Quchu
One Thousand Club
Ahahaha what the fuck 
Keychains 196 through 200
- Thread starter ShadowDragon8685
- Start date
My new favorite thing about this strip (upon seeing it again today while waiting for the new one to pop up) is the way Karen and Ten Winds are both sitting in the same cross-legged pose. Presumably, this is because they've both trained in some of the same martial arts styles and essence-focusing meditation exercises.
It's that sort of subdued, trivial stuff that makes a world seem coherent. I approve heartily, and hope for some Karen v Ten training time later on. I'm especially hoping for a time where Karen (presumably the only one in the party other than Ten with enough dice to the Int+Martial Arts rolls) realizes "Dragonblooded martial arts can't do that..." but can't tell anyone because she lost her voice to Berengiere.
...Which is all part of the Yozis' grand master plan for Ligier (disguised as a Sidereal disguised as a Dragonblood) to steal the keys to their prison!
It's that sort of subdued, trivial stuff that makes a world seem coherent. I approve heartily, and hope for some Karen v Ten training time later on. I'm especially hoping for a time where Karen (presumably the only one in the party other than Ten with enough dice to the Int+Martial Arts rolls) realizes "Dragonblooded martial arts can't do that..." but can't tell anyone because she lost her voice to Berengiere.
...Which is all part of the Yozis' grand master plan for Ligier (disguised as a Sidereal disguised as a Dragonblood) to steal the keys to their prison!
krrackknut
Member
Just what we're due! Some much-needed funny!
Tikor
One Thousand Club
Truthfully, the storytelling was so excellent in the last several comics I didn't miss the funny at all.krrackknut said:
ShadowDragon8685
Elder Member
Just what you said. Just because the story is delivered in a medium normally reserved for cheap gags doesn't mean it can't be dead-seriousand devoid of cheapness and still be good.Tikor said:
Not that I'll complain about a gag.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
You need balance, though. How far can I push drama before it collapses, in this medium? Tackling issues that are very serious for people in real life just can't be done with stick figures, at least without being disrespectful and silly (in a bad way). What I'm hoping is that, as the comic occasionally steps up gear to deliver its punches, the innate ridiculousness of the setting will outmatch this effect; that the problems will be of the sort that are serious, but not faced by any real people.
By the way, does anyone have any tips on how to think like a manipulative bastard? It's getting tricky setting up my villains' plots.
By the way, does anyone have any tips on how to think like a manipulative bastard? It's getting tricky setting up my villains' plots.
Kyeudo
One Thousand Club
I have to cheat. I get my players to tell me their plans, decide that the villian is smart enough to have accounted for that, and then see if I can make what they do further the villian's plan in some way.
Smeggedoff
Elder Member
work backwards? decide what the villain wants the party to do, figure out why the part would do that (preferably of their own volition because they think it's a good idea), determine how the villain subtly steered them into deciding that this was the thing to do.
Xanatos Gambit made easy.
course it helps when you control the players and party and can work it out ahead of time, trickier to pull of in real time
Xanatos Gambit made easy.
course it helps when you control the players and party and can work it out ahead of time, trickier to pull of in real time
Read the Evil Overlord list? It's what I do whenever I'm STing a manipulative bastard.
I also find it handy to make lists of the people I know, and what I know about them (weaknesses, strengths, potential uses I might have for them, who they're dependent on, and the like) so I can figure out the dynamics of social groups and exploit their connectiosn to one another. If I'm playing a manipulative bastard, anyway.
I also find it handy to make lists of the people I know, and what I know about them (weaknesses, strengths, potential uses I might have for them, who they're dependent on, and the like) so I can figure out the dynamics of social groups and exploit their connectiosn to one another. If I'm playing a manipulative bastard, anyway.
ShadowDragon8685
Elder Member
That's... Really not true at all.Jukashi said:
There was a time when people regarded the same with cartoons - that you can't use them to tackle serious issues without being disrespectful and irreverently silly. Then along came anime, and sure there's silly anime, there's also goddamn dark and serious anime.
If anyone in the world can push stick figures to be drama-riffic, it's you. KoC is the right tool, you're the right weilder, and now is the right time. Go for the gold! Yours is the Webcomic that will pierce the Drama Barrier!
Okay, that was me being a bit silly.
But the point remains that KoC does monumentally awesome when it's being serious.Read the Evil Overlord List. And for the Falaffel, assuming he knows about Misho and crew...
Goal: Acquire the Keys of Creation.
Problem: You don't know where they are.
Soloution: Thrice-Radiant Misho knows where they are.
Problem: You probably don't have any agents skilled enough to actually shadow them and get the Keys after the check them.
Soloution: Convince them that you do know, and that they only way to safeguard the keys is to personally collect them.
Problem: Once they have the keys, you'll have a hell of a time getting them from them
Soloution: Convince them that you're preparing to go through that hell of a time anyway, to convince them they need to put the keys somewhere else, somewhere 'safe'.
Problem: Misho probably knows where all the good hiding spots in Creation are.
Soloution: Scope out the good hiding spots ahead of time. Convince him that you already know where they are, and that they will thus need to use a new hiding spot.
Problem: Misho and his crew will find a good new hiding spot.
Soloution: Be the one who invents the hiding spot they use, tailor it to seem absolutely perfect, and put the pressure on them that they have to dump the keys and run.
There you go. The good guys do all the work for you, you just walk in and literally pick up the keys to Ultimate Cosmic Power.
Arthur
One Thousand Club
While I don't completely disagree with ShadowDragon180273094, I think that putting too much real life into the KoC would be both ineffective and pointless. I do concur with him that KoC can have a very serious plot, with spontaneous but not cheesy humour, and still be extremely interesting. I wouldn't please me to see a realistic, dramatic comic, but I don't particularly like joke-for-joke's-sake comics as Monday's was.ShadowDragon8685 said:
ShadowDragon8685
Elder Member
Four numbers, eight, six, eight, five.Arthur said:
8685! Is it really that hard to remember? Or hell, to look at the post you were making?
Do you think I chose those numbers on a fucking whim? Do you think they're random and I don't care about them? You'd be wrong on both counts! Really! >_<
Smeggedoff
Elder Member
Chillax? CHILLAX?Brickwall said:
The language you just butchered left letters you know, letters to watch you Mr. Wall. With their I's
Balance is good, Jokes for jokes sake should be left for filler if you really need to make them as they end up breaking the flow, especially in the case of terrible puns, bad Jukashi, no biscuit.
The problem is a lot of the time, people worry about the balance too much and end up sacrificing meaningful storylines just to get back to the lulz
for instance I was reading through the Sinfest archives recently and got to the storyline where Slick finally asks Monique out on a date and begins to reform and experience character growth, only to have the whole thing ruined and sent back to squre one by a comedy misunderstanding he had no part in or tried to rectify afterwards because oh, "LOL Slcik r teh pimp and neeq iz a slut olololololol"
god only hopes it doesn't get pulled again with Fuschia and Criminy
blah
That said you're doing a bang up job so far Jukashi, I'm sure people will understand when Comedy has to take the back seat to comedy for a while
Lord Kamina
Not an engineer.
While I don't particularly mind some storyline in the name of awesomness inside KoC, I think that often webcomic makers delude themselves with their plot. Most people want to read webcomics like they read strips in the newspaper... a bit of random fun. KoC has been pretty shitty lately (The present arc has been pretty good but the whole Nova arc was TERRIBLE, and it lasted FOREVER), I know at least a handful of people who either stopped reading the comic or were very close to (myself included) for just that one arc...
So... I like the story a bit (I particularly like exaltation scenes in general), but I think overall I liked KoC better at the beginning when it was more about witty, standalone Exalted jokes.
So... I like the story a bit (I particularly like exaltation scenes in general), but I think overall I liked KoC better at the beginning when it was more about witty, standalone Exalted jokes.
ShadowDragon8685
Elder Member
I must respectfully submit my opinion that everything lord Kamina has just wrote is bollocks.
I don't want to read webcomics like I read rag-comics. A rag comic is inherantly forgettable, a throwaway gag to create a brief, momentary glimmer of mirth before starting your workaday hell of a life.
I like webcomics like, say, Schlock Mercenary, or Order of the Stick, or The Adventures of Dr. McNinja, or Freefall, or... Well, KoC.
Yes, these comics bring the funny. Yes, they sometimes work in the lamest of lame puns, the most groany of jokes, but they take themselves seriously, and do phenomenally well.
Oh, and the Nova arc? Was just fine. Really, anyone who'd stop reading over that, you're better without them anyway.
I don't want to read webcomics like I read rag-comics. A rag comic is inherantly forgettable, a throwaway gag to create a brief, momentary glimmer of mirth before starting your workaday hell of a life.
I like webcomics like, say, Schlock Mercenary, or Order of the Stick, or The Adventures of Dr. McNinja, or Freefall, or... Well, KoC.
Yes, these comics bring the funny. Yes, they sometimes work in the lamest of lame puns, the most groany of jokes, but they take themselves seriously, and do phenomenally well.
Oh, and the Nova arc? Was just fine. Really, anyone who'd stop reading over that, you're better without them anyway.
Kyeudo
One Thousand Club
QFT.ShadowDragon8685 said:
Seriously, a storyline is what makes KoC awesome. Without one, I wouldn't be reading this comic.
Quchu
One Thousand Club
I like plots in my webcomics, but that's mostly because I'm a huge gayfag for storytelling in general under any medium. One thing the comic form has got going is that they lend extremely well to humor and it'd be a waste to drop that or even not have that as the main focus, in most cases. I think KoC is maintaining a good balance between the two--though I have to say that I didn't enjoy House Rules arc that much. But that was because I thought the plot was being too stretched out... which was related to Jukashi having a life and being able to get sick. Damn it, Jukashi. Why you gotta be like that?
...so maybe the complaint is with the pacing rather than the plot content?
...so maybe the complaint is with the pacing rather than the plot content?
Lord Kamina
Not an engineer.
I don't give a shit about your opinion either way, to be honest.ShadowDragon8685 said:
Arthur
One Thousand Club
I deeply enjoy well thought of plots in comics like Keychain, that have things like a storyline, character depth, etc. (but I wouldn't like it in, say, Sinfest, Penny Arcade or Basic Instructions). I do agree, however, that the Nova arc was less than enjoyable.
Kyeudo
One Thousand Club
The fight scenes with Kitty Nova weren't the best, but Ten Winds vs Nova was awesome and Blossom and her signs were the single funniest moment in the comic for me.
Lord Kamina
Not an engineer.
I hated Nova, as a character and as an idea, from beginning to end. And it lasted FOR FUCKING EVER.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
Just to say? I was disappointed in the Nova arc myself, even though I found a lot of fun in the minutiae. The problem was that it was too big. The story wasn't suited to the format it had to be presented in - I drew inspirations for the fight more from anime and video games and, of course, what takes a handful of seconds to show in one of those took weeks in comic time. I tried to make up for it by making each comic page enjoyable in itself, but taking the time to do that made the whole affair longer.
I can only hope that I'll be able to avoid it next time.
I can only hope that I'll be able to avoid it next time.
Lord Kamina
Not an engineer.
I've been known to passionately hate popular anime concepts such as catgirls and android girls... I'm sure you can put it together.