Lunar MA

[Balota]

Just a thought


Could you build a MA that is based on DBT and the abilities given to you by DBT Knacks. Making it really a Lunar only MA?


If so I think the hardest part would be creating the first charm needed. Not sure what that would be.


Just an Idea.

 

[Flagg]

You could make a series of Charms/Knacks that enhance a Lunar's unarmed attacks, but it wouldn't be a MA Style. Those are a special sort of creature in Exalted.

 

[Balota]

Ok time for me to feel dumb.


How are they a diffrent creature? I thought they where a series of charms that collectivly built upon one another.


that or i am missing something totally.

 

[Flagg]

Thematically, Martial Arts Styles are a path to enlightenment. Perfected Lotus and all that.


Mechanically, they are a universal, non-Exalt-specific tree of Charms which are structured in such a way as to include a scene long "form" Charm about midway through the tree. With a few exceptions, they also require initiation into the style.

 

[Balota]

Thanks that seems to be a start to my answer.


Do you mind if I read a bit more and ask questions later? Trying to make a style of fighting that works in the aspects of the lunars.

 

[Flagg]

Sure. My basic point is this: Martial Arts styles are given special treatment in Exalted. You can definitley make a bunch of fighting Charms that are Lunar-only, but they shouldn't properly be called a MA style, for clarity.

 

[Balota]

Then the question is can you make a MA style. I thought the Scroll of the Monk said you can create new styles.


Sorry for the confustion helps to learn a system to learn everything even if you do nothing with what you learn.

 

[Jukashi]

Yes, you can create new Martial Arts Styles. And a Lunar can create new Lunar Charms. But a Lunar who makes a bunch of fighting Charms, collected in a tree, that can only be used by other Lunars, has made a Lunar Charm tree, not a Martial Arts Style.

 

[Persell]

You could do a branch off of the Lunar Hero Style and have DBT tie ins.  Solar Hero Style, for example, has at least one charm that references a Solar charm, and the Exalt-Type Hero Styles are known to have expansions and, while accessible to various exalts are known to be specifically build towards one exalt over all others.


But yeah, you've hit on kinda a wierd spot with the way charms are organized, especially for lunars since Lunars don't seem to have the same expansive charm trees that solars do... you can make a MA charm tree but can't really call it a celestial martial arts style unless, at least at its foundation, it's accessible to all celestial exalts.


But who cares? It's creator might have made it specifically to thumb their nose at all those snotty Sidereals, knowing that calling it a martial arts style pisses the purists off... you don't need enlightenment to kick ass!

 

[Jeppe]

But who cares? It's creator might have made it specifically to thumb their nose at all those snotty Sidereals, knowing that calling it a martial arts style pisses the purists off... you don't need enlightenment to kick ass!

I think the Sidereals are likely to pay as much heed to that as a mortal thaumaturgist saying that he doesn't need sorcery

 

[Persell]

But who cares? It's creator might have made it specifically to thumb their nose at all those snotty Sidereals, knowing that calling it a martial arts style pisses the purists off... you don't need enlightenment to kick ass!

I think the Sidereals are likely to pay as much heed to that as a mortal thaumaturgist saying that he doesn't need sorcery

I doubt that, the sidereals fear the lunars.

 

[Haku1]

You could always create some nice dexterity and strength charms that build off of Lunar Hero Style...


Non-lunars can't learn 'em (except for moonshadows and eclipses), and you can tie them into the DBT knack. Also... if you want to, you can ALWAYS use a different combat ability with them... just like you can use martial arts with -most- of the combat charms.

 

[Persell]

Perhaps you should tell us what kind of effects you imagine, some might be easy to handle over the gift or fury keyword...

 

[Jeppe]

I doubt that, the sidereals fear the lunars.

Sure they do. But not because of their superior Kung Fu.

 

[Persell]

Lilith was one of the greatest martial artists of the golden age and she is the only signature character known for being a kickass martial artist. I don't not hear that of siddies.


People always assume chopstick is a kickass martial artist, that is not neccessarily the case.

 

[Flagg]

One would assume that at least some of the Sidereals know SMA styles, which are totally off-limits to Lilith and the other Lunars.

 

[Persell]

One would assume that at least some of the Sidereals know SMA styles, which are totally off-limits to Lilith and the other Lunars.

Well, as lilith being a superior martial artist is canon one could also assume that celstial high essence charms are superior to sidereal martial arts.

 

[Flagg]

That brings up the question: What's the point of the Sidereal Martial Arts?


That is, what is the point of having a special advanced type of Charms that is limited to only two types of Exalts, when the ones who can't learn the Charms can instead create others that are equal or better?


It seems completely superfluous.

 

[Persell]

Enlightment.


To me and the sidereals I use as storyteller sidereal martial arts are a way to find enlightment or knowledge over a certain subject.


You want to know about diseases and poisons. Study citrine poxes.


You want to know about how creation is laid out. Study prismatic arrangement of creation style.


Canonically sidereals never were going out to do combat and I guess that is the reason lilith was renowned as famous martial artist and a lot of sidereals weren't, perhaps they would have beaten lilith if it would have come to a fight, but I doubt it.


Of course, for sidereals those are the top combat charms, too, but I somehow doubt a lot of sidereals would be really martially inclined. At least in my vision of them, they work in the background mainly, sure some of them are demon hunters, but most of them live the role of the advisor up to the point where they "advise" people without the people really knowing they are there.


Mechanically sidereal martial arts are a lot better than most existing charms right now of course, because they are the only high essence charms around. But when I look at stuff like adamantine fists of battle then I can imagine that solars will easily outdo sidereals in the high essence range.


And I think the same would hold true for lunars.


In the upcoming sidereals book I'd like to see their advisor and schemer thing more in the spotlight, I'd be more than happy if the book features no or only one sidereal martial art. And the presented sidereal charms... ah well I voiced my opinon on how they should look like often enough I suppose.


Anyway, that is of course only my vision of exalted, and we all know that I am strange, my empress has no perfect defenses and is a leader and not a fighter, too ^^

 

[Jakk Bey]

That's one of the reasons I'm still overhauling the whole Enlightement thing.


Instead of basing advancement to Martial Arts, instead it's tied with Lore or Occult.  With a fair number of Enlightenment Charms that are learnable by anyone who walks the Path, and while advancement is required for Terrestrial, Celestial, and Sidereal Martial Arts, it doesn't mean that Mortals are bound to only a certain level of Enlightenment.


They are still bound by the limitations of Martial Arts, as channelling the power required for Celestial arts is too demanding for their frames, they can still gain benefit of the Enlightenment Charms.


It's still in the works though. Been busy lately, and the system is covering a lot of bases, and I still want to check out the new Martial Arts book to see if they covered any ground already.

 

[Persell]

They covered a bit of ground, but not in the extent your rework will certainly make you expect. It sounds like a promising thing, I hope you will share when it is done.

 

[Jeppe]

People always assume chopstick is a kickass martial artist, that is not neccessarily the case.

You know, as much as you continuously point out that Siddies are not the greatest fighters in the world, a fair point by the way, you cannot ignore that canonnically, they are supposed to have great martial artists. Melee is not their thing, archery and thrown aren't either, but MA is, according to canon. And there will always - always - be exceptions to any rule, including the one above. But that doesn't change the fact, that the average Sidereal is a good deal better at MA than other Exalts - on average -.


That been said, I stated my original post as an attempt at humor. I admit it wasn't the best of jokes, but I'm still working on my geek jokes. I'll let you know the minute I come up with another one

 

[Haku1]

I should note that Sidereal Martial Arts were available in the first age to Lunars.


But they lost their old SMA enlightenment methods when they got wyld-tainted.


Also, Lilith hails from the first age when every exalt and their grandmother had Martial Arts and Sorcerery. Who knows what Martial Arts style she's got stuffed into her by her "loving husband" as a project in building his 'pet'.

 

[Jukashi]

Additionally, Sidereal Martial Arts might- possibly- be weaker than high-level Celestial effects, but it's range is much broader. No other Exalt's abilities are going to allow you to transport your opponents to a fantasy world where you fight with your emotions before being sucked back into Creation.


And then push them through a mirror.


You can keep their still-beating heart, though, as a souvenier.

 

[Persell]

Canonically sidereals never were going out to do combat and I guess that is the reason lilith was renowned as famous martial artist and a lot of sidereals weren't, perhaps they would have beaten lilith if it would have come to a fight, but I doubt it.


Anyway, that is of course only my vision of exalted, and we all know that I am strange, my empress has no perfect defenses and is a leader and not a fighter, too ^^

@Jeppe: Read the whole post. thank you very much.


I nver denied that sidereals do know a lot of martial arts styles, but what you wrote about the average sidereal being a better martial artist than other celestial exalt is just nonsense. Solars got the same dice adders for MA, got better resistance, dodge whatever effects and can supplement their martial arts out of their very impressive set of standard charms.


Lunars got the dexterity excellency which is perhaps the single best excellency in the game, can shapeshift into extremely powerful animals and got a whole array of charms they can easily combo into martial arts styles.


On the top of that, solars and lunars max their peripheral essence out faster than siddies do.


Sidereals are top when it comes to developing and teaching martial arts and enlightment. But others put their stuff way better to use than themselves.