. Let's not forget, Thorns is a shadowland and it has all the amenities of a Threshold city, including theatre and the arts, as does the Skullstone Archepelego. Page 23-25 of the First Ed book details some of the mechanical effects of life in a shadowland.

Additionally' date=' how does this affect the people who live nearby? Do they have to contend with marauding bands of the dead or do they enjoy a brisk, lively trade with their pale neighbours?[/quote']
Obviously, those who live on the borders of a shadowland invest heavily in the services of thaumaturges with the Art of Ghost Warding, and are most unfriendly to people who arrive in town after sunset.

EDIT: Also, just as a quick thing, how do you define if something can be PD'd? I know that any attack or environmental effect can be PD'd (assuming it's a proper PD and not affected by 'cannot dodge the undodgable/block the unblockable/row row fight the power') but how do you define an attack?
For example, the Alchemical artifact 'Null-Essence Grenade' from earlier: It doesn't affect characters (except spirits) but it does deattune all their non-N/A artifacts out to a radius of 200 yards. Could you PD this?


Any other examples of what kind of things you can't actually PD?

A Null-Essence Grenade is an indirect, non-damaging AoE attack. I'd rule that it cannot be PD'd as it in itself is not intended to cause damage to the PD-user.

Oh' date=' and for a minor thing (for an NPC that i'm working on): War Fans, do they actually have an artifact equivalent anywhere? I know that the item they share stats with, the Wind-Fire Wheel, has Fate Rings as an artifact equivalent, but what about the War Fans?[/quote']
Heaven Thunder Leaves or Seven-Jewelled Peacock Fans (Oedanol's Codex, pgs 31-32 respectively): Heaven Thunder Leaves have the same stats as war fans, but with added bonuses, Seven-Jewelled Peacock Fans are better statted.

EDITMORE: Oh, and because i'm full of questions again, can anyone advise of a good method of dealing with lots of extras without having to touch Mass Combat (which i'm told is not a very good system, and I don't really want my players having to buy War to fight against 10 people at once or anything)?
So far, a simple method i've thought of is to treat groups of enemies, when it'd be impractical to deal with them individually, as 1 'person' who has the base stats of a normal extra of that type but with an accuracy bonus of +1 per person in the group past the first and 1 HL per person in the group, with each HL being another -1 (i.e. a 5-man group would have -0/-1/-2/-3/-4) so that when you have only one person left they just have the stats of ... one person.


It's quick'n'dirty, I know, but it's just so I can toss extras in groups at the players without it instantly bogging the combat down. Also it lets them rampage through mooks at a crazy rate which I also approve of. It's not an exact method, I know, but I figure it'll work well enough.


Does it look like it'd work or does it have some horrifying glaring flaw i'm missing here?

Sounds interesting. This would mean a fang of Elite Realm troops would have combat stats of:


Chopping Sword: Speed 4 Accuracy 13 Damage 8L/2 Defence 11 Rate 2


Health Levels: -0/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-2/-2/-4/Incap


Captain Hesperus

 

[Kami-Kaze]

Hrm. A fairly minor thing, but one that's puzzling me and I noticed again when I was looking at the rather wonderful Black Claw Style. I keep seeing, when looking at MA-stuff, references to needing tutors/Sifus/etc., however most Exalt types can usually learn them without one from what I can see.


Excluding Sidereal Martial Arts, do Celestial Exalts have any reason to get a tutor to teach them the Martial Arts or are they just as well off spontaneously learning them as per normal charms?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Hrm. A fairly minor thing, but one that's puzzling me and I noticed again when I was looking at the rather wonderful Black Claw Style. I keep seeing, when looking at MA-stuff, references to needing tutors/Sifus/etc., however most Exalt types can usually learn them without one from what I can see.
Excluding Sidereal Martial Arts, do Celestial Exalts have any reason to get a tutor to teach them the Martial Arts or are they just as well off spontaneously learning them as per normal charms?

RAW, Martial Arts can only be learnt from a teacher, since they are not native to the learner and pretty much anyone can learn them if their Essence has the capacity to internalise the flows of the Charms. Only Hero Styles (and Snake, for Solars) can be learnt without a teacher. One method I've been using with some success is a student without a teacher wanting to learn a Martial Art must perform training that emulates the core concepts of the style they are trying, i.e. stalking and ruthlessly killing prey for Tiger Style, pummelling the living sh*t out of opponents for First Pulse Style or Gun Kata for [spit]Righteous Devil Style[/spit].


Once they have completed the training ([Min MA if favoured or Min MA + Ess if non-favoured]x2) days later, they make an Int + MA roll at a difficulty of the Minimum MA trait of the Charm. Pass and they learn it, fail and they have to take another test next day. Botch means their training is flawed in some deep and fundamental way and must be started from first principles. This continues until the Form has been learned, at which point the student fully internalises the core concepts of the style and may continue learning up to the pinnacle without requiring the Int + MA rolls.


While learning a MA for which they have no teacher, until they achieve the Form Charm, they may not learn non-Excellency (or those charms which stem from them) MA Charms as the different concepts sully their growing understanding of the nascent style they are attempting to internalise.


Captain Hesperus