Max Abiulities and Attributes?

I would have to agree with Halfdead Frodi.  Essences is liek spiritual trancendeance and I don't think that you need a mentor necessarily for that.


If you go from certain religions trancendence can only be found on your own and there is no one single path to enlightenment.  


I think that Essence is a lot like Terrestrial and Solar level sorcery where you actually have to do it on your own.  There are just epiphanies that you reach that might or might not be reached sooner with a mentor.  I coudl even see a mentor hindering your progress by explaining things in his or her view of the world which contradicts your view and therefore you either have to relearn everyhting you already know or try to do it yourself.
 
psychoph said:
I would have to agree with Halfdead Frodi.  Essences is liek spiritual trancendeance and I don't think that you need a mentor necessarily for that.
If you go from certain religions trancendence can only be found on your own and there is no one single path to enlightenment.  


I think that Essence is a lot like Terrestrial and Solar level sorcery where you actually have to do it on your own.  There are just epiphanies that you reach that might or might not be reached sooner with a mentor.  I coudl even see a mentor hindering your progress by explaining things in his or her view of the world which contradicts your view and therefore you either have to relearn everyhting you already know or try to do it yourself.
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Agreed. But you must not eschew the figure of the mentor completely. In most mystic traditions, you do have to tread the road to enlightenment alone. However a master/mentor is usually present. Maybe not exactly as guiding figure, but usually as helping figure.


That being said, I still agree that you wouldn´t need a mentor.
 
Agreed. But you must not eschew the figure of the mentor completely. In most mystic traditions, you do have to tread the road to enlightenment alone. However a master/mentor is usually present. Maybe not exactly as guiding figure, but usually as helping figure.
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I would agree with this.  I definitely see it as potentially easier if you have a mentor to help you along the road.
 
psychoph said:
Agreed. But you must not eschew the figure of the mentor completely. In most mystic traditions, you do have to tread the road to enlightenment alone. However a master/mentor is usually present. Maybe not exactly as guiding figure, but usually as helping figure.
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I would agree with this.  I definitely see it as potentially easier if you have a mentor to help you along the road.
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Reduce the training time to 3/4 tof the listed value, maybe?
 
Yeah I would very it based ont eh character and the Mentor and the story of course.  


I have been playing Deadlands for a bout a year now and L5R and the storyteller in both tends to use the time frame of the game to determine when you can spend experience.  So if the game isn't progressing that fast you either have to hit a major downtime point to let someoen actually build up the essence, in which case i woudl rpobably just do liek a 3/4 time, or you just have to tellt eh player no and then I would almost role-paly it out how the character interacts with people and things to determine if they really have a higher grasp of reality as they are playing the character or if it will be just another dot ont he sheet.
 
Stillborn said:
psychoph said:
What are the max Abilities ans Atributes can get to?
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For Exalted, it's generally 5 or Permanent Essence, whichever is higher.


As to what the maximum Permanent Essence is, there's no universal hard limit that I know of. Alchemicals are explicitly limited to 10, so I would assume it's similar for all other Celestial Exalts.


-S
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I am absolutely certain that the Unconquered Sun and the other Celestial Incarna have an Essence of 10.  Anyone who wants to back this up with a quote is more than welcome to.  I might go look through my books later, but I doubt it.


I would count a mortal lifetime as fifty or sixty years, as in my games mortals who pass that age (barring Eastern Threshold goatherd exceptions) are frequently in decline.  Or dead.  However, I would also caution that a mortal lifetime is the time it takes for tyhe things that made you a mortal to fall away: your generation ages and dies, the things you grew up with come appart (both metaphorically and literally), your own children grow old while you stand fresh in your prime.  The things that make you a human are replaced with the tings that make you a god:  A lifespan so long it will seem, for a very long time, limitless; the knowledge that every human (and eventually every Terrestrial) you meet will live and die in what will seem more and more like a heartbeat every passing year; companions who are more often divinities than mortals.


The span of a mortal lifetime is a dramatic concept, not a literal concept, and should be treated as such.
 
However' date=' I would also caution that a mortal lifetime is the time it takes for tyhe things that made you a mortal to fall away[/quote']
That's an interesting perspective on things, and makes a bit more sense than any arbitrary number of years.


-S
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I am absolutely certain that the Unconquered Sun and the other Celestial Incarna have an Essence of 10.  Anyone who wants to back this up with a quote is more than welcome to.  I might go look through my books later' date=' but I doubt it.[/quote']
The core book actually places the Celestial Incarna at like Essence 8-9.  Of course, proving once again how much things have changed, even Lesser Elemental Dragons now range up to Essence 8, meaning it's probable the Incarna are now 10s.
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The old Forums actually talked about this at one point and I liked the suggestion more that Celestials and Primordials capped otu at 10 but that their essences couldnt' be contained in one vessel, thus why third cirlce demons have multiple concepts to them which all have certain essence values.  I woudl see the Incarna as the same they have multiple selves that are split among many essence beings or so.  


I would even go so far as to say that creation has a rule that stats that nothign with with essence more than 10 can fit into a certain amount of creation.  So that in order to exist in creation things that contain higher essence must infact disect themselves.


That is my personal perpective on things and definitely not cannon.


I think it all depends on how you want to make gods and Demons.  I could see a Greek themed game saying that Gods are limited to essence 10 making it so that an Exalted could in fact upsur a God if they felt there was cause.  That is definitely a theme i liek to play around with in my head where you run a story that the Gods have become arogant and un caring about the world and the exalted Over throw them just like the Gods over threw the primordials.
 
Stillborn said:
However' date=' I would also caution that a mortal lifetime is the time it takes for tyhe things that made you a mortal to fall away[/quote']
That's an interesting perspective on things, and makes a bit more sense than any arbitrary number of years.


-S
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I concur. Very good idea, there. Wait 'til their family dies  :twisted:


Err..what if they have an exalted parent/sibling?
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Err..what if they have an exalted parent/sibling?
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Their entire family an't be exalted, I would say that you wait for those companions and J stated and family members that are mortal to die out, but really I think he was refering to the more psychological effect that death of freinds and loved ones have on you.  I woudl point to Highlander where he goes through so many wives that at one point in time he decides to not love anymore because he can't take the loss of another loved one.
 
psychoph said:
Err..what if they have an exalted parent/sibling?
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Their entire family an't be exalted, I would say that you wait for those companions and J stated and family members that are mortal to die out, but really I think he was refering to the more psychological effect that death of freinds and loved ones have on you.  I woudl point to Highlander where he goes through so many wives that at one point in time he decides to not love anymore because he can't take the loss of another loved one.
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Yeah, but what if the only person they ever loved was their twin sister, who exalted with them? (A concept I'm working on, actually.)
 
Yeah' date=' but what if the only person they ever loved was their twin sister, who exalted with them? (A concept I'm working on, actually.)[/quote']
I'm sure they'd both die together in some situation rife with drama and angst long before they ever got the chance to increase their Permanent Essence.


-S
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Stillborn said:
Yeah' date=' but what if the only person they ever loved was their twin sister, who exalted with them? (A concept I'm working on, actually.)[/quote']
I'm sure they'd both die together in some situation rife with drama and angst long before they ever got the chance to increase their Permanent Essence.


-S
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But..but..


Aww..
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LOL.  Then you go off of the friends they make along the way.  I would say if they never ever ever make any other friends then they were never mortal to begin with because they lack compasion for others and as such probably would never get past essence 5.
 
psychoph said:
LOL.  Then you go off of the friends they make along the way.  I would say if they never ever ever make any other friends then they were never mortal to begin with because they lack compasion for others and as such probably would never get past essence 5.
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Yeah. They'll make friends, some time. I just need to find someone willing to play the other twin.
 
Re: Max Abilities and Attributes?

Stillborn said:
However' date=' I would also caution that a mortal lifetime is the time it takes for tyhe things that made you a mortal to fall away[/quote']
That's an interesting perspective on things, and makes a bit more sense than any arbitrary number of years.


-S
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I concur. Very good idea, there. Wait 'til their family dies  :twisted:


Err..what if they have an exalted parent/sibling?
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Well, with relation to your twins idea I'm not sure it makes much of a difference to what I'm saying.  Your exalted twins (thematically and aethetically pleasing, I like it) would watch their mortal relatives, their brothers, sisters, parents, nieces and nephews & cousins grow old and die.  They would watch their childhood friends and ideas grow old and die, and they would become something other than human together.  They might have the idea that humans are something lesser emphasised by their connection.


I would suggest they could become inseperable, as they only living reminder of their past lives.  Perhaps they are the only Exalts they trust implicitly.  Perhaps they will refuse to be near each other, fearing betrayal.  Perhaps (if everyone doesn't immediately jump to "ick! ick! ick!") they would become lovers.  Their transition from humans to gods would be unique as a result of their connection, but every exalt's transition should be different.  Every Exalt should shake the world.


Also, observe how I change the thread titles.  You can too people - spelling is your friend.
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Re: Max Abilities and Attributes?

psychoph said:
Err..what if they have an exalted parent/sibling?
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Their entire family an't be exalted, I would say that you wait for those companions and J stated and family members that are mortal to die out, but really I think he was refering to the more psychological effect that death of freinds and loved ones have on you.  I woudl point to Highlander where he goes through so many wives that at one point in time he decides to not love anymore because he can't take the loss of another loved one.
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Yeah, but what if the only person they ever loved was their twin sister, who exalted with them? (A concept I'm working on, actually.)
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Then you have flawed characters.  They could star in Classical Greek theater, and are well suited to dramatic endeavours.  They will still observe everything changing around them as they stay the same.  They will still become different over time, and it will likely take place over the course of a Mortal Lifespan.  There are a lot of things we take for granted as humans - for example that we will grow up, we will grow strong, and then we will grow old and we will die.  These won't happen to them.


This is getting me very interested.  The idea of losing humanity interests me, and with Exalted you have an opportunity to explore it in a compeltely different manner to V:tM.  I think there will be a game focusing around this concept some time soon.


And by some time soon, i eman when I have a few less things on my plate.  And I'll try not to get Major Head Trauma and forget the game for a few months.


*looks piteously at Andrew, Joseph, others who watched as I mysteriously vanished from Compass Spins in teh Wind*  Uh, yeah.  Sorry guys.
 
Stillborn said:
I am absolutely certain that the Unconquered Sun and the other Celestial Incarna have an Essence of 10.  
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Mask of Winters is Essence 8 in the Core, and First and Forsaken Lion is a 10 in Autochtonians, so I would hope the Incarna now have an Essence score of "YES!" or some equally grand number.
 
Crushes Skulls, Full Moon caste Lunar (CS):  "Hey, umm, Luna?  I always wondered...what's your Essence rating?"


Luna:  "Yes!"


CS:  "Huh?  How does that answer my question?  Is it 10?  12?  274?"


Luna:  "Yes!."


CS:  "But...but...I'm confused.  Which is it?"


Luna:  "YES, damnit!  Y-E-S!  YES!"


CS:  *curls into fetal position, starts whimpering*


Luna:  "Good thing I didn't exalt him for his brains or listening skills."
 
Sparkling Delight, Chosen of Serenity (SD) : "Erm... mistress? Venus? I've always wondered... just how much essence do you really hace?"


Venus : "You know that's most inpolite, after all, a girl never tells people what her essence is."


SD : "Well... the thing is... me and the boys were wondering, is all... after all... you seem so much nicer then that Unconquered Sun guy... and you know..."


Venus : "Ahh... actually as to that... we're about the same..."


SD : "Really? So what is his essence?"


Venus : "Yes!"


SD : blinks cutely, "Yes?"


Venus : nods, "Yes."


SD : "That doesn't make any sense, so what is he rated at?"


Venus : "Yes! That is all I can say."


SD : wonders off puzzled... resolving to speak to his brothers and sisters.


Venus : "Maybe, I should exalt someone with brains and not looks... nahhh..."
 
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