Mountain folk problem.

so pretty much a starting solar vs. a starting mf artisan or enlightened warrior ... the mf will win the duel most likely?


how about a starting Fairfolk noble and a Mf? or a Fairfolk noble and a Solar?
 
I hate to say this... but if you toss the average enlightened warrior agianst the average solar... as long as their the same age... the enlightened warrior will likely win.
if only because he has better acess to "Wound penalty" reducing charms.
Click to expand...
That's simply not true. Same age the solar will beat the mountainfolk/fairfolk/whatever if they have both invested the same effort into combat and probably even if the solar has invested considerably less xp into combat.


a properly desigend starting level combat solar can have about 12 combat charms. he is going to hand most fair folk or mountainfolk their asses on a golden plate.


and wound penalties are simply not the deciding factor here. 2 dice give or take. meh.
 
Fairfolk noble...if you're using the stats from the main book...mm, maybe. Enlightened MF vs a Noble FF? Depends once more. My money is on the MF though. Depends on the battle ground.


Though a Solar vs an Enlightened MF is a big iffy.
 
Well the first edition corebook solars were vastly underpowered with their charms. that's something the developers always stated and still I think a corebook solar beats a enlightened mf.


but really, the new solars easily surpass the 1e abyssals... and if you pitch an abyssal against a mf I know who i would bet me money on. and its not the mountain dude.
 
man this sucks, pretty much Mf are in an awkward position right? Too powerful to be mortal or godblooded. but two weak to be exalted. it would be hard to have a mixer.
 
Safim said:
Well the first edition corebook solars were vastly underpowered with their charms. that's something the developers always stated and still I think a corebook solar beats a enlightened mf.
but really, the new solars easily surpass the 1e abyssals... and if you pitch an abyssal against a mf I know who i would bet me money on. and its not the mountain dude.
Click to expand...
Think about that though, now I'm sure they WON'T have the power creep Abyssals had over First Ed Solars. But imagine if somehow they did  :shock:
 
well i am still planning to make a bad ass like imperial magistrate///pawn to the politics of the mf and the TE...


he is a god-blooded son of an artisan with only a taste of his heritages power running in his veins, and a penchant for painting.
 
Safim said:
Well the first edition corebook solars were vastly underpowered with their charms. that's something the developers always stated and still I think a corebook solar beats a enlightened mf.
but really, the new solars easily surpass the 1e abyssals... and if you pitch an abyssal against a mf I know who i would bet me money on. and its not the mountain dude.
Click to expand...
Think about that though, now I'm sure they WON'T have the power creep Abyssals had over First Ed Solars. But imagine if somehow they did  :shock:
Click to expand...
Well yes, but if I sense any form of powercreep in the books I am going to stop buying them out of protest. It annoyed me as a storyteller in the first edition and not having this powercreep is the premise for well written charm sections. But I am not looking at the abyssals mainly here. siderials I am watching you, 'cause that book's charm section was really poorly done. some things outstanding others abysmal (sp?). the rest of the book and the fluff was awesome... but these charms... *sigh* I nearly never used siderial charms for my npcs I nearly always gave them some custom effects 'cause I was so annoyed by them.


and then... prismatic arrangement was just idiotic. temporary essence 10... yeah yeah. mr. writer wanted to hear how cool he is, nothing else.
 
anything that makes a siddie excel (expecially the martial arts that only they should be allow to master) is good by me.
 
Safim said:
Safim said:
Well the first edition corebook solars were vastly underpowered with their charms. that's something the developers always stated and still I think a corebook solar beats a enlightened mf.
but really, the new solars easily surpass the 1e abyssals... and if you pitch an abyssal against a mf I know who i would bet me money on. and its not the mountain dude.
Click to expand...
Think about that though, now I'm sure they WON'T have the power creep Abyssals had over First Ed Solars. But imagine if somehow they did  :shock:
Click to expand...
Well yes, but if I sense any form of powercreep in the books I am going to stop buying them out of protest. It annoyed me as a storyteller in the first edition and not having this powercreep is the premise for well written charm sections. But I am not looking at the abyssals mainly here. siderials I am watching you, 'cause that book's charm section was really poorly done. some things outstanding others abysmal (sp?). the rest of the book and the fluff was awesome... but these charms... *sigh* I nearly never used siderial charms for my npcs I nearly always gave them some custom effects 'cause I was so annoyed by them.


and then... prismatic arrangement was just idiotic. temporary essence 10... yeah yeah. mr. writer wanted to hear how cool he is, nothing else.
Click to expand...
Well Siddies are specialists, I played them a bit and I did just fine with them.
 
I know this always smacks of Solar-worship, but I didn't like the implication that Siddies were so good with MA, that they were just like some sort of MA-stick that you could beat the world with.


MA is supposed to be equivalent in power to the other combat skills right?


And solars are better at the other skills than anyone, right?


So surely it makes sense to say "The Siderials are amazing martial artists. That is, they're as good as Solars."


Rather than: "Siddies are so good, they surpass solars. And as the combat skills are a matter of choice, that largely means they're just better in a fight than solars. Ergo, Solars aren't really that good anymore."


I think they should be great at MA compared to the other stuff they do. Thus, they should approach Lunars or Solars in MA strength, but not surpass them. So I didn't like it when SMA were more expensive for Solars: why not instead make MA charms for Siddies cheaper, like the same cost as for Solars? Solars should be closer to their spiritual strength by virtue of their design, so the Blossom of the Perfected Lotus should be a trivial thing for them as with Siddies.


Like I said, I'm not Solar-worshipping (I like the dirty Abyssals and Infernals..), but they're supposed to be the real cheese, so why shouldn't they?


And yea, the siddie charms were pretty shit. "I can move Mountains and Towns. I can dodge anything, kinda. I can't talk to you."


WTF? That's not specialisation; that's inconsistancy.


Siddies are silly, but the rest of the book was great. Not that it helped me when SOMEBODY decided to visit Yu-Shan; there's nothing good that you can do with that place.
 
Samiel said:
I know this always smacks of Solar-worship, but I didn't like the implication that Siddies were so good with MA, that they were just like some sort of MA-stick that you could beat the world with.
MA is supposed to be equivalent in power to the other combat skills right?


And solars are better at the other skills than anyone, right?


So surely it makes sense to say "The Siderials are amazing martial artists. That is, they're as good as Solars."


Rather than: "Siddies are so good, they surpass solars. And as the combat skills are a matter of choice, that largely means they're just better in a fight than solars. Ergo, Solars aren't really that good anymore."


I think they should be great at MA compared to the other stuff they do. Thus, they should approach Lunars or Solars in MA strength, but not surpass them. So I didn't like it when SMA were more expensive for Solars: why not instead make MA charms for Siddies cheaper, like the same cost as for Solars? Solars should be closer to their spiritual strength by virtue of their design, so the Blossom of the Perfected Lotus should be a trivial thing for them as with Siddies.


Like I said, I'm not Solar-worshipping (I like the dirty Abyssals and Infernals..), but they're supposed to be the real cheese, so why shouldn't they?


And yea, the siddie charms were pretty shit. "I can move Mountains and Towns. I can dodge anything, kinda. I can't talk to you."


WTF? That's not specialisation; that's inconsistancy.


Siddies are silly, but the rest of the book was great. Not that it helped me when SOMEBODY decided to visit Yu-Shan; there's nothing good that you can do with that place.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. I never allowed siddies any perfect effects with their martial arts, 'cause its stupid, doesn't help the siddie theme and in my opinion goes against the metaphysical laws of the gameworld.
 
That's the point. GOD!   :P  Use Hanat's saying "if you're Solar, you use your perfection to win, if you're Siddie, you break the fucking universe to win."  :lol:


I'll admit it's inconsistent, but I don't think they'll be doing much better with the new edition, *shrug*
 
Lotus said:
i would appreciate it if you designed me a warrior pattern gem then...
Click to expand...
Well, these are just from a quick skim of the Fair Folks and without S&S to reference what the actual rules on artifact creation are by power level...  So I assumed a level 5 artifact has two powers equivalent to charms requiring Essence 5 and a power can be divided into three powers equal to charms of 1 less Essence than that level (1 Ess 5 power becomes 3 Ess 4 powers, etc).  Someone feel free to correct if that scheme I'm using is way out of wack with the artifact creation rules.


=========================================


The Legend of Graceful Jade Shaper and the Talismans of the Mountain Children


Graceful Jade Shaper was an artisan of bold and wonderous vision.  He developed artifacts and wonders in directions few other Mountain Folk considered.  Of course, his thoughts led in directions few other Mountain Folk would continue to consider even if they crossed their minds briefly.  He delved into the creation of life and the evolution of power, he studied the children of Exalts, and the children of Gods, and even, though frowned on by the Council, the Children of the Mountain.  He was beautiful by human standards and found no difficulty in spreading his seed to foster his experimentation and expansion of knowledge.  It would be years before he would be discovered as a Chaos Seer...


Before that time he would have at least two children grow to brillant maturity under his tutelage and he crafted two wonderous artifacts of powers.  Whether this was a plan born of Chaos waiting to unfurl or just a little test of his craftsmanship limits he developed a way for his Half-Blood children to wear and weild the power of a a Mountain Folk.  This was the horrific breach on conduct that proved his Chaotic heart to the council and sent him to a dark cave of isolation for the remainder of his years.


There were two such artifacts made, one tuned to the soul of the Worker and one tuned to the spirit of the Warrior.  Each is a set of three lesser artifacts, though each lesser artifact is a wonder of stupendous power in its own right (each lesser piece is a level 5 artifact).  They were crafted as talismans to be implanted in their users forehead, as if a crafted castemark - a symbol of power and pride to all that behold their weilders. Each set grows in power the more pieces that the weilder has implanted.  The two sets of artifacts are identical in appearance to all but the most attentatively perceptive of essence artificers.


Each set appears as two artifacts shaped as tear drops in motion and one swirling bar that can fit between them (they look like a Yin-Yang symbol when combined).  These talismans shine with the same iridescent shimmer as a Talisman of Suspended Evocation, but with obvious overtones in each piece of different colors of jade.  In each set one tear drop is Green with a dot of Blue, while the other tear drop is Black with a dot of Red, while the inner dot and the outer edge of the tear drops are all lined in White.  The third piece in each set is a white that ripples through all other colors from the rainbow.


Were they not explicitly forbidden for use by the council, who fear whatever trap the Chaos Seer who crafted them may have left in waiting, these two sets' similarities in appearance would be cause for great concern by those that attempted to weild them.  To be implanted with pieces from differing sets causes the weilder unbearable pain as the intricate essence of the artifacts conflict within the bearer's soul. (The weilder begins to take 7 levels of aggravated damage that bypasses armor per turn unless the mismatching portions are removed.)


Each piece, once implanted, grants the wearer access to Mountain Folk charms as if the weilder had learned them personally.  This does not grant them an Essence Pool to use the charms and they must have access to one independently to make use of any charms with a mote cost.  Permanent charms are always active as they would be for any other Mountain Folk that learned them.  Though it does not cost anything to attune, the artifact's requirement of implantation would require a skilled Artisan doctor to make useful.


Whenever these artifacts grant an Ox-Body Technique they are the Mountain Folk version of Ox-Body Technique, but are supersceded by and do not stack with any versions of the charm that the weilder knows from his own essence user type.  Whenever pieces of these artifacts grant Ox-Body Technique, Essence Satiating Method, or Stone-Still Lungs they stack with versions of those charms from other pieces of the same set artifact.


Talisman of Ironsoul Evocation


Blue in Green: This piece grants the weilder Worker Patterns I and II, as well as Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, and Sensory Focus Discipline.  


Red in Black: This piece grants the weilder Worker Patterns III and IV, as well as Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, and Darkness Piercing Technique.  


-These Two Pieces Together: When these two pieces are both implanted in the weilder they grant access to Worker Pattern V.


Shining Center: This piece grants the weilder Ox-Body Technique five times, Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, Sleepless Rock Emulation, Eternal Jade Rejuvenation, and Pebble Among Boulders Technique.


-All Three Pieces Together: When all three pieces are weilded together they grant Worker Pattern Mastery and access to certain Enlightened Pattern charms; Glorious Prodigy Lesson, Upon Strands Lightly, Mien of Compassion, Mien of Conviction, Mien of Temperance, Mien of Valor, Studious Erudition Technique, and Language and Meaning Discernment.


Talisman of Steelheart Evocation


Blue in Green: This piece grants the weilder Warrior Patterns I and II, as well as Ox-Body Technique, Essence Satiating Method, and Stone-Still Lungs.


Red in Black: This piece grants the weilder Warrior Patterns III and IV, as well as Ox-Body Technique, Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, and Pebble Among Boulders Stance.


-These Two Pieces Together: When these two pieces are both implanted in the weilder they grant access to Warrior Pattern V, except for Warrior Pattern Mastery.


Shining Center: This piece grants the weilder Ox-Body Technique three times, Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, Sleepless Rock Emulation, Eternal Jade Rejuvenation, Darkness Piercing Technique, and Sensory Focus Discipline.


-All Three Pieces Together: When all three pieces are weilded together they grant Warrior Pattern Mastery and access to certain Enlightened Pattern charms; Glorious Prodigy Lesson, Upon Strands Lightly, Mien of Compassion, Mien of Conviction, Mien of Temperance, Mien of Valor, Studious Erudition Technique, and Language and Meaning Discernment.


=========================================


The biggest problem with these artifacts being made for Half-Blooded children, assuming that the scheme for breaking powers down 1 to 3 is correct, is that they don't grant the user any extra motes to spend on the charms.  If an ST wants to be really kind about it they can say that for each piece of the set a user has implanted their permenant Essence counts as one higher for the purposes of essence pool.


Another way to go would be to add a fourth artifact to each set.  It would appear as a ring of white that shimmers through all the colors of the rainbow.  If set in a characters brow it would perfectly circle this artifact or their caste mark if they had one.


Shining Circle: This piece grants the weilder an effective permanent Essence of 10 that increases the maximum temporary essence but does not allow for the purchase of charms that would otherwise not be purchasable (mimicing Soul Fire Shaper Form).  This artifact also grants access to certain Artisan Pattern charms; Unfolding Pattern Intuition, Earth-Shaping Discipline, Living Earth Meditation, Artificer's Insight, and Incomparable Forge Domain.  This version of Incomparable Forge Domain does not stack with any others the character might gain from another source.


-All Four Pieces Together: When all four pieces are weilded together they grant access to certain Enlightened Pattern charms; Thought Speech Oration, Conference of the Mind, and Incomparable Tutoring Method.


I didn't fit it in anywhere, but I think working in some kind of Divergence like corruption would be a nice touch, possibly one that grows with each piece added to make up for the lack of attunment cost.  I hope some part of that is useful for you.
 
Upaatk said:
Lotus said:
i would appreciate it if you designed me a warrior pattern gem then...
Click to expand...
Well, these are just from a quick skim of the Fair Folks and without S&S to reference what the actual rules on artifact creation are by power level...  So I assumed a level 5 artifact has two powers equivalent to charms requiring Essence 5 and a power can be divided into three powers equal to charms of 1 less Essence than that level (1 Ess 5 power becomes 3 Ess 4 powers, etc).  Someone feel free to correct if that scheme I'm using is way out of wack with the artifact creation rules.


=========================================


The Legend of Graceful Jade Shaper and the Talismans of the Mountain Children


Graceful Jade Shaper was an artisan of bold and wonderous vision.  He developed artifacts and wonders in directions few other Mountain Folk considered.  Of course, his thoughts led in directions few other Mountain Folk would continue to consider even if they crossed their minds briefly.  He delved into the creation of life and the evolution of power, he studied the children of Exalts, and the children of Gods, and even, though frowned on by the Council, the Children of the Mountain.  He was beautiful by human standards and found no difficulty in spreading his seed to foster his experimentation and expansion of knowledge.  It would be years before he would be discovered as a Chaos Seer...


Before that time he would have at least two children grow to brillant maturity under his tutelage and he crafted two wonderous artifacts of powers.  Whether this was a plan born of Chaos waiting to unfurl or just a little test of his craftsmanship limits he developed a way for his Half-Blood children to wear and weild the power of a a Mountain Folk.  This was the horrific breach on conduct that proved his Chaotic heart to the council and sent him to a dark cave of isolation for the remainder of his years.


There were two such artifacts made, one tuned to the soul of the Worker and one tuned to the spirit of the Warrior.  Each is a set of three lesser artifacts, though each lesser artifact is a wonder of stupendous power in its own right (each lesser piece is a level 5 artifact).  They were crafted as talismans to be implanted in their users forehead, as if a crafted castemark - a symbol of power and pride to all that behold their weilders. Each set grows in power the more pieces that the weilder has implanted.  The two sets of artifacts are identical in appearance to all but the most attentatively perceptive of essence artificers.


Each set appears as two artifacts shaped as tear drops in motion and one swirling bar that can fit between them (they look like a Yin-Yang symbol when combined).  These talismans shine with the same iridescent shimmer as a Talisman of Suspended Evocation, but with obvious overtones in each piece of different colors of jade.  In each set one tear drop is Green with a dot of Blue, while the other tear drop is Black with a dot of Red, while the inner dot and the outer edge of the tear drops are all lined in White.  The third piece in each set is a white that ripples through all other colors from the rainbow.


Were they not explicitly forbidden for use by the council, who fear whatever trap the Chaos Seer who crafted them may have left in waiting, these two sets' similarities in appearance would be cause for great concern by those that attempted to weild them.  To be implanted with pieces from differing sets causes the weilder unbearable pain as the intricate essence of the artifacts conflict within the bearer's soul. (The weilder begins to take 7 levels of aggravated damage that bypasses armor per turn unless the mismatching portions are removed.)


Each piece, once implanted, grants the wearer access to Mountain Folk charms as if the weilder had learned them personally.  This does not grant them an Essence Pool to use the charms and they must have access to one independently to make use of any charms with a mote cost.  Permanent charms are always active as they would be for any other Mountain Folk that learned them.  Though it does not cost anything to attune, the artifact's requirement of implantation would require a skilled Artisan doctor to make useful.


Whenever these artifacts grant an Ox-Body Technique they are the Mountain Folk version of Ox-Body Technique, but are supersceded by and do not stack with any versions of the charm that the weilder knows from his own essence user type.  Whenever pieces of these artifacts grant Ox-Body Technique, Essence Satiating Method, or Stone-Still Lungs they stack with versions of those charms from other pieces of the same set artifact.


Talisman of Ironsoul Evocation


Blue in Green: This piece grants the weilder Worker Patterns I and II, as well as Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, and Sensory Focus Discipline.  


Red in Black: This piece grants the weilder Worker Patterns III and IV, as well as Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, and Darkness Piercing Technique.  


-These Two Pieces Together: When these two pieces are both implanted in the weilder they grant access to Worker Pattern V.


Shining Center: This piece grants the weilder Ox-Body Technique five times, Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, Sleepless Rock Emulation, Eternal Jade Rejuvenation, and Pebble Among Boulders Technique.


-All Three Pieces Together: When all three pieces are weilded together they grant Worker Pattern Mastery and access to certain Enlightened Pattern charms; Glorious Prodigy Lesson, Upon Strands Lightly, Mien of Compassion, Mien of Conviction, Mien of Temperance, Mien of Valor, Studious Erudition Technique, and Language and Meaning Discernment.


Talisman of Steelheart Evocation


Blue in Green: This piece grants the weilder Warrior Patterns I and II, as well as Ox-Body Technique, Essence Satiating Method, and Stone-Still Lungs.


Red in Black: This piece grants the weilder Warrior Patterns III and IV, as well as Ox-Body Technique, Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, and Pebble Among Boulders Stance.


-These Two Pieces Together: When these two pieces are both implanted in the weilder they grant access to Warrior Pattern V, except for Warrior Pattern Mastery.


Shining Center: This piece grants the weilder Ox-Body Technique three times, Essence Satiating Method, Stone-Still Lungs, Sleepless Rock Emulation, Eternal Jade Rejuvenation, Darkness Piercing Technique, and Sensory Focus Discipline.


-All Three Pieces Together: When all three pieces are weilded together they grant Warrior Pattern Mastery and access to certain Enlightened Pattern charms; Glorious Prodigy Lesson, Upon Strands Lightly, Mien of Compassion, Mien of Conviction, Mien of Temperance, Mien of Valor, Studious Erudition Technique, and Language and Meaning Discernment.


=========================================


The biggest problem with these artifacts being made for Half-Blooded children, assuming that the scheme for breaking powers down 1 to 3 is correct, is that they don't grant the user any extra motes to spend on the charms.  If an ST wants to be really kind about it they can say that for each piece of the set a user has implanted their permenant Essence counts as one higher for the purposes of essence pool.


Another way to go would be to add a fourth artifact to each set.  It would appear as a ring of white that shimmers through all the colors of the rainbow.  If set in a characters brow it would perfectly circle this artifact or their caste mark if they had one.


Shining Circle: This piece grants the weilder an effective permanent Essence of 10 that increases the maximum temporary essence but does not allow for the purchase of charms that would otherwise not be purchasable (mimicing Soul Fire Shaper Form).  This artifact also grants access to certain Artisan Pattern charms; Unfolding Pattern Intuition, Earth-Shaping Discipline, Living Earth Meditation, Artificer's Insight, and Incomparable Forge Domain.  This version of Incomparable Forge Domain does not stack with any others the character might gain from another source.


-All Four Pieces Together: When all four pieces are weilded together they grant access to certain Enlightened Pattern charms; Thought Speech Oration, Conference of the Mind, and Incomparable Tutoring Method.


I didn't fit it in anywhere, but I think working in some kind of Divergence like corruption would be a nice touch, possibly one that grows with each piece added to make up for the lack of attunment cost.  I hope some part of that is useful for you.
Click to expand...
Oh god...*cums on his sheets* freakin "A" thats what i have been askin for, and no one would make it for me.... you just saved me the trouble of having to design it myself! YEaH


http://patternspider.net:8080/exalted/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1675


that was the thread and like everyone was a biotch about it. anywho thanks alot man i owe you!
 
now i donno if i wanna make a God-blooded (Half MF) who just had a powerful parent and naturally learned a few talents, he is a magistrate or maybe a fang shih master...


or should i make a mediocre basic half MF who happens onto one of these artifacts learns about them and is then questing to retrieve the other sister artifact...


i donno what to do!
 
one more thing on the mountain folk...


it said in the fair folk book, that enlightened under castes are rapidly increasing...


how do ou think this will effect mountain folk society.


it said quite clearly that artisians will not DARE to arrange a murder of a enlightened under caste, for fear of legal reprisal, and if they were to attempt such a thing, it would bring too big a backlash.


one possiblety is (if the great geas was alltogether breaking down) to launch an invasion on the surface, to try channeling the ambitious energies of enlightened warriors elsewhere.


Any other ideas?
 
Another idea regarding mountain folk (I'm putting it in here to avoid makinga a new thread...


Does this sound like a workable plotline to you?


A mountain folk artisian who believes the solars are destined to win... and wants to curry their favor by building artifacts for them and making arrangements subtly so they'll win quicker...
 
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