Mr. Cowboy
Christ conquers! Christ reigns! Christ commands!
As far as I am concerned, we're part of the human race.
Advice/Help Is it okay to roleplay as characters that aren't a part of your race/ethnic group?
- Thread starter le-toose
- Start date
Phantom Thief of Hearts
We live in the Metal Gear timeline
Amen to that.
Prince Lutin
Not one of your FAAAAAAAANS!
I think it's okay as long as you're respectful and don't play into stereotypes. Even though I'm white, I have characters of many different races and I've RPed as characters of different races on other sites. I make sure to treat everyone respectfully regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc. I'm bisexual, but I don't have a problem with straight people RPing as LGBT characters. And I'm autistic and I'm fine with neurotypical people RPing autistic characters.
Keep in mind that whether or not someone will be offended depends on who you're asking. I might not be offended by a neurotypical people RPing an autistic character, but other autistic people might be.
Keep in mind that whether or not someone will be offended depends on who you're asking. I might not be offended by a neurotypical people RPing an autistic character, but other autistic people might be.
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The Waluigist Priestess
Try Our Hot Wings! MMM! SPICY!!!
I have an OC set, one is supposed to be me and the other her bff, the one of me is white like me, but her bff is darker, and the bff is as properly represented as I can get. I do my research before I make a character of another race, and make sure I check my facts regularly.
Humble1
Archives Rat
I like how the PbtA game "Urban Shadows" actually challenges players to play as a different race/class/gender/orientation. It starts off by complaining about how very monochrome the urban fantasy genre is, points out that this conflicts with the very idea of "urban" fantasy, and then asks the group to strive for diversity in the group:
...bold of you ...
as long as you do your research and remember that they're human before they're whatever race you write them as
i also suggest doing your proper research on the culture/ethnicity so you don't write an asian character with two DIFFERENT asian ethnicities' surnames instead of one surname and a given name from the same one like a certain famous fantasy author did because... yikes
going off this very example, i always research countries' naming laws if i plan on making oc from that place; this is actually how i found out germany has some pretty unique laws than the normal american ones i'm used to haha
i also suggest doing your proper research on the culture/ethnicity so you don't write an asian character with two DIFFERENT asian ethnicities' surnames instead of one surname and a given name from the same one like a certain famous fantasy author did because... yikes
going off this very example, i always research countries' naming laws if i plan on making oc from that place; this is actually how i found out germany has some pretty unique laws than the normal american ones i'm used to haha
Jannah
Barely holding on.
Are you referring to Cho Chang or is there another character you're thinking of?
yup that one
nerdy tangents
One Thousand Club
For names I found the easy solution is best. Literally just google “Most popular names in Place at Time.”
you might end up with the equivalent of John Smith but chances are your partner won’t know the difference. And if they do I would prefer John Smith then Zatanna Toast.
At least one is a name real people would have.
you might end up with the equivalent of John Smith but chances are your partner won’t know the difference. And if they do I would prefer John Smith then Zatanna Toast.
At least one is a name real people would have.
cuzn
:)
of course! i'm saying this with the experience of being black, and there's nothing wrong with writing someone of a different race than yourself, as long as you handle it properly. by handling it properly, all i really mean is treating them the same as you treat your other characters. it's pretty easy to not be racist towards your ocs, as a matter of fact; as long as you treat them like normal characters, it just happens naturally most of the time. their race doesn't count as a personality trait, but that's basically the biggest thing people need to know beforehand.
and this is delving into my personal opinion here, but i think the idea of "white people shouldn't write poc characters" is... stupid. it's narrow-minded to think that a character needs special treatment just because they happen to be not-white. of course, i can sort of understand it, but at the same time all that does is make it so that white people can only rp white people, and that isn't a good look, either.
diversity is important, but it shouldn't be forced or tokenized. at the same time, it absolutely shouldn't be hindered by something as superficial as the racial background of the writer who is creating these characters. anyone can be a good writer with a good cast of characters, regardless of their race.
and this is delving into my personal opinion here, but i think the idea of "white people shouldn't write poc characters" is... stupid. it's narrow-minded to think that a character needs special treatment just because they happen to be not-white. of course, i can sort of understand it, but at the same time all that does is make it so that white people can only rp white people, and that isn't a good look, either.
diversity is important, but it shouldn't be forced or tokenized. at the same time, it absolutely shouldn't be hindered by something as superficial as the racial background of the writer who is creating these characters. anyone can be a good writer with a good cast of characters, regardless of their race.
GojiBean
Your resident irradiated Kaiju King
I'm a bit late to the party, but the notion that "white people shouldn't RP biopic characters because they'll misrepresent and mistreat them" is absolutely ridiculous.
As but a single example: The vast majority of black super heroes were conceived of and written for by... Wait for it... White people. Yet you'll find very few people who vocally complain about them being "mistreated" or "misrepresented." In fact it's quite the opposite. Most people love black super heroes because of who they are and what they stand for rather than their skin color or where they're from in the world.
In the end, what matters in an RP is the lore.
What does the lore say about characters with different skin colors? Where are they located in the world? How do they live? How do they speak? What's the culture like? How do they interact with each other and with other people around them who are from different regions, ethnic background, cultures, etc?
The lore which defines the "why" in the world and everything in it is everything in storytelling.
So long as someone is adhering to the lore of the RP and playing the character appropriately according to the lore and culture provided, they're not "misrepresenting" or "mistreating" them.
Unless it's a modern real-world RP taking place in a specific part of the world and meant to be taken as realistically as possible, anyone paying more attention to skin color than RP lore is either ignorant to what's really important in storytelling and role-playing, or just looking to stir up racial tensions and cause trouble.
Cheers!
~ GojiBean
As but a single example: The vast majority of black super heroes were conceived of and written for by... Wait for it... White people. Yet you'll find very few people who vocally complain about them being "mistreated" or "misrepresented." In fact it's quite the opposite. Most people love black super heroes because of who they are and what they stand for rather than their skin color or where they're from in the world.
In the end, what matters in an RP is the lore.
What does the lore say about characters with different skin colors? Where are they located in the world? How do they live? How do they speak? What's the culture like? How do they interact with each other and with other people around them who are from different regions, ethnic background, cultures, etc?
The lore which defines the "why" in the world and everything in it is everything in storytelling.
So long as someone is adhering to the lore of the RP and playing the character appropriately according to the lore and culture provided, they're not "misrepresenting" or "mistreating" them.
Unless it's a modern real-world RP taking place in a specific part of the world and meant to be taken as realistically as possible, anyone paying more attention to skin color than RP lore is either ignorant to what's really important in storytelling and role-playing, or just looking to stir up racial tensions and cause trouble.
Cheers!
~ GojiBean
Daisie
Seared with story
Mildly playing devil's advocate against this, even though I wholeheartedly agree with everything said...
One could argue that those are professional writers, whereas roleplay contains a lot broader of a demographic, and therefore there is more leeway for mistakes to be made.
I do agree though that we shouldn't be assuming that all white people are gonna botch representation. Let's not throw a whole group of people in jail on the assumption that they MIGHT commit a crime.
GojiBean
Your resident irradiated Kaiju King
Very true, and well said.
Racial representation is a really touchy topic for many, many people. And I can see where that notion came from.
However, as you said, nobody should be willing to generalize that an entire ethnic group is going to do something wrong just because it can happen, because the reverse is always true as well.
Jannah
Barely holding on.
Speaking as white person who frequently writes non-white characters (as well as white ones from various ethnic groups) I'd like to think I haven't botched it too badly. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if you're trying to represent a specific culture you're unfamiliar with then this is where research can be useful. I know, it can be a lot of work, especially for a RP, but it does help. This applies to anything in writing and RP, really: sexual orientation, mental illness, certain personality traits, etc.
Of course, if one wants to write non-white characters in a story then their entire experience and personality should not be about any potential racism they face. They should be interesting and developed characters in their own right, rather than just some tool to drive some further narrative (namely one about racism). If racism is a part of the setting (this is true in a lot of historical settings) then that should not be ignored either. I think, really, what others are looking for in the portrayal of non-white characters is a sense of realism and avoidance of heavy reliance on stereotypes. If the one black character in a story happens to be the only character in the story who is a drug dealer then someone might take offense to that. However, if it's a story specifically about the criminal underground and all the characters present happen to be drug dealers regardless of race then that may be a bit more acceptable.
Any actual POC can feel free to correct me on any of this.
Of course, if one wants to write non-white characters in a story then their entire experience and personality should not be about any potential racism they face. They should be interesting and developed characters in their own right, rather than just some tool to drive some further narrative (namely one about racism). If racism is a part of the setting (this is true in a lot of historical settings) then that should not be ignored either. I think, really, what others are looking for in the portrayal of non-white characters is a sense of realism and avoidance of heavy reliance on stereotypes. If the one black character in a story happens to be the only character in the story who is a drug dealer then someone might take offense to that. However, if it's a story specifically about the criminal underground and all the characters present happen to be drug dealers regardless of race then that may be a bit more acceptable.
Any actual POC can feel free to correct me on any of this.
Yes you can, but you definitely want to do some research about it first. If you are willing to write a character of a different race/ethnicity then you should put in the effort and time. That doesn't mean watching 15 minutes of some Hollywood-esque movie that allegedly is based on true facts. Avoiding stereotypes means to understand what those are. It's simple. Sometimes the issue is some people don't want to put in the work and get upset when they are called out about it.
The Great Sage
The Storyteller
I think it's fine, and on top of that I think that playing into stereotypes is fine too as long as it doesn't cross the line into hate, and my tolerance for that kind of stuff is very high.
I'm a white guy that was raised in a place where I was the ethnic minority (being the only white person besides my parents for hundreds of miles) which I think gives me a particularly strange perspective on this issue. Broadly speaking;
Poking fun at supposed cultural habits or paradigms is fine. Making fun of physical traits that are exaggerated or diminished within a certain ethnic group is fine.
Not giving a guy a job because he's the wrong colour is not fine.
I'm a white guy that was raised in a place where I was the ethnic minority (being the only white person besides my parents for hundreds of miles) which I think gives me a particularly strange perspective on this issue. Broadly speaking;
Poking fun at supposed cultural habits or paradigms is fine. Making fun of physical traits that are exaggerated or diminished within a certain ethnic group is fine.
Not giving a guy a job because he's the wrong colour is not fine.
nerdy tangents
One Thousand Club
I think a good way to look at it is this :
People are obsessed with their “default” characters being unique. Because a vast majority of characters are cishet white characters you have to work hard to make yours stand out. Sometimes that means falling into stereotypes. Sometimes that means writing a character that has a personality or backstory you are unfamiliar with.
The best way to write non cishet white people is to recreate that dynamic.
Don’t just make a token minority character and expect that to be “unique” enough that your character stands out. Create a whole community of minority characters and give them different personalities or motivation.
That way even if a few of the characters are a little more one note or stereotypical you are acknowledging they are not a monoliths.
I also second the recommendation of research, if nothing else so you can realize which stereotypes are actively harmful and why.
People are obsessed with their “default” characters being unique. Because a vast majority of characters are cishet white characters you have to work hard to make yours stand out. Sometimes that means falling into stereotypes. Sometimes that means writing a character that has a personality or backstory you are unfamiliar with.
The best way to write non cishet white people is to recreate that dynamic.
Don’t just make a token minority character and expect that to be “unique” enough that your character stands out. Create a whole community of minority characters and give them different personalities or motivation.
That way even if a few of the characters are a little more one note or stereotypical you are acknowledging they are not a monoliths.
I also second the recommendation of research, if nothing else so you can realize which stereotypes are actively harmful and why.
Baphomet
Baphomet
100% it absolutely is! RPing is a form of writing. Imagine telling the author of a book they can't include characters of races/genders/species different from their own. You'd have a book filled with nothing but Asian women for one book and Indian men for another. It's absolutely ludicrous! I often create characters outside of my gender and race. In fact, I rarely create any character that is similar to me.
Don't let anyone tell you what you can and can't RP as. You create the character you want to play as. Of course, as long as it fits within the story of the RP.
Don't let anyone tell you what you can and can't RP as. You create the character you want to play as. Of course, as long as it fits within the story of the RP.
The Great Sage
The Storyteller
Meet the creature known as Zack; he is composed of slime and goo and is amorphous in shape. His thoughts are simple and revolve mostly around apple pie and vanilla ice cream. Sometimes he gets ants trapped in his slime and he plays a perverse game of The Sims with them. A shy creature by nature, Zack will try to form a ball and roll away should you try to approach. Beware his potent allergens.
^-- This is what I want to play as in real life.
Nihilum
HONEEEEYY? WHERE'S MY SUPER SUIT?!
I've always found it weird that people worry so much about this. For me, a character's race is as insignificant as their hair color or eye color. If I make a Japanese character, their ethnicity isn't really that important when I'm doing a cyberpunk RP. Same with a Native Hawaiian. They're not going to walk around giving monologues about their cultural history when they're busy getting chewed on by zombies. I guess I could see the significance if you're doing a historical RP or a modern one involving the plights faced by that ethnic group, but otherwise, I don't get the fuss...? It sort of reminds me of that thing where people say they can't write gay characters because they don't understand them. They're literally just the same as you or me. Write them the same way you would anyone else.
I mean. The alternative is having a bunch of straight, white characters. That seems pretty counterproductive to inclusivity and diversity. Focusing so much on a character's race (and trying to make it 90% of their personality) just brings us to the dilemma of 'making token characters to be woke.'
...Most of the time my characters' skin tones or race are decided by a general setting or just what looks best with their design. And the fact that pasty white skin is, for whatever reason, a nightmare to color.
I mean. The alternative is having a bunch of straight, white characters. That seems pretty counterproductive to inclusivity and diversity. Focusing so much on a character's race (and trying to make it 90% of their personality) just brings us to the dilemma of 'making token characters to be woke.'
...Most of the time my characters' skin tones or race are decided by a general setting or just what looks best with their design. And the fact that pasty white skin is, for whatever reason, a nightmare to color.
The Great Sage
The Storyteller
I donno.
Would Harry Potter have been the same story if the characters were all Zulu and not British? What about American? Russian?
There's even a poignant scene in the middle of Goblet of Fire where the different schools with their unique cultural backgrounds arrive in their own special way. I think that trivializing a person's culture is a wasted opportunity. There is a lot that can be done by leaning on ethnic stereotypes or cultural history.
Would Harry Potter have been the same story if the characters were all Zulu and not British? What about American? Russian?
There's even a poignant scene in the middle of Goblet of Fire where the different schools with their unique cultural backgrounds arrive in their own special way. I think that trivializing a person's culture is a wasted opportunity. There is a lot that can be done by leaning on ethnic stereotypes or cultural history.
Nihilum
HONEEEEYY? WHERE'S MY SUPER SUIT?!
I wouldn't call it 'trivialization' as much as I would 'there's a right time and a right place'. Most horror genres aren't going to focus on cultural legends and mythology, but there are some that would involve indigenous background like wendigos. In this case, yes, you should probably spend at least five minutes glancing at wikipedia.
I feel like schools are probably an obvious exemption from the examples I provided as there are things such as multicultural clubs and international students.
I feel like schools are probably an obvious exemption from the examples I provided as there are things such as multicultural clubs and international students.
The Great Sage
The Storyteller
Cultural conflict is just so fascinating. The Greek city-states considered anyone outside of theirs to be 'babaros' and basically little better than animals in terms of rights and freedoms. Later on when Rome conquered Greece in a one-sided stompfest, Rome actually lost because Greek culture basically swallowed the Roman empire whole inside of one generation.
The most incredible stories are often ones where competing cultures either conflict or mesh together. Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Picard and that alien that only speaks in metaphor, the Crusades. The movie 'Homeward Bound' even has lessons about how different people (cats and dogs) from different backgrounds have different and complimentary skills.
I still don't know. I feel like a person's ethnic and (more importantly) cultural background is a huge aspect of that person.
The most incredible stories are often ones where competing cultures either conflict or mesh together. Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Picard and that alien that only speaks in metaphor, the Crusades. The movie 'Homeward Bound' even has lessons about how different people (cats and dogs) from different backgrounds have different and complimentary skills.
I still don't know. I feel like a person's ethnic and (more importantly) cultural background is a huge aspect of that person.
Nihilum
HONEEEEYY? WHERE'S MY SUPER SUIT?!
I should suppose it depends entirely on the audience. For the purpose of the thread - which appears to be focusing more so on RP usage than in literature - a simple understanding of a character's cultural and ethnic background will suffice. The average roleplayer doesn't really care so long as you manage to get the basics like language right. My opinion leans more towards 'just worry about making sure your Brazilian character doesn't speak Spanish instead of Portuguese and you're good' as opposed to 'you shouldn't learn any of their culture, it's not important.'
There will, of course, be people who are actually interested in going more in-depth about history and culture. This is fine. I do plenty of research myself, because you don't want to be that guy with the Yakuza character who doesn't know a single thing about their significance in Japanese culture. But for your regular old Joe who just wants to know if they can make their character a certain skin color, or have them be from Mexico? We should try to make the entry level as least intimidating as possible. Getting their foot in the door is how you get them to get more involved and interested in these things as time goes on. If we scare them off with "NO YOU GOTTA BE A MASTER", they'll stay in their bubble and remain ignorant.
There will, of course, be people who are actually interested in going more in-depth about history and culture. This is fine. I do plenty of research myself, because you don't want to be that guy with the Yakuza character who doesn't know a single thing about their significance in Japanese culture. But for your regular old Joe who just wants to know if they can make their character a certain skin color, or have them be from Mexico? We should try to make the entry level as least intimidating as possible. Getting their foot in the door is how you get them to get more involved and interested in these things as time goes on. If we scare them off with "NO YOU GOTTA BE A MASTER", they'll stay in their bubble and remain ignorant.
The Great Sage
The Storyteller
Yep, makes perfect sense to me.
Exactly my feelings.
Again, makes perfect sense.
The only thing I had issue with what you said was when you mentioned that you consider a person's race to be as insignificant as eye colour. I personally know a few minority people whom, if I said that to them, I think would probably hit me.
There are a lot of people out there that take their roots very seriously.
