Skari-dono
Senior Member
Can anyone tell me where I can find info about Infernal Exalted as NPC? Â Book and page please.
Infernals
- Thread starter Skari-dono
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Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
There isn't all that much in print about the Infernals--not Akuma, which are covered in the PG--pgs-86-89. Infernals are hinted at, mostly a few references to the 50 Shards that the Yozi got for helping their Malfean brethren create their Abyssals. Â
But nothing in canon thus far.
I would think that if you wanted to create new Infernals, that looking at Solars and Abyssals would be your starting point. Â I would think that the Infernals would not be given Investitures like the Akuma--being more efficient in their reworking, with the Solar Shard in the Yozis' hot hands for a longer time, means they could have plenty of time to make things intersting.
I would put a lot of emphasis on corruption in their Charms. Â Not just in combat, with poisons, diseases, warping and corroding--a few Charms that turn weapons against masters, armor slags and turns into ugly weals that can poison their wearer--but also in their social Charms. Â Infernals aren't just tricksters, but corupters. Â Turning folks against their masters, against their lovers, against their teachers. Â That may also mean a few interesting Charms that cover with illusion as well. Â Turning perspective in combat so that a victim begins mowing down his own troops, quite by accident, but with full effect of their own native Charms. Â Turning things to their own advantage should be the Infernal MO. Â Land. Words. Weapons. People.
That Infernals can turn folks to their cause, should mean that they have their own version of Tiger Warrior, and they should have Infernal magics that allow them to Imbue critters and folks with all sorts of goodies. Â Or better, allow a Demon or two to take up residence, and let them do all the work, according to the will of their Master. Â A simple gift or kiss could allow a seed of corruption, and increased contact with the Infernal could allow them to build on the corruption so that their gift of a Demon wrapped up in nice bundle of Wards could infect them, possess them, and let the Yozi work their will even further.
Giving out blights and other mutations should also figure into either their Sorcery or Occult Charms. Â Giving the gift that keeps on giving. Â Same with their Performance and Socialize Charms. Â Their Awareness Charms not only detect folks, but their state of mind, what motivates them, and what their weaknesses are. Â Dodge Charms should put the Infernal not only out of harm's way, but in a good position to strike back. Larceny should be their forte. Â Stealth as well--lots of hiding in plain sight, but less about hiding in shadows, but masking their Infernal nature. Just a poor old peasant walking the road boss. Your road boss. Just walking the road boss. Investigation Charms yield even more damaging information of a personal nature. Â Occult Charms should also have a corruption flavor, turning Spirits to the task of the Yozi--perhaps more along the lines of "backdoor" codes that the Primordials built into their servants, demanding obeisance to the Solar Shards, albeit corrupted by the Yozi. Â Medicine Charms should also have a corruption theme. Â Not just diseases, but warping bodies and minds. Â Performance should have a few madness instilling Charms. Â Craft should have a few warping effects too, but allow the Infernal to weave living flesh as well as materials. Â A chariot made up of a few dozen screaming Mortals, a wagon, a pack of hounds, and a couple of horses--that's Infernal flavor for your ass.
But in canon, this is all just speculation. That's how I would approach such a task. Â Up to you how you want to take it.
But nothing in canon thus far.
I would think that if you wanted to create new Infernals, that looking at Solars and Abyssals would be your starting point. Â I would think that the Infernals would not be given Investitures like the Akuma--being more efficient in their reworking, with the Solar Shard in the Yozis' hot hands for a longer time, means they could have plenty of time to make things intersting.
I would put a lot of emphasis on corruption in their Charms. Â Not just in combat, with poisons, diseases, warping and corroding--a few Charms that turn weapons against masters, armor slags and turns into ugly weals that can poison their wearer--but also in their social Charms. Â Infernals aren't just tricksters, but corupters. Â Turning folks against their masters, against their lovers, against their teachers. Â That may also mean a few interesting Charms that cover with illusion as well. Â Turning perspective in combat so that a victim begins mowing down his own troops, quite by accident, but with full effect of their own native Charms. Â Turning things to their own advantage should be the Infernal MO. Â Land. Words. Weapons. People.
That Infernals can turn folks to their cause, should mean that they have their own version of Tiger Warrior, and they should have Infernal magics that allow them to Imbue critters and folks with all sorts of goodies. Â Or better, allow a Demon or two to take up residence, and let them do all the work, according to the will of their Master. Â A simple gift or kiss could allow a seed of corruption, and increased contact with the Infernal could allow them to build on the corruption so that their gift of a Demon wrapped up in nice bundle of Wards could infect them, possess them, and let the Yozi work their will even further.
Giving out blights and other mutations should also figure into either their Sorcery or Occult Charms. Â Giving the gift that keeps on giving. Â Same with their Performance and Socialize Charms. Â Their Awareness Charms not only detect folks, but their state of mind, what motivates them, and what their weaknesses are. Â Dodge Charms should put the Infernal not only out of harm's way, but in a good position to strike back. Larceny should be their forte. Â Stealth as well--lots of hiding in plain sight, but less about hiding in shadows, but masking their Infernal nature. Just a poor old peasant walking the road boss. Your road boss. Just walking the road boss. Investigation Charms yield even more damaging information of a personal nature. Â Occult Charms should also have a corruption flavor, turning Spirits to the task of the Yozi--perhaps more along the lines of "backdoor" codes that the Primordials built into their servants, demanding obeisance to the Solar Shards, albeit corrupted by the Yozi. Â Medicine Charms should also have a corruption theme. Â Not just diseases, but warping bodies and minds. Â Performance should have a few madness instilling Charms. Â Craft should have a few warping effects too, but allow the Infernal to weave living flesh as well as materials. Â A chariot made up of a few dozen screaming Mortals, a wagon, a pack of hounds, and a couple of horses--that's Infernal flavor for your ass.
But in canon, this is all just speculation. That's how I would approach such a task. Â Up to you how you want to take it.
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Jakk seems to contnuously ignore the fact that "Infernal" and "Akuma" are used interchangably in the material printed so far.
Dukantha, an Akuma, is explicitly referred to as "Infernal".
-S
Dukantha, an Akuma, is explicitly referred to as "Infernal".
-S
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
That's because I thought we were going to try to seperate out, at least on our board, a distinction between the two, just for clarity's sake--so that we didn't get sidetracked into chasing down Akuma and the Yozi's Chosen Fifty.
Not ignoring it, rather setting aside the sometimes confusing way that the WW writers tend to ignore their own Style Book...
Not ignoring it, rather setting aside the sometimes confusing way that the WW writers tend to ignore their own Style Book...
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
It'd be interesting to see how the writers eventually thrash out the mechanical differences between Invested Infernals and Shard Infernals (hereafter referred to as Invested and Shards); for example, it appears that Invested still have access to their own charms while acquiring a boatload of powers, while Shards are likely to have a new set based off their old charms, much like the Abyssal/Solar contrast.
 Will Shards have access to the Invested's granted powers, or will they not be considered aspects of their controlling Yozi or demon? For those of you not understanding my reference, I believe that it's canon (though I can't find the page ref) that Invested become a soul of the Investing demon/Yozi; Dukantha is technically also a Third Circle demon post-Investiture by Kimberry.
 Also, will Invested be able to learn the new Shard charms? If so, is there a higher xp/bp cost for them?
 Stuff like that.
 Will Shards have access to the Invested's granted powers, or will they not be considered aspects of their controlling Yozi or demon? For those of you not understanding my reference, I believe that it's canon (though I can't find the page ref) that Invested become a soul of the Investing demon/Yozi; Dukantha is technically also a Third Circle demon post-Investiture by Kimberry.
 Also, will Invested be able to learn the new Shard charms? If so, is there a higher xp/bp cost for them?
 Stuff like that.
Doesn't the Ebon dragon have the 50 Solar shards?
Would this mean that should there be shard infernals they all belong to him, or did he share? Â
I have always liked the idea that infernals would be hellish dragonblooded, in the same light as Abyssals are to Solars. Â Obviously this is not quite the case with invested, as any exalt can become an akuma. Â However, I propose that the Ebon Dragon, with help from his beloved soon to be wife, is using those shards (and an ample supply of dragonblooded) to discern the secrets of creating exalts so that he can make his own Infernal DBs. Â (Afterall, what good would a whopping 50 shard infernals be, and it seems to me that the idea of a race of corrupted DBs would be an easier tool to free him from his own hell than if he could make a small army by making new shards.)
Would this mean that should there be shard infernals they all belong to him, or did he share? Â
I have always liked the idea that infernals would be hellish dragonblooded, in the same light as Abyssals are to Solars. Â Obviously this is not quite the case with invested, as any exalt can become an akuma. Â However, I propose that the Ebon Dragon, with help from his beloved soon to be wife, is using those shards (and an ample supply of dragonblooded) to discern the secrets of creating exalts so that he can make his own Infernal DBs. Â (Afterall, what good would a whopping 50 shard infernals be, and it seems to me that the idea of a race of corrupted DBs would be an easier tool to free him from his own hell than if he could make a small army by making new shards.)
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
With an Empress at his side, and a whole Blessed Isle full of back stabbing, power hungry Dynasts, I think that when the Ebon Dragon begins to make the move, there won't be too much trouble finding DB's to take a skim over the The Broken-Winged Crane, or perhaps an Infernal Sorcery that can assist in the conversion to the ranks of the Akuma.
As for 50 Shards? Â What good could "only" 50 do? Â The Wyld Hunt was formed for maybe 5 or 6 Shards of Solars, and a few other threats along the way, but mostly for those Solars. Â Give the Yozi 50 servants with the power of the Solars, and the nasty that only the Yozi can bring, and a network of secret cults and whispers, and you can see 50 Shards being able to do more than just physical damage.
The Yozi aren't about ending things. Â That's the Malfeans' gig. The Yozi want their toy back and everyone in it is going to suffer for the indignities that they've had to suffer. Â They are about corruption, not destruction. Â Taint, not death. Â
As for freeing the Ebon Dragon from its bonds...DB's are limited in the power. Yes, there are lots of them, but they are limited. The lower level on Sorcery is a biggie. Â If you're going to free up the Yozi, just a bunch of souped up DB's isn't going to do it--unless you're possibly looking at sacrificing a LOT of them, which isn't a bad idea, but you're still going to need a Toastmaster with some dap. Yes, you've got The Empress, and she's going to ramped up to the gills, but with 50 or so Shards, you've got a lot more potential for serious Sorcerous whoop ass, than a bunch of Terrestrial level Sorcerers with balefire dredlocks.
Instead, you get 50 pockets of insurrection and corruption. Â You get your army of converted DB's through those 50--and converted God Bloods, corrupted Spirits, and Mortal followers aplenty who will curse their own Gods when properly motivated. Â Why not go for both an army of power hungry, amoral DB's, and 50 of the most powerful Shards tooled and studded for the Empress' pleasure?
As for 50 Shards? Â What good could "only" 50 do? Â The Wyld Hunt was formed for maybe 5 or 6 Shards of Solars, and a few other threats along the way, but mostly for those Solars. Â Give the Yozi 50 servants with the power of the Solars, and the nasty that only the Yozi can bring, and a network of secret cults and whispers, and you can see 50 Shards being able to do more than just physical damage.
The Yozi aren't about ending things. Â That's the Malfeans' gig. The Yozi want their toy back and everyone in it is going to suffer for the indignities that they've had to suffer. Â They are about corruption, not destruction. Â Taint, not death. Â
As for freeing the Ebon Dragon from its bonds...DB's are limited in the power. Yes, there are lots of them, but they are limited. The lower level on Sorcery is a biggie. Â If you're going to free up the Yozi, just a bunch of souped up DB's isn't going to do it--unless you're possibly looking at sacrificing a LOT of them, which isn't a bad idea, but you're still going to need a Toastmaster with some dap. Yes, you've got The Empress, and she's going to ramped up to the gills, but with 50 or so Shards, you've got a lot more potential for serious Sorcerous whoop ass, than a bunch of Terrestrial level Sorcerers with balefire dredlocks.
Instead, you get 50 pockets of insurrection and corruption. Â You get your army of converted DB's through those 50--and converted God Bloods, corrupted Spirits, and Mortal followers aplenty who will curse their own Gods when properly motivated. Â Why not go for both an army of power hungry, amoral DB's, and 50 of the most powerful Shards tooled and studded for the Empress' pleasure?
Obsidian Soul
Member
From the data that was given in Blood and Salt, an Infernal DB would have access to all three levels of Infernal Sorcery, making them very, very powerful. Â Hell, as long as a mortal or God-Blooded is loyal to their patron, they could get an Infernal Artifact that gives them access to the first and second level of Infernal Sorcery, making them a nasty surprise to any Exalt that messes with them.
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Dukantha also has several centuries as an Infernal. He's definitely no starting character.
-S
-S
Obsidian Soul
Member
No starting character should be an Infernal, in my opinion. Â You should have to work for your damnation.
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
If the writers ever give in and produce Exalted: the Infernals, they will have to:
1) Change the absolute hold the Yozis have on Infernals, or
2) Make a clear distinction between Invested and Shards, and how their corruption affects them.
 Here's a rather nasty thought. Most people think that the Yozis are simply tinkering with the fifty shards they received from the Malfeans, in order to install similar modifications that converted the Solar Essences to Abyssal Essences.
 What if the fifty were meant to be experiments with which the more technically-minded of the Yozis attempted to reverse engineer Autochthon's work of creating Exalted shards?
 Before the bargain was struck, the Yozis never had direct access to the shards of those they corrupted; otherwise, they'd have figured out how to retain the shards of the Celestial Invested by now.
1) Change the absolute hold the Yozis have on Infernals, or
2) Make a clear distinction between Invested and Shards, and how their corruption affects them.
 Here's a rather nasty thought. Most people think that the Yozis are simply tinkering with the fifty shards they received from the Malfeans, in order to install similar modifications that converted the Solar Essences to Abyssal Essences.
 What if the fifty were meant to be experiments with which the more technically-minded of the Yozis attempted to reverse engineer Autochthon's work of creating Exalted shards?
 Before the bargain was struck, the Yozis never had direct access to the shards of those they corrupted; otherwise, they'd have figured out how to retain the shards of the Celestial Invested by now.
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Not that WW wouldn't retcon it, but it has been mentioned that those 50 shards will be used to create an "honor guard" for the wedding of the Ebdon Dragon and the Empress. What they do with them after that, however, isn't specified.
-S
-S
fmneto
New Member
I remember reading a brief description of Akuma in the Player's Guide. I don't remember where, though. Probably together with the demon-blooded.
I heard the same thing about the "honor guard", too; I can't recall where, though.
I heard the same thing about the "honor guard", too; I can't recall where, though.
Elcief
New Member
That's really, REALLY, creepy... Â :shock:
I wonder if the Yozis could match Auto in the crafting of Exalted -after all, he is THE crafter-. Perhaps, foreseeing such things, he "ciphered" the whole exaltation process, so no other Primordial (or Incarna) could ever do the same thing.
As for the Infernals, I'd really love a hardcover. I wasn't convinced with the Infernals-are-not-suited-for-roleplaying ad, and I think a whole book about Malfeas would be very interesting.
Kajata
Junior Member
I mean come on, if the Infernals aren't suited for RPing, what the HELL is the fae book doing out there?!
But that aside, I see the Infernals becoming the Yozis own exalted. Â After all, everyone else has a set, why shoudn't they? Â :wink:
I think that the Yozis will have some intrinsic control over the Infernal Shards, same way as deathlords do over abyssals, but I figure that they'll probably end up just being a whole new section of exalted, their power stemming from the Yozis as the Abyssal's does from the Malfeans. Â I also figure if anything they'll be the strongest type of Exalt yet because, a) there's only 50 of them and b) you've got full blown primordials working on them. Â Not gods, not intermediaries for dead primordials, not priests building them based on old designs. Â Primordials working directly with shards. Â I see that as making a big difference.
But that aside, I see the Infernals becoming the Yozis own exalted. Â After all, everyone else has a set, why shoudn't they? Â :wink:
I think that the Yozis will have some intrinsic control over the Infernal Shards, same way as deathlords do over abyssals, but I figure that they'll probably end up just being a whole new section of exalted, their power stemming from the Yozis as the Abyssal's does from the Malfeans. Â I also figure if anything they'll be the strongest type of Exalt yet because, a) there's only 50 of them and b) you've got full blown primordials working on them. Â Not gods, not intermediaries for dead primordials, not priests building them based on old designs. Â Primordials working directly with shards. Â I see that as making a big difference.
Obsidian Soul
Member
There are more than fifty Infernal Shards. Â The fifty that are qouted are the Solar Shards given to the Yozis from the lot that the Deathlords got from breaking the Jade Prison. Â There are also Infernal Solars from the First Age, Infernal Solars who fell because of temptation, Infernal Dragon-Blooded (probably Outcastes, though you never know), Infernal Lunars and Infernal Sidereals. Â There are no Infernal Abyssals or Alchemicals. Â The Infernals of the fifty could be considered 'true' Infernals, with some free will, while all of the other Infernals are Akuma, demigod slaves of the Yoxis. Â Theoretically, the Yozis could give an Infernal Shard to any of their mortal followers.
By this logic, Alchemicals would be the most powerful Exalts yet. And they're not. Maybe because they're prototypes, maybe because the construction is done by humans and Exalts... hmmm. Maybe your logic isn't as flawed as I thought.Kajata said:
Actually, the shards of living Exalts who go over to the Yozi do not end up in the possession of the Yozi after the Exalt's death. They reincarnate as normal Exalts, but the next incarnation has a 5-point Throwback flaw (PG: 89). However, there's certainly room in the setting for Solars who are still alive, having fled to Malfeas after the Usurpation.
Now them's scary pickles.
Obsidian Soul
Member
Sorry, my bad.
Yes a fifteen hundred plus year old Infernal Solar from the First Age would be frightening. Â Hopefully they can come out and play only during calibration.
Yes a fifteen hundred plus year old Infernal Solar from the First Age would be frightening. Â Hopefully they can come out and play only during calibration.
Lotus1
Member
Dude creation should be like gone by now, think about it, you got the Deathlords trying to destroy it. You got the Autochonians who want to freakin storm creation and loot it to survive.
You got the Yozi who want to corrupt everyone and everything and turn creation into the new hell. You got the Fair Folk who want to just ravange everything and return it to chaos. And lastly you got The Underbrood and Buried gods who just want to go forth to the surface and slaughter and make everyone pay. I mean i know their are checks and balances keeping them all from accomplishing their mission for now, but i mean if you have 5 guys all trying to kick your ass, and your friends who are supposed to be backin you up are alll gone, high, or fightning amoungst themselves... your gonna get your ass kicked.
You got the Yozi who want to corrupt everyone and everything and turn creation into the new hell. You got the Fair Folk who want to just ravange everything and return it to chaos. And lastly you got The Underbrood and Buried gods who just want to go forth to the surface and slaughter and make everyone pay. I mean i know their are checks and balances keeping them all from accomplishing their mission for now, but i mean if you have 5 guys all trying to kick your ass, and your friends who are supposed to be backin you up are alll gone, high, or fightning amoungst themselves... your gonna get your ass kicked.
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
It's not just that you've got five guys looking to kick your ass, but five guys who are looking to kick four of those five guys' asses as well.
They get in each others' way. Â The Malfeans and the Yozi work together at certain junctures, but the Malfeans want to end Creation, and the Yozi want to play with it again. Â The Fae have their own fucked up agenda, and they aren't sharing, and the other players, they have their own beef with all sorts of other critters.
If all of them could get together, then they might be really scary, but every one of these critters has their own agenda, and aren't above putting a boot to the ass of every one of their competitors before sticking it to the "hero."
They get in each others' way. Â The Malfeans and the Yozi work together at certain junctures, but the Malfeans want to end Creation, and the Yozi want to play with it again. Â The Fae have their own fucked up agenda, and they aren't sharing, and the other players, they have their own beef with all sorts of other critters.
If all of them could get together, then they might be really scary, but every one of these critters has their own agenda, and aren't above putting a boot to the ass of every one of their competitors before sticking it to the "hero."
Vanman
Two Thousand Club
Isn't this a limitation already? According to Blood and Salt, Dukantha can only come out to play during Calibration. Is this a weakness for all Infernals or just the big Duk? If it's a weakness for all of them, then that may be why the Infernals are not considered good PCs.