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In the Dojo (O.O.C. Chat - Session Zero)

How do you want us to record the double skill thing for our WPs? Something like WP Sword x2? Or with Specialty?
 
How do you want us to record the double skill thing for our WPs? Something like WP Sword x2? Or with Specialty?
Ooh, good question! Hmm. Let me experiment.

W.P. Large Sword (remember - in this game, swords come in large and small and they are separate Weapon Proficiencies).

W.P. Large Sword +2 (specialized)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (professional quality)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (intensive training)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (x2)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (double skill)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (double)

Whatever I choose, I'll have to have an additional qualifying statement for the Savior's special skill (like "double specialized, x3, or some such).

Kaerri Kaerri Psychie Psychie Sherwood Sherwood Silanon Silanon Any preferences?
 
I’m glad I brought this up. I’d say ….. how about WP Large Sword - Specialized? That shows the double skill bonus well enough I think.
 
I’m glad I brought this up. I’d say ….. how about WP Large Sword - Specialized? That shows the double skill bonus well enough I think.
"Specialized" is a term I first ran across in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons where Fighters could specialize in their chosen weapon and then double specialize later if they so desired. This is used in in future editions of D&D too.

It's easy for me to use, but I don't want to sway the conversation one way or another.
 
Also, please provide why you have focused your characters on the weapon proficiencies you've focused on?
Kiseko's main weapons are her knives, because knives are a pretty ordinary weapon, more easily concealable than others, and lethal when need be (OK, when not needed too, but you can always whack them with the hilt instead?). She prefers fighting with a pair of them, because it looks cool and for more practical reasons: if needed, she can use one to parry while attacking with the other, or use both to attack and force her opponent to defend against two blades at once.

She also has extra training in rope and grappling hook (as a weapon, but may help in noncombat too), short sword (because ninja-sword), forked weapons (i.e. sai, tridents), black powder (meaning antique firearms), and pistols.

...Ninjas come with a lot of WPs and so did half her skill packages. 😅 But finding places to put all those WP slots did inspire a new hobby (the antique firearms), so that's fun.

I forget if Rifts has a Hunting skill? If so, I don't mind including it in Other Strangeness.
I believe it's covered under Wilderness Survival?
 
Thank you for the peek into Kiseko's mind! She is practical as ever.

Ooh, good question! Hmm. Let me experiment.

W.P. Large Sword (remember - in this game, swords come in large and small and they are separate Weapon Proficiencies).

W.P. Large Sword +2 (specialized)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (professional quality)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (intensive training)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (x2)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (double skill)
W.P. Large Sword +2 (double)
Kaerri Kaerri What's your take on this?
 
Kaerri Kaerri What's your take on this?
Leaning towards "professional quality" for someone who's taken a W.P. twice, because you already have it so that someone who's taken another skill twice has professional-grade ability (as opposed to amateur). Like Hercules and cooking.

Maybe "specialized" for someone who's gotten that +3 from the Savior?
 
Leaning towards "professional quality" for someone who's taken a W.P. twice, because you already have it so that someone who's taken another skill twice has professional-grade ability (as opposed to amateur). Like Hercules and cooking.

Maybe "specialized" for someone who's gotten that +3 from the Savior?
Kaerri Kaerri I had thought about that too but "professional quality" means something differently among martial artists than it does for many other walks of life.

(I admit I hadn't gotten very far along with the thought when I must have been distracted by something else.)

I think I'm warming up to your idea - it's a good one in that is not only easy to understand but it uses Palladium rules-language.

What do you guys think? Psychie Psychie Sherwood Sherwood Silanon Silanon
 
It works for me. I just need do knuckle down and make the edits to Haoyu and get him all set. Shouldn’t take very long to do.
 
Honestly - I don't believe it matters much. It's just a word that shows up on the sheet and won't have relevance in the rp. Professional makes me think of bounty hunters and assassins, or soldiers - people who kill stuff as a profession. Not sure if that's intended, but it works nonetheless.
 
Honestly - I don't believe it matters much. It's just a word that shows up on the sheet and won't have relevance in the rp. Professional makes me think of bounty hunters and assassins, or soldiers - people who kill stuff as a profession. Not sure if that's intended, but it works nonetheless.
As a GM, it probably matters most to me. In my world, the difference between amateurs and professionals is night and day.

Although she hardly gets to display it, Shirley Mack in our Broadsword game has professional-level singing. This means there is nothing amateurish about her ability to sing. Even if she fails a Sing roll, the presence of professional level talent and skill is there (unless she Fumbles then, with the Mackenzie Curse, God help her! Heh!).

As for professional-level Skills in weapon use, the dilemma I have is purely one based on Real Life. In my Real Life, the line between "amateur-level" and "professional" martial arts is clear, but not so clear. A beginner in the martial arts might have terrific natural talent and take on someone who has less talent but more skill and they might end up in a draw! This is not the same thing as Skills that affect only a single person (say, a professional gymnastics routine, cooking session, or the teacher in your astrophysics course). But again, this is all personal and doesn't really affect our game.

I like the idea of "amateur" level training (+1 at 1st level), "professional" level training (a second Skill invested into it), and "specialized" (that Savior Special W.P. where your technique is clearly professional and often just plain "good." (The word "good" among martial artists of my experience is a special one. When your friend asks you if you think they can take on another martial artist, your response might well be, "that depends. How good are they?" or "is he or she any good?" It sums up a heck of a lot of content when the word is used in that way.)

But I don't think we've heard from Sherwood Sherwood just yet? What do you think of the Skills being described this way, Bud?
 
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So we are going with 'Amateur', 'Professional' and 'Specialized'? I ok with that.
 
So we are going with 'Amateur', 'Professional' and 'Specialized'? I ok with that.
Only if you too are all right with it - and you are! Cool! Thanks! =)

I have some edits to make. =)
 
As a GM, it probably matters most to me. In my world, the difference between amateurs and professionals is night and day.

Although she hardly gets to display it, Shirley Mack in our Broadsword game has professional-level singing. This means there is nothing amateurish about her ability to sing. Even if she fails a Sing roll, the presence of professional level talent and skill is there (unless she Fumbles then, with the Mackenzie Curse, God help her! Heh!).

As for professional-level Skills in weapon use, the dilemma I have is purely one based on Real Life. In my Real Life, the line between "amateur-level" and "professional" martial arts is clear, but not so clear. A beginner in the martial arts might have terrific natural talent and take on someone who has less talent but more skill and they might end up in a draw! This is not the same thing as Skills that affect only a single person (say, a professional gymnastics routine, cooking session, or the teacher in your astrophysics course). But again, this is all personal and doesn't really affect our game.

I like the idea of "amateur" level training (+1 at 1st level), "professional" level training (a second Skill invested into it), and "specialized" (that Savior Special W.P. where your technique is clearly professional and often just plain "good." (The word "good" among martial artists of my experience is a special one. When your friend asks you if you think they can take on another martial artist, your response might well be, "that depends. How good are they?" or "is he or she any good?" It sums up a heck of a lot of content when the word is used in that way.)

But I don't think we've heard from Sherwood Sherwood just yet? What do you think of the Skills being described this way, Bud?

The only objection I can see that this makes sense now, but down the road when we have a lot more levels under our belts, the difference will still be only +1 between amateur and professional. It feels a little silly to me to refer to a high-level character as an amateur who has (for example) a +5 in a W.P., while a level 1 character with +2 in that W.P. is called professional.
 
Kaerri Kaerri I think I get what you're saying here, because I've had this conversation with myself before.

I think there are both high-level amateurs and professionals out there (I can attest to this because in Real Life, I have worked with both).

All experience level really does is in this context is show how much time and effort one has in doing whatever they've been doing.

While the math looks the same on the character sheets, a wise Game Master takes into account the quality of training a person has. An amateur with a Skill at 98% might be as successful at completing a task as a professional of 98%, but the pro's results are, more often than not, going to win out in overall quality (or excellence if you prefer the word).

If you put their work side by side, one will notice the difference and, if both were to roll roughly the same numbers on percentile, the edge will go to the pro. At least, in my game.

That said, I think this is one of those gaming arguments (I mean that word scientifically here) that can become bogged down with all manner of "yeas" and "nays," so I prefer to keep it simple - I choose to look at the overall character.

Give me their experience level, their class, their intelligence quotient, their personality, their background and the like. I like to let that whole "painting of the character" if you will give me an idea of what kind of quality the character can or cannot produce.

It feels fun, fair, and simple-enough to me. =)

EDIT: Bottom line here though is - if somebody is willing to spend two Skills instead of one, I want that expenditure to be worthwhile and meaningful. =)
 
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