Lillun Dies. What happens next?

[Kyeudo]

Suppose that, somehow, Lillun dies. Perhaps she gets offed by a Solar or just explodes from too many Infernal Exaltations stuffed into her. How doesn't really matter. Further, Lytec is not able to convert Infernal Exaltations back into Solar Exaltations or chooses not to do so. What effects would this have on the Infernal Exaltations?

 

[Thanqol]

Ohhh, tough one.


Base effects would be that there would be no Unwoven Coadjutor for new Infernals, no Chrysalis Grotesque, and accordingly, no Torment. The Infernal Exaltations would zip around like Solar shards, no one able to catch them, and create Infernals who aren't beholden to the Yozi. Infernals who are exalted at the same moment of heroism as Solars, rather than being forced to fail. Infernals who do not have the Great Curse or any variation thereof.


In fact, that's terrifying. That's virtually a solution to all Creation's problems - you've made a bunch of exceedingly sane Celestial Exalts who are beholden to no one and nothing. Not even the system, which may be corrupt to start with.


See? See? Once again Infernals are Creation's last, best hope for victory!

 

[Sherwood]

Or, you consider that the ancinet, powerful, scheming minds of the Yozis that made this plan work in the first place have a backup ready to roll out at a moment's notice to keep a hold on their goods. There may be a minor blip in service, but overall, very little change. Just remember that the Ebon Dragon has been planning this out for millenia; he should have considered the possible consequences to having the phylactry womb kick off.

 

[Thanqol]

Or, you consider that the ancinet, powerful, scheming minds of the Yozis that made this plan work in the first place have a backup ready to roll out at a moment's notice to keep a hold on their goods. There may be a minor blip in service, but overall, very little change. Just remember that the Ebon Dragon has been planning this out for millenia; he should have considered the possible consequences to having the phylactry womb kick off.

You see your millenia-old schemer card and I play the "The Ebon Dragon is as crazy as all fuck and, quite possibly, is the jailer of the other Yozis" card.


I don't believe any force should be able to 'catch' an Exaltation on the loose. Not least because if it was possible the Great War would have ended very differently, and very messily for humanity. Once an Exaltation reaches it's 'home base', which is either Lytek's desk, it's Monstrance or Lillun, only then does it go dormant. If the Exaltation loses this 'homing point', then I believe there should be no way to create a new one - without the aid of the living Exalt which the Shard is bound to.


If it was possible to create a new one (with some Infernal-themed variant of Calling the Black Sun - IMHO the suckiest spell to ever exist and permabanned from my games; destroying a Monstrance means something, and that something is not "Which Deathlord can researach a Void spell and catch the loose shard first") - then that involves a Yozi creating a new Solar-Circle spell. Something I doubt they can do in their current state. Even if they could, well, it involves a Yozi creating a new Solar Circle spell. That's not trivial, even for a being of the Ebon Dragon's power.


And they'd better pray to whatever horrors the Primordials worship that none of their other Infernals research it first.

 

[Toloran]

Or, you consider that the ancinet, powerful, scheming minds of the Yozis that made this plan work in the first place have a backup ready to roll out at a moment's notice to keep a hold on their goods. There may be a minor blip in service, but overall, very little change. Just remember that the Ebon Dragon has been planning this out for millenia; he should have considered the possible consequences to having the phylactry womb kick off.

Honestly, I can't see that happening. More likely, they'd stand politely off to the side, twirl their monolithic mustaches, and "curse those meddling kids" for destroying their Phylactory Womb.

 

[Persell]

I don't believe any force should be able to 'catch' an Exaltation on the loose.

Obviously its at least possible, or the Yozi/Neverborn wouldn't have any Exaltations to play with in the first place.

 

[Toloran]

I don't believe any force should be able to 'catch' an Exaltation on the loose.

Obviously its at least possible' date=' or the Yozi/Neverborn wouldn't have any Exaltations to play with in the first place.[/quote']
That's kind of hard to say since they stole them from the Jade Prison so they were probably never "loose" per se.

 

[strawberryleaves]

I don't believe any force should be able to 'catch' an Exaltation on the loose.

Obviously its at least possible' date=' or the Yozi/Neverborn wouldn't have any Exaltations to play with in the first place.[/quote']
That's kind of hard to say since they stole them from the Jade Prison so they were probably never "loose" per se.

Isn't the fact that the Jade Prison was able to trap the Solar Exaltations to begin with evidence that a force can 'catch' an Exaltation?

 

[Jukashi]

The Exaltations it caught weren't really "loose". They were captured in the act of returning to Lytek's cabinet in heaven, a behavior already programmed into them.

 

[Persell]

True, but when the DL's bony-golem-whosahwhatsit cracked the Jade Prison I would say the Exaltations were definitely 'loose,' since (in my understanding) once opened they basically acted as if the host/s had just died and tried to wing it back to Yu Shan. So it would be possible to catch them, just really friggin hard even under the best circumstance (ie 300 boxed up in one place and breaking out at one time).

 

[Jukashi]

Sure you just need to set up a big net before you break it.

 

[Thanqol]

Honestly, I can't see that happening. More likely, they'd stand politely off to the side, twirl their monolithic mustaches, and "curse those meddling kids" for destroying their Phylactory Womb.

I'm laughing so hard I choked.

 

[Smeggedoff]

I don't believe any force should be able to 'catch' an Exaltation on the loose.

Obviously its at least possible' date=' or the Yozi/Neverborn wouldn't have any Exaltations to play with in the first place.[/quote']
Abyssals page 117


Call the Black Sun


A spell specifically made for catching loose abyssal exaltations and cramming them in to a new monstrance.


While it needs an arcane link or two to the target it confirms that exaltations do float around for a while and it is possible to target them.

 

[skafte]

Or, you consider that the ancinet, powerful, scheming minds of the Yozis that made this plan work in the first place have a backup ready to roll out at a moment's notice to keep a hold on their goods. There may be a minor blip in service, but overall, very little change. Just remember that the Ebon Dragon has been planning this out for millenia; he should have considered the possible consequences to having the phylactry womb kick off.

The Ebon Dragon haven't been planning this for all that long, the usupation only happened 1500 years ago, and "he" needed to find the solar shards first before he could start planning. Oh, and I'm not really sure the Green Sun Princes really is the big plan of escape the Ebon Dragon have, or just a distraction to everybody while his Empress plan is put into motion.


I think the Ebon Dragon is just as much out for beating his fellow Yozi as getting out of Malfeas.


But besides form that, I guess what Thangol said in his first post will be fairly true. You would have Infernal aspected exalted on level with solars that will not be bound to anything. If they are smart enough not to travel to Malfeas, as I'm sure they will be drawn to, they can surely do a lot of good to Creation - remind, their version of good probably is not aligned with what Yu-Shan thinks good is.


There would probably be a standing order to capture any GSP entering Malfeas so the Yozi can try to bind them to a new Lillun - probably without luck - or enslave them.


The GSP are probably the best chance the Yozi will get in a very long time, and I'm sure a few of them will be pretty desperate to get their shards back again.

 

[Chaka]

Also, let's not forget the Ebon Dragon betrays everyone, all the time. Especially the Ebon Dragon.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

I think it's because he had his LEGO's stolen earlier in life when Creation was still a gleam in Gaia and Cytheria's eyes.

 

[Thanqol]

I don't believe any force should be able to 'catch' an Exaltation on the loose.

Obviously its at least possible' date=' or the Yozi/Neverborn wouldn't have any Exaltations to play with in the first place.[/quote']
Abyssals page 117


Call the Black Sun


A spell specifically made for catching loose abyssal exaltations and cramming them in to a new monstrance.


While it needs an arcane link or two to the target it confirms that exaltations do float around for a while and it is possible to target them.

Key word there is should. Quoting myself:


"If it was possible to create a new one (with some Infernal-themed variant of Calling the Black Sun - IMHO the suckiest spell to ever exist and permabanned from my games; destroying a Monstrance means something, and that something is not "Which Deathlord can research a Void spell and catch the loose shard first") - then that involves a Yozi creating a new Solar-Circle spell. Something I doubt they can do in their current state. Even if they could, well, it involves a Yozi creating a new Solar Circle spell. That's not trivial, even for a being of the Ebon Dragon's power."


Like I said, I don't think it should be possible to do anything to a free-flying Exaltation without the assistance of the human it's bound to. Note that Exaltations in Lytek's cabinet/the Jade Prison are distinctly not 'on the loose'.

 

[Thanqol]

Also, lets not forget the Ebon Dragon betrays everyone, all the time. Especially the Ebon Dragon.

One of the most quotable quotes I've yet encountered. Awesome.


Following up on an earlier note on this theme: It's quite possible the Ebon Dragon's job is to keep the rest of the Yozis imprisoned forever. It's quite possible he is their jailer.


He probably doesn't know this consciously, or it was part of some deal he made with the Exalted not to be mangled into an inhuman wreck like the rest of the Primordials, but who better to task with the role of keeping these guys locked up forever than the guy trying to get them out? This could be woven into his very nature too, in the same way one of Malfeas' second circle demons is the guy who's always doomed to epic, heroic failure. That demon is part of what defines Malfeas, part of what defines Liger, and sure as Celcyne he wasn't around before the Great War.


It's quite probable that the Ebon Dragon, before the War, was only a dick sometimes (see my post: The Other Side of the Story) and was generally an up-and-up guy. When the Exalted mutilated him, they made him an indiscriminate dick - who better to fuck up every plan designed to get the Yozis as a whole out?

 

[Kyeudo]

That would work except for the fact that the Ebon Dragon is claustrophopic. In fact, he probably invented claustrophobia before he invented freedom. Being chained is so anti-thetical to the Ebon Dragon's nature that its amazing that he surrendered in the first place.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Yozis unable to create Solar circle spells? I don't think so. Quite the opposite. It's rather clear that Sorcery comes from them originally in the first place. Infernal Sorcery lets ANYONE who can learn it, even a Mortal Akuma, gain access to the Solar Circle. The Yozis most certainly can create and use Solar level Sorcery.

 

[Chaka]

That would work except for the fact that the Ebon Dragon is claustrophopic. In fact, he probably invented claustrophobia before he invented freedom. Being chained is so anti-thetical to the Ebon Dragon's nature that its amazing that he surrendered in the first place.

It was all part of his cunning plan to backstab himself to prevent himself from undercutting his cunning plans, you see.

 

[Kyeudo]

Yozis unable to create Solar circle spells? I don't think so. Quite the opposite. It's rather clear that Sorcery comes from them originally in the first place. Infernal Sorcery lets ANYONE who can learn it' date=' even a Mortal Akuma, gain access to the Solar Circle. The Yozis most certainly can create and use Solar level Sorcery.[/quote']
Depends on which chapter you take as official. I go with the "one circle up" version presented in the Akuma chapter, rather than the one in the Charms chapter.

 

[Thanqol]

Yozis unable to create Solar circle spells? I don't think so. Quite the opposite. It's rather clear that Sorcery comes from them originally in the first place. Infernal Sorcery lets ANYONE who can learn it' date=' even a Mortal Akuma, gain access to the Solar Circle. The Yozis most certainly can create and use Solar level Sorcery.[/quote']
I'm not saying they're not excellent at Sorcery (they are), or that they didn't invent it (they did), or that they don't have vast stores of knowledge available to them (they do)...


... I'm saying that they might not be able to create new spells as part of their binding agreement. Particularly not new spells related to fucking up the Exalted.

 

[Thanqol]

That would work except for the fact that the Ebon Dragon is claustrophopic. In fact, he probably invented claustrophobia before he invented freedom. Being chained is so anti-thetical to the Ebon Dragon's nature that its amazing that he surrendered in the first place.

Which is the perfect cover.


Remember, the Exalted didn't ask his permission. They cut his goddamn soul out, moulded it like play-dough, and shoved it back in the same general place. Forceful, massive-scale alterations to his nature were enforced. They made the Ebon Dragon his own jailer, his own chains, because he's the only one who could possibly slip free.

 

[Smeggedoff]

Obviously its at least possible' date=' or the Yozi/Neverborn wouldn't have any Exaltations to play with in the first place.[/quote']
Abyssals page 117


Call the Black Sun


A spell specifically made for catching loose abyssal exaltations and cramming them in to a new monstrance.


While it needs an arcane link or two to the target it confirms that exaltations do float around for a while and it is possible to target them.

Key word there is should. Quoting myself:


"If it was possible to create a new one (with some Infernal-themed variant of Calling the Black Sun - IMHO the suckiest spell to ever exist and permabanned from my games; destroying a Monstrance means something, and that something is not "Which Deathlord can research a Void spell and catch the loose shard first") - then that involves a Yozi creating a new Solar-Circle spell. Something I doubt they can do in their current state. Even if they could, well, it involves a Yozi creating a new Solar Circle spell. That's not trivial, even for a being of the Ebon Dragon's power."


Like I said, I don't think it should be possible to do anything to a free-flying Exaltation without the assistance of the human it's bound to. Note that Exaltations in Lytek's cabinet/the Jade Prison are distinctly not 'on the loose'.

Sorry, I scanned the thread quickly and missed your initial dismissal of CtBS.