Advice/Help Is it okay to roleplay as characters that aren't a part of your race/ethnic group?

[Lorsh]

Yes listen to the twitter hivemind that tries to control you, this is the only way to achieve true RP

 

[le-toose]

So I feel like context is everything. If you are playing someone of a different ethnicity than I would talk to people of that ethnicity before making your character.

Example years ago I made an Australian character. I went out of my way to do research and thought I had made a very respectful character. Turns out their was an actual Australian in the roleplay and they about died laughing at my character. I had apparently made them a stereotype without meaning to.

Granted the other person wasn’t angry, as the stereotype was not portrayed in a malicious light. But they did say that all that research I had done was basically useless.

So I think if you want to write an ethnicity outside of your own than just talk to people of that ethnicity. It doesn’t matter if the roleplay is realistic or not, it’s still good to check in and make sure you aren’t inadvertently contributing to a stereotype (even if it’s not a harmful one).


Skin color in itself is a different issue. If you want to make a bipoc without any of the real world racial or cultural connotations in a made up world than go for it. As long as they aren’t solely defined by their skin color ( don’t go on an on about the color of their skin and how exotic they are as compared to everyone else. That’s kinda gross regardless of the skin color involved but it’s especially gross with bipoc)

But other than that particular thing I can’t think why skin color in itself is an issue. Even different ethnicities aren’t a problem as long as you check in with people of that ethnicity to make sure you know the tropes to stear clear of.

A lot of great points you brought up here! I'd like to say I stay very clear of troupes or stereotypes, harmful or not harmful both. And I definitely don't go on and on about how they look or if they're "exotic", that definitely is weird and I can second-hand understand how alienating and fetishistic that can be.

Thank you for responding and I'll definitely check in with people to make sure I'm not making any of my characters stereotypes!

 

[SandraDeelightful]

Twitter is one of the most toxic places that exist. I wouldn’t listen to anything that is said on there. Make your character whatever race you want.

 

[le-toose]

There isn't inherently wrong with writing about a character that is a race different from oneself. It happens all the time. Especially in science fiction and fantasy (some fantasy tropes are kind of gross but that's a different post). The thing that makes it problematic is when the race of the character is making clear reference to the lived realities of people of color in the world today - and getting them wrong. No one really minds if a white person writes a black character or a latinx character or etc so far as the character is true to life and a real three dimensional character in and of themselves. That is to say - they are characters that just happen to be black or latinx or etc. No one also minds it if a white person rights a black character grappling with the state of race relations in the world today. If they get it right.

The thing is that at the end of the day white people simply do not have the lived experience that people of color have and because of this it can be very obvious (especially to PoCs) when a white character is trying to come at the topic of race in a way that is incredibly clumsy and ham handed. It isn't that hard to tell most of the time. And it isn't their fault really - white people have no idea what black and brown lives are really like because the media never portrays black and brown lives - not with any real degree of accuracy, anyway. Conversely, this is also why black and brown people seem "wise" in a way that sometimes mystifies white people: people of color know the lived experience of both black and brown lives and they know about the lived experience of white lives because the lived experience of white lives is literally every where. Every major tv, book, or movie series is primarily about white people and from the white point of view. As a person of color you spend a lot of time looking at faces not like your own. White people don't have any relationship with another culture that is like this, and so they are not unlike a deaf-mute writing about music.

Tl:dr writing as another race is problematic when you are using that as a tool to push a message about race/racism since, unless you are practiced or have a lot of people in your life that are people of color, you will do it in a way that is obvious and that will cause a lot of groans from people who can tell. This isn't to say that you can't have an opinion on race, just that you can't use a character of another race as a mouthpiece for that opinion. It's deceptive and gross.

First of all, thank you so much for writing all of this. It was really enlightening for me and I understood everything you were saying. You even brought up some things that I'd never thought about before and I feel like it gave me more perspective.

I definitely do not use any of my characters as mouthpieces or to push some sort of propaganda or hidden message behind them. And because I know I don't understand what a PoCs experience is like being a PoC I don't want to try to write about that specifically because I know there's a lot I don't first-hand understand and never will. And because of that, there's a lot I could misrepresent, get completely wrong, or, as you said, make it really groan-worthy.

Again, thank you so much for responding.

 

[Jet]

I think you should stop being as tepid about this. Should a middle class black person from the city not write about a dirt-poor white person in the country? Of course not, write what you want. The audience will decide if it's garbage or not.

And here's the problem with modern race theory, it doesn't take into account intersectionality. A white kid from a minority white area, who has no connection to white suburbia, will know more about black/latino American society than an African American kid raised in Beverly Hills. There are unlimited ways to categorize people, the Twitter group you're worried about only looks at one, and that's race. The idea that race identity trumps everything else, is at the core of this anti-individualist dogma.

 

[nerdy tangents]

A lot of great points you brought up here! I'd like to say I stay very clear of troupes or stereotypes, harmful or not harmful both. And I definitely don't go on and on about how they look or if they're "exotic", that definitely is weird and I can second-hand understand how alienating and fetishistic that can be.

Thank you for responding and I'll definitely check in with people to make sure I'm not making any of my characters stereotypes!

oh I didn’t want to imply you were doing that. It’s just usually when people talk about misrepresenting a specific skin color/race that is exactly what they’re talking about.

It’s not really about skin color as it is about people being tired of seeing those like them reduced to stereotypes, fetishized, etc.

If you want an example of how to do this right I would check out Tamora Pierce’s Emelan Series. There are two explicitly bipoc main characters in that series (and a third that could be read as a type of bipoc based on what her home country is meant to be an analogy of in the real world).

Now it’s a total fantasy world so there is no point for point comparison to real life experience but a lot of things that are obviously based on real life experiences.

One protagonist is a black girl whose culture is loosely based on the Romani people. So she faces a lot of real world prejudice for that in the early books. So she has a story people of color can relate to but it has nothing to do with her skin color. As those of her culture come in all hues (white, brown, black, etc). And as such are no looked down upon for their skin color but for their culture.

The other bipoc has a similar storyline, in that she takes a stereotypical experience (joining a gang, growing up poor, etc) and makes it so that it’s not really a skin color issue. The character happens to be of color but they aren’t defined by that so much as their childhood.

Bonus - there are other people of color who have completely different backgrounds. So it reinforces the idea that it’s your life experiences that define you not your skin color. (Well In the fantasy world obviously, it would be a little different if this was a real world story)

- forgot to mention Tammy is a Middle Aged White Lady.

 

[le-toose]

oh I didn’t want to imply you were doing that. It’s just usually when people talk about misrepresenting a specific skin color/race that is exactly what they’re talking about.

It’s not really about skin color as it is about people being tired of seeing those like them reduced to stereotypes, fetishized, etc.

If you want an example of how to do this right I would check out Tamora Pierce’s Emelan Series. There are two explicitly bipoc main characters in that series (and a third that could be read as a type of bipoc based on what her home country is meant to be an analogy of in the real world).

Now it’s a total fantasy world so there is no point for point comparison to real life experience but a lot of things that are obviously based on real life experiences.

One protagonist is a black girl whose culture is loosely based on the Romani people. So she faces a lot of real world prejudice for that in the early books. So she has a story people of color can relate to but it has nothing to do with her skin color. As those of her culture come in all hues (white, brown, black, etc). And as such are no looked down upon for their skin color but for their culture.

The other bipoc has a similar storyline, in that she takes a stereotypical experience (joining a gang, growing up poor, etc) and makes it so that it’s not really a skin color issue. The character happens to be of color but they aren’t defined by that so much as their childhood.

Bonus - there are other people of color who have completely different backgrounds. So it reinforces the idea that it’s your life experiences that define you not your skin color. (Well In the fantasy world obviously, it would be a little different if this was a real world story)

- forgot to mention Tammy is a Middle Aged White Lady.

Oh yes, I understood that wasn't what you were insinuating I was just adding on in the conversation! Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough lol. In a lot of my replies I've been trying to add on in the conversation by explaining more about what it is I do personally.

Also I'll definitely check out the series, it seems interesting just hearing a bit about the characters! I need more things to read honestly. Thank you for bringing this up as an example!

 

[nerdy tangents]

Oh yes, I understood that wasn't what you were insinuating I was just adding on in the conversation! Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough lol. In a lot of my replies I've been trying to add on in the conversation by explaining more about what it is I do personally.

Also I'll definitely check out the series, it seems interesting just hearing a bit about the characters! I need more things to read honestly. Thank you for bringing this up as an example!

Yeah they’re really good. If you don’t mind reading reviews and listening to YouTube - Mark Reads read all of them in chronological ordeR. They linked to YouTube videos of them reading each chapter in their reviews.

If not they are the Magic Circle, Circle Opened, and Circle Reforged series by Tamora Pierce.

 

[Murdergurl]

So for some context, I was on Twitter the other day and I saw a post basically saying...

Lemme just stop you right there, and letcha know that was your first mistake. Don't listen to the twitter asshats. They love the smell of their own farts, and expect you to love it too.

 

[Phantom Phoenix]

Yes, you can. You can make any character you want, just try to avoid the stereotypes associated with playing different ethnic groups. Also, try not to make the main focus on the character's race so much that everything else about them falls off to the side.

 

[Archie]

In 1900, European professors believed there were 3 races of white people: Nordics, Alpinics, and Mediterraneans. British and Italian professors were constantly arguing as to whether the Nordic or Mediterranean race was superior. In the US, there was intra-white discrimination against Southern Europeans, Eastern Europeans, and the Irish. It wasn't until the end of World War 2 that the "three white races" theory was discredited due to Hitler's support of it, and a monolithic "white" identity emerged.

In the 1960s, Japanese Prime Minister Kishi Nobusuke went on an "Asian" tour to Indonesia and Malaysia. This confused Japanese people, who saw "Asia" as them, China, and Korea. Over time, "Asian" replaced "Yellow" as the main way to refer to East Asians in the West. In the US, the term still primarily refers to this group, while in the UK, it refers to Indians.

All Europeans and Asians are descended from a very small group that left Africa. More genetic variation exists within Africa than in the rest of the world combined.

Why am I saying all this? Racial classification is arbitrary, and it's not even consistent. If anyone wants to limit themselves to one race, they're playing into a politically-motivated pseudoscience. It's far more problematic to racially limit your characters than not to. I remember on another site, there was a battle of the continents RP and the entire African team was white. Most of them used this same excuse.

In RPs, you can't be problematic to the same degree as if you were writing a work of fiction you totally control. I'd go as far as to say roleplaying other races is inherently anti-racist.

What's racist about the portrayal of minorities in modern media? The white guy is usually center stage, and minorities are token characters whose defining characteristic is their race. There's usually only one of them from any group, so you see no variety in the personality of minority characters. This is racism by laziness, the main form of racism in media today. The author or screenwriter has to decide the fate of all his characters, but has a limited amount of time. So, he focuses on his white characters and turns the rest into stereotypes.

I'm sure there are racists who RP, but even so I have never once seen a POC character whose race is their defining character trait. Everyone who has ever made a character wants them to be unique, interesting, and relatable. Meanwhile, in RPs, every character gets equal attention. Because of this, there is no "racism by laziness" in RPs. I've seen way more diversity in POC portrayals in RP than I have in conventional media.

 

[Daisie]

I RP as a pink kickass alien, a fuzzy demon dragon, an ashen-black adversary from the pits of hell, a regular dragon, a skeleton that practices necromancy, a harpy, and a literal artificial intelligence.
Needless to say, I don't have to be any of these things to portray them in my RPs.

So I obviously don't RP humans often. The very few times I have, I can't say I've had them be a POC. However...
Saying that a white person can't RP as a POC is not only discriminatory against the white people, but it also implies that people of colour need to somehow be written differently than any other character, which is ironically also discriminatory towards people of colour.
All people are equal, so don't RP them differently. I would be less worried about diversity in skin colour and more concerned with diversity in personality and background.

And for heaven's sakes, this is a hobby. It's not like this stuff is being published or preached by mouth to the masses like sacred texts. As long as your partner is on the same page, you shouldn't have to worry about accidentally coming off as offensive.

 

[Chordling]

All people are equal, so don't RP them differently.

I would disagree with this. Women are treated differently than men are. People of color are also treated different by society. Same said for the LGBTQ+ community. It’s okay to acknowledge these differences in writing. Ignoring them might actually be worse.

 

[Jannah]

All Europeans and Asians are descended from a very small group that left Africa. More genetic variation exists within Africa than in the rest of the world combined.

Why am I saying all this? Racial classification is arbitrary, and it's not even consistent. If anyone wants to limit themselves to one race, they're playing into a politically-motivated pseudoscience. It's far more problematic to racially limit your characters than not to. I remember on another site, there was a battle of the continents RP and the entire African team was white. Most of them used this same excuse.

I'm on a site currently where almost all the African characters are white. They were able to get away with it by making them Afrikaans. It's rather annoying because I'd like to see some, you know, actual Africans. On that same site I only play one white character currently(she's German). The rest are Asians.

 

[Daisie]

I would disagree with this. Women are treated differently than men are. People of color are also treated different by society. Same said for the LGBTQ+ community. It’s okay to acknowledge these differences in writing. Ignoring them might actually be worse.

True. What I meant by this is more like... at heart, a black person isn't any different than a white person. They might make different decisions based on their personality or backstory (which should be the case for ALL characters, regardless of skin colour), but the fact that they are visually different or come from a different culture doesn't necessarily mean that they're different at heart.

Edit: What I mean to say is that being TREATED differently is more of an outside influence rather than a trait of the character. This treatment may affect the character, but again, EVERYONE would react in some way to being discriminated against, regardless of colour or orientation.

 

[Jannah]

True. What I meant by this is more like... at heart, a black person isn't any different than a white person. They might make different decisions based on their personality or backstory (which should be the case for ALL characters, regardless of skin colour), but the fact that they are visually different or come from a different culture doesn't necessarily mean that they're different at heart.

Main differences are cultural I think. On another site I play a couple Korean characters(and one's even from North Korea originally) and I've been having to research all sorts of stuff on Korean culture so I can portray them accurately without resorting to stereotypes.

 

[Daisie]

Main differences are cultural I think. On another site I play a couple Korean characters(and one's even from North Korea originally) and I've been having to research all sorts of stuff on Korean culture so I can portray them accurately without resorting to stereotypes.

Definitely. And culture is important too! I just don't see it as much different than... say, RPing the culture of an alien species or demons from hell. Sure, it may hold a bit more importance seeing as it's not fictional - I mean, if I were trying to portray the American Civil War, you bet I'd be pretty careful about it - but again, I'm more referring to how saying "only POC can RP POC" kind of serves to dehumanize actual people of colour. It's more in regards the people, not the culture, if that makes sense. Which it may not. At this point I'm just word vomiting and hoping it comes out in a somewhat legible manner

Also good on you for doing your research! Kudos c:

 

[Murdergurl]

What's racist about the portrayal of minorities in modern media? The white guy is usually center stage, and minorities are token characters whose defining characteristic is their race. There's usually only one of them from any group, so you see no variety in the personality of minority characters. This is racism by laziness, the main form of racism in media today. The author or screenwriter has to decide the fate of all his characters, but has a limited amount of time. So, he focuses on his white characters and turns the rest into stereotypes.

All of what you said was an excellent point, but I have to disagree with this part. Movies, series, and other media have done a 180 on their representation as of late. This, even to the point where they are making it an obvious push. Like instead of the movie/series/etc. having an organic cast, they instead are pushing the all-inclusive agenda to the point of a cringe.

 

[Archie]

All of what you said was an excellent point, but I have to disagree with this part. Movies, series, and other media have done a 180 on their representation as of late. This, even to the point where they are making it an obvious push. Like instead of the movie/series/etc. having an organic cast, they instead are pushing the all-inclusive agenda to the point of a cringe.

They've become diverse but not inclusive. Though there are obviously exceptions (shows targeted at POC like Dear White People or Wu Assassins), most shows have great diversity in representation of white characters but their POC characters are 1-sided tropes. Shows are still contaminated with Black thugs, Latino drug dealers, nerdy Asian men and wise old indigenous people who speak in riddles. Whites are portrayed as individuals, POC are portrayed as extensions of a collective. In some cases it's openly racist, but in most cases it's just laziness.

My point is that in RPs that doesn't happen. Everyone writes their characters to be protagonists and they all get equal attention. No one that I've seen has ever written a POC character defined by their race, but in media it happens all the time.

 

[Jannah]

All of what you said was an excellent point, but I have to disagree with this part. Movies, series, and other media have done a 180 on their representation as of late. This, even to the point where they are making it an obvious push. Like instead of the movie/series/etc. having an organic cast, they instead are pushing the all-inclusive agenda to the point of a cringe.

The Oscars have actually made a rule that, starting in 2024, a movie must have a certain percentage of POC characters to qualify for best picture. While I think there's good intentions there I think actually putting it into practice will do more harm than good. Particularly ambitious directors may start casting POC actors in flat cardboard roles just to meet the quota.

 

[Archie]

The Oscars have actually made a rule that, starting in 2024, a movie must have a certain percentage of POC characters to qualify for best picture. While I think there's good intentions there I think actually putting it into practice will do more harm than good. Particularly ambitious directors may start casting POC actors in flat cardboard roles just to meet the quota.

Agree. This also begs the question of what counts as a POC. I'm mixed race but white passing - should I count as a POC? What about Jason Momoa, Keanu Reeves, Henry Golding? Where do we draw the line - 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, or the good old "one drop rule"? Each of these is problematic for different reasons. When we get closer to 2024, I bet we'll see a lot of movies casting white passing actors as fully POC characters. This is arguably worse than not having POC characters, or at the very least not progress.

But we'll have to see how it plays out. A lot of people hated it, but I thought the insertion of black actors into Mary Queen of Scotts was very interesting and well done.

 

[Jannah]

Agree. This also begs the question of what counts as a POC. I'm half white but white passing - should I count as a POC? What about Jason Momoa, Keanu Reeves, Henry Golding? Where do we draw the line - 100%, 50%, 25%, or the good old "one drop rule"? Each of these is problematic for different reasons. When we get closer to 2024, I bet we'll see a lot of movies casting white passing actors as fully POC characters. This is arguably worse than not having POC characters, or at the very least not progress.

But we'll have to see how it plays out. A lot of people hated it, but I thought the insertion of black actors into Mary Queen of Scotts was very interesting and well done.

Of course it becomes a trickier issue when dealing with movies about historical events, particularly those based around European or American history. Obviously in a movie about European history there's pretty limited roles for POC's. In American history it's less of an issue, but depending on how far back it is set there may be a lot of black characters in roles as slaves or Native American characters being slaughtered.

 

[Murdergurl]

They've become diverse but not inclusive. Though there are obviously exceptions (shows targeted at POC like Dear White People or Wu Assassins), most shows have great diversity in representation of white characters but their POC characters are 1-sided tropes. Shows are still contaminated with Black thugs, Latino drug dealers, nerdy Asian men and wise old indigenous people who speak in riddles. Whites are portrayed as individuals, POC are portrayed as extensions of a collective. In some cases it's openly racist, but in most cases it's just laziness.

My point is that in RPs that doesn't happen. Everyone writes their characters to be protagonists and they all get equal attention. No one that I've seen has ever written a POC character defined by their race, but in media it happens all the time.

eh... I wouldn't call the white protagonist characters deep by any means. They are just as one-dimensional, stereotyped, and cookie cutter as any other character. Even the "depth of character" is a tired trope. Movies in general are very "by the numbers". I can watch pretty much any movie within the last 15 years and call the plot twists, oust the character tropes, and basically give the overall breakdown and archetypes of the film anywhere within the first 20 to 30 minutes. Movies are an assembly line, and we are just watching the same product in different packaging over and over and over again.

As far as RPs... I mean, we all have our stereotypes and character tropes that are in constant use. That's a whole other discussion though. BUT, they are almost never based on a racial foundation. I'm only speaking from the perspective of someone who doesn't really play in modern settings, though. So I don't know if any typecasts exist within that genre. In sci-fi and fantasy, the point is to get away from reality. So these ideas are almost always intrinsically discarded.

 

[Cosmo]

Of course you can, people are just people. One of the amusing things I love about history is seeing just how little we've changed and how alike we are across all cultures and time, for instance, they found a 3,500 year old Babylonian tablet that had a 'yo mama' joke on it. Culture influences someone just as their history or location they lived in [If they are living in a place that doesn't accept their sexual identify? Feel free to dive into that], there is no reason you couldn't write that and, well, roleplay it. Again, people are people. Everyone is more then just their culture or heritage, they are more then their sexual identify or skin color and that should not be all that defines them nor should it be what alienates them from being represented by anyone else. Just play your character like they are a person who would be, understandably, affected by their circumstance or situation because everyone, regardless of gender, skin tone or sexual orientation, can sympathize with themes like feeling ostracized, belittled or forgotten and so portray that in a character.

Sympathy and empathy, and the ability to portray that, doesn't start with your skin tone.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Cosmos I feel like the only problem with just portraying people as people comes in different ethnicities/cultures.

Cuz not all cultures are the same and people interact with their culture in different ways.

A good example of this is actually white people and racism. I had a partner who would swear up down and sideways they weren’t racist but then quote all kinds of radical racist bullshit that they were indoctrinated into from people in their lives and online. It was disturbing actually to have someone so removed from objective reality but insisting they were woke and everyone around them was wrong.

Now that’s an extreme example obviously but it does show that people are often joy aware of how much their OWN culture and lives experience color how they see the world.

Which is why it can be hard to portray people outside those lived experiences. If you don’t realize how much of your view of the world is down to your own culture and experiences than it can be hard to correctly interpret what would change if you make your character different.

Its why checking in with someone else is good, especially someone who has the experience you want to portray.

It’s a bit easier with skin color specifically because you can keep your own culture and lived experience and just change the color of the skin.

So for culture I recommend talking to people first before making a character. For skin color just go for it as long as you aren’t looking to turn the character into a statement on inequality or something.