I found this on /tg/, I think this is the place to post it.
- Thread starter Burpcycle
- Start date
Quchu
One Thousand Club
...this is the best analogy of Creation's history I've seen so far. Wow
terrormortus
New Member
LOVE
Thanqol
Elder Member
I'm opposed to this out of ideology.
When the prank goes horribly, horribly wrong the freshmen all got hooked on crack and spent the next 20 years sitting around in a dark apartment, not talking to each other, not looking each other in the eye, and trying to stay permanently high so they never have to think about what happened and never see the mutilated, screaming faces of those people they murdered in their dreams. Gaia moved away in disgust, and Luna still cries about her when she comes down from a high.
'cause these Incarnae, they're not good people.
When the prank goes horribly, horribly wrong the freshmen all got hooked on crack and spent the next 20 years sitting around in a dark apartment, not talking to each other, not looking each other in the eye, and trying to stay permanently high so they never have to think about what happened and never see the mutilated, screaming faces of those people they murdered in their dreams. Gaia moved away in disgust, and Luna still cries about her when she comes down from a high.
'cause these Incarnae, they're not good people.
Thanqol
Elder Member
They were using it casually, but they weren't goddamn addicts like these stoners.Fabricati said:
Then crack is probably the wrong analogy, that stuff is addictive as hell.Thanqol said:
But then I think that's a little too dark in general. And could someone explain to me why everyone thinks Gaia flew the coop again?
Philosophically, I consider Creation's future a little brighter than that. Maybe it's just me?
Thanqol
Elder Member
Are you kidding!?Fabricati said:
HALF of the Primordials were brutally murdered. And they didn't die there, oh no. They persisted as screaming, insane ghosts. The other half were maimed. They had their skins ripped off, their eyes pulled out, their hands severed and were sewn together into a fleshy mass of agony and insanity for all eternity. Imagine being imprisoned inside the ribcage of your best friend, unable to do anything except hear him scream whenever you so much as shift your weight. And imagine being there for so long that you come to either enjoy his screaming or hate him so much that you thrash around blindly to cause him as much pain as possible so he might someday shut up.
You can not imagine what was done to them. Your human mind can not even consider the ramifications of your lobotomy, your torture, your horrifying fleshsculpting.
And you forced these defeated, broken, agonized beings to swear to your boots that this unthinkable crime was just and deserved.
Creation is as horrifyingly grimdark as it gets.
krrackknut
Member
At least Beasts of Resplendent Liquids are funny.Thanqol said:
Yes, laugh! Laugh at the plight of your former masters! Laugh and hide your heart from the world that none may touch it! Lock your compassion in the deepest vault you can find!
Because there's nothing left to do.
Let them out now, and there will be nothing left.
So laugh. Because if you can't laugh at pain, or your own or others, there is nothing at all you can laugh at.
Besides, the Primordials weren't all sunshine and daisies either.
It's not like they couldn't have, say, you know, had the Incarnae be able to find some happiness in their lives. Or paid them. You're talking about beings that decided to be the laziest possible jerks they could be and even gave the Incarnae the illusion of free will with none of the perks. The Incarnae were killed. The Incarnae were Mutilated. Even Gaia and Autokon weren't exempt- Gaia was slain to form Creation just as Malfeas was slain to form Hell, and well, Autokon was never very popular.
And guess what? This was millenia before the war of the primordials.
So yeah, maybe it's true the Incarnae aren't the nicest people.
But after how the Primordials made them, what else could they be?
And just giving it back won't fix things, either. The ghosts will just try to suck everything in with them, and the insane will just reduce Gaia to her component parts out of spite.
So someone has to come in and fix this. And it's not going to be Gaia, who is too busy trying to preserve her failing sense of self. It's not going to be Autokon, who can barely keep himself alive because he's too afraid of everyone else and has locked himself in his room.
And for all I hate the analogy, you're right, the Incarnae are hooked on the bud and won't look up from the bong long enough to fix things either.
So guess who got the job.
YOU.
That's where the game begins.
That's why I think the future is brighter than you think.
Because, yeah, the Exalted may be the proverbial middle schoolers in the analogy.
But even idiot middle schoolers sometimes get good ideas.
It's not like they couldn't have, say, you know, had the Incarnae be able to find some happiness in their lives. Or paid them. You're talking about beings that decided to be the laziest possible jerks they could be and even gave the Incarnae the illusion of free will with none of the perks. The Incarnae were killed. The Incarnae were Mutilated. Even Gaia and Autokon weren't exempt- Gaia was slain to form Creation just as Malfeas was slain to form Hell, and well, Autokon was never very popular.
And guess what? This was millenia before the war of the primordials.
So yeah, maybe it's true the Incarnae aren't the nicest people.
But after how the Primordials made them, what else could they be?
And just giving it back won't fix things, either. The ghosts will just try to suck everything in with them, and the insane will just reduce Gaia to her component parts out of spite.
So someone has to come in and fix this. And it's not going to be Gaia, who is too busy trying to preserve her failing sense of self. It's not going to be Autokon, who can barely keep himself alive because he's too afraid of everyone else and has locked himself in his room.
And for all I hate the analogy, you're right, the Incarnae are hooked on the bud and won't look up from the bong long enough to fix things either.
So guess who got the job.
YOU.
That's where the game begins.
That's why I think the future is brighter than you think.
Because, yeah, the Exalted may be the proverbial middle schoolers in the analogy.
But even idiot middle schoolers sometimes get good ideas.
krrackknut
Member
Who the hell is going to do it, if not us, after all?
Thanqol
Elder Member
I contest that the Incarnae were ever killed. Such a statement defies logic. Or that they weren't paid. They were given complete dominion over the Blessed Isle, for one, and thus rulership of the world. None of the perks? I don't know about you but AMBROSIA is a pretty big perk. And also gimme a page reference on killing Gaia, because I call lies on that too.
And I'm totally with you on the idea that freeing the Yozi is the dumbest thing anyone could do. Because they are insane.
But this is shit that you guys broke. And breaking things is easy. If you guys wanted, you could break Creation right now. Snap it over your knee and throw the smouldering ruins into the Wyld. It'll stop the other guys getting control of it, right? And those ruins will accept you as lord and master for the few hours until they finish burning, so it'll all be worth it. Right?
Even if you don't agree with this philosophy, EVERY. OTHER. PERSON. ON. THE. PLANET. DOES.
So you want to fix things, huh? You want to make the world a better place? Good luck with that. Because this fucked up ruin, that's you breaking the world. You said things would be different, things would be better once you were in charge. Then you were, and that's exactly what the guys below you said. And now you're gonna break the world again because only once you're in charge will you be able to finally fix it.
And yet, you never, NEVER understand.
Breaking things is easy.
Fixing things is hard.
And I'm totally with you on the idea that freeing the Yozi is the dumbest thing anyone could do. Because they are insane.
But this is shit that you guys broke. And breaking things is easy. If you guys wanted, you could break Creation right now. Snap it over your knee and throw the smouldering ruins into the Wyld. It'll stop the other guys getting control of it, right? And those ruins will accept you as lord and master for the few hours until they finish burning, so it'll all be worth it. Right?
Even if you don't agree with this philosophy, EVERY. OTHER. PERSON. ON. THE. PLANET. DOES.
So you want to fix things, huh? You want to make the world a better place? Good luck with that. Because this fucked up ruin, that's you breaking the world. You said things would be different, things would be better once you were in charge. Then you were, and that's exactly what the guys below you said. And now you're gonna break the world again because only once you're in charge will you be able to finally fix it.
And yet, you never, NEVER understand.
Breaking things is easy.
Fixing things is hard.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
*pats Thanqol's back* There there, there there. Breathe.
Thanqol
Elder Member
*Takes deep breaths, mumbling about cosmic injustice*
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
So, Thanq, as a matter of interest, what would you say is the best possible end in the game?
(dinotopia)
(dinotopia)
Thanqol
Elder Member
Actually, yes.
The best possible end to the game is where the Dragon Kings are restored to power, and humanity enters their service once again. Where they give up their false claim to power and return to the meaning of life, which is to serve. Human civilization proper is a lie, a false elevation to a role people aren't suited for. What each person wants, in their deepest heart, is to hunt together in the primal jungle.
Because it's not about ruling the world. It's about realizing your place in it. It's not about defying your limits. It's about embracing them.
That's Enlightenment.
The best possible end to the game is where the Dragon Kings are restored to power, and humanity enters their service once again. Where they give up their false claim to power and return to the meaning of life, which is to serve. Human civilization proper is a lie, a false elevation to a role people aren't suited for. What each person wants, in their deepest heart, is to hunt together in the primal jungle.
Because it's not about ruling the world. It's about realizing your place in it. It's not about defying your limits. It's about embracing them.
That's Enlightenment.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
Well, let's get on the program to churn out more DK souls, because they're kind of fucked at the moment.
Thanqol
Elder Member
Aasharu
Member
Sir, I respectfully reject your vision, and will fight you to the death to keep it from coming to pass. The true path to peace in the world lies with the curing of the Great Curse, and then the restoration of the Solar Deliberative. Your claims to the contrary reveal you to be no more then a puppet to the Yozi's, fit only to be destroyed to demonstrate their impotency.Thanqol said:
(I imagine this is why the world of Exalted is so fucked up to begin with: 2 or more super powered individuals having differences in opinion.)
Ker'ion
Primordial of Abstract Logic
A fight to the death then?
*pulling out the video camera*
Besides, making more souls is a right pain in the ass.
How about making a breed of DKs that use human souls?
Or a Soul Converter to make new DK souls out of old human souls.
<.< >.>
Looking for the DK-master...
*pulling out the video camera*
Besides, making more souls is a right pain in the ass.
How about making a breed of DKs that use human souls?
Or a Soul Converter to make new DK souls out of old human souls.
<.< >.>
Looking for the DK-master...
Thanqol
Elder Member
You believe a bunch of 5,000 year old, all powerful, unquestionable demigods need the Great Curse to be crazy? Individuals, who I remind you, can brainwash entire nations with minimal effort? Individuals without accountability or morality, individuals who in unison would have little trouble casting down the Incarnae and the inclination to do so?Aasharu said:
No, sir. Creation needs a dictatorship, but it requires one which was designed to be benevolent - as in the case of the Dragon Kings. The criteria for selecting the Solar Exalted looks for anything but benevolence. Your blind recommendation would damn us all to first a world of Solar reign, and then a world where the Solar Exalted wage eternal war against each other out of divine boredom.
The Great Curse is simply a vessel for you to remove accountability for your excesses. The truth remains that humans are not designed for, nor prepared for rulership. And they never will be.
Added to that is that Peace is an unworthy goal. Adversity is what strengthens men's souls and makes things worthwhile. The Ebon Dragon wrote this truth and, denounce him as a liar if you must, he wrote that into the foundation of reality as Truth. And this is what it comes down to; the Universe itself denies the Mandate of the Solar Exalted, no matter what empty words Heaven mouths. No matter how many times the cycle of Usurpation comes and goes, the Exalted will never fix it.
This is the task of the Infernals.
Draw your daiklave.
[Except there's 700+ superpowered individuals, plus Terrestrials plus Primordials and every darn one of them has a different opinion. Difference is I'm right]
Ker'ion
Primordial of Abstract Logic
You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!Thanqol said:
Aasharu
Member
You misunderstand me, sir. I too admire the Infernals, but for a far different reason then you. The Infernals represent the failings of the Yozis, once again made manifest, that will be their undoing.
The Yozis have none to blame but themselves for their fall. They crafted a world that no longer needs them. All things strive, and humans most of all. Humans were made to aspire, to strive to become more then what they are, and that is what makes them truly great. To kneel in submission, you become less then a beast, you become a thing, an object to be possessed and used by those who are greater then you. This is also a truth, written into Creation. The Primordials crafted free will, and thus, doomed themselves into obsolescence. Humanity, as a whole, must grasp at perfection, else they are not human. Perhaps they will fail, but far better to reach beyond yourself and fail, then to kneel and say it cannot be done.
In crafting the Green Sun Princes, the Yozis have inadvertently crafted the proof of this. Withing every Prince lies the ability to both mimic, and one day surpass, the Yozis. The Infernals will exceed their erstwhile masters, and then, once and for all, prove that they are no longer necessary.
Perhaps a reborn Deliberative will fail. Perhaps you are correct, and the human soul cannot contain such power and remain sane. But the Great Curse, that last, spiteful act by beings unable to accept their own failings, turns the failure of the Exalted from a possibility to a certainty. A new Deliberative must be allowed to rise, unhindered by the Great Curse, so that humanity may once again strive for perfection. The Great Curse must be abolished, for it must be the human soul, coupled with Exalted will, alone, that achieves such perfection. If they fail, so be it; they will have failed because they were human, not because of the cosmic spite of a group of failed beings.
My will is strong, and I will not falter. I draw my Daiklave; if you believe me to be false, then attempt to strike me down, and we shall see who shall emerge triumphant.
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I believe one of the writers once mentioned that, as Infernals grow in power, they become more and more Primordial in their outlook and mindset, believing that theirs is the only opinion that truly matters in the world. We're good evidence of that, aren't we?
(Actually, you know what we should do? Make a pair of Infernals, specked out to represent our competing philosophies, then have a neutral storyteller establish a place where we can fight it out, and see who wins.)
The Yozis have none to blame but themselves for their fall. They crafted a world that no longer needs them. All things strive, and humans most of all. Humans were made to aspire, to strive to become more then what they are, and that is what makes them truly great. To kneel in submission, you become less then a beast, you become a thing, an object to be possessed and used by those who are greater then you. This is also a truth, written into Creation. The Primordials crafted free will, and thus, doomed themselves into obsolescence. Humanity, as a whole, must grasp at perfection, else they are not human. Perhaps they will fail, but far better to reach beyond yourself and fail, then to kneel and say it cannot be done.
In crafting the Green Sun Princes, the Yozis have inadvertently crafted the proof of this. Withing every Prince lies the ability to both mimic, and one day surpass, the Yozis. The Infernals will exceed their erstwhile masters, and then, once and for all, prove that they are no longer necessary.
Perhaps a reborn Deliberative will fail. Perhaps you are correct, and the human soul cannot contain such power and remain sane. But the Great Curse, that last, spiteful act by beings unable to accept their own failings, turns the failure of the Exalted from a possibility to a certainty. A new Deliberative must be allowed to rise, unhindered by the Great Curse, so that humanity may once again strive for perfection. The Great Curse must be abolished, for it must be the human soul, coupled with Exalted will, alone, that achieves such perfection. If they fail, so be it; they will have failed because they were human, not because of the cosmic spite of a group of failed beings.
My will is strong, and I will not falter. I draw my Daiklave; if you believe me to be false, then attempt to strike me down, and we shall see who shall emerge triumphant.
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I believe one of the writers once mentioned that, as Infernals grow in power, they become more and more Primordial in their outlook and mindset, believing that theirs is the only opinion that truly matters in the world. We're good evidence of that, aren't we?
(Actually, you know what we should do? Make a pair of Infernals, specked out to represent our competing philosophies, then have a neutral storyteller establish a place where we can fight it out, and see who wins.)
Thanqol
Elder Member
You dare judge the Primordials? They are the beings who crafted the World. They are the beings who gave you colour, distance, breath, sight, independence, friendship, love. That they fell to the Exalted does not prove that the Exalted were greater than the Primordials; it does not prove the supremacy of humankind or the ascendency of your vaunted free will.
What it does prove is that the Exalted are good at killing things.
That is all it proves.
And the fact that in their reign the world has been broken, and lessened, and broken and lessened yet again is proof enough that they will never be more than what they are.
I have said it since the beginning; it is easier to break something than to fix it; easier to kill than to create. And what have the Exalted Created? Tell me, what legends of Exalted heroism shall you tell me? Shall you show me examples of their wondrous crafts and achievements, or will you tell me of their wars?
Look, then, to Meru. Height of their greatness! The Imperial Mountain, where once Sol held court! An irradiated wasteland! Look, then, to the West! Continents have been lost. The Direction is empty due to the genocidal purges of the aquatic races that once lived there. Look, then, to the vast markers that denote one of the mass graves of the Contagion! Look, then, to the Scavenger Lands, where men and Exalts alike pick through the ruins of a greater time for further weapons of war to assist them in breaking the world one last time.
The Primordials, however. They are Creators. And for their temporal sins they were consigned to an infinite punishment. Eternity in Hell, no escape, no mercy, no respite. Forever. Even Malfeas, at his most cruel and insane, damns his enemies to only ten thousand years of torture. Where can we see such mercy in the Exalted? Does the mere fact that we may one day surpass the Primordials on the back of stolen power give us moral absolution to do anything we want?
This insane, fundamentally Evil punishment was crafted before the Great Curse. And there is no other thing in the world which is as unequivocally Evil as what was done to those who surrendered to the righteous armies of the Solars.
But... they do not chose Exalted for their perspective, do they? They do not chose them for their empathy, their compassion, their ability to create. No, face the fact: An Exaltation is a weapon. Not a mandate. Not a blessing. Not even a way to fix the world. It is a weapon, and it destroys. Envy your Daiklave, for it has no delusions as to it's function.
Come then. Let's see which one of us is ready to be the bigger monster.
Daishi hisses in my hand, as soft as velvet, eager for the fight. Green fire runs along her length and she whispers sweet lies to me as I drop into a high guarding stance. She tells me that perhaps the next incarnation will be more pliable. That there must be a short, sharp sacrifice before the healing can begin. She tells me that while the cycle of Usurpation will continue forever at the hands of the Exalted, it will stop once the Yozi are free at last.
I enjoy her lies. She is forged of Malfeas' bones and instilled with a drop of his hate. She has been constant companion to me these years, and keeps me on the road of salvation. She gives me the determination I need to make each step.
And yet, all roads lead to ruin. It won't be different this time. It won't ever be different, no matter who says the words.
I cast the sword aside, and prepare to die at the Solar's hand.
*
Depends on the Primordial they're attempting to emulate! Some Primordials really do believe other people matter.
(Scene can be done more dramatically through text rather than mechanics.)
What it does prove is that the Exalted are good at killing things.
That is all it proves.
And the fact that in their reign the world has been broken, and lessened, and broken and lessened yet again is proof enough that they will never be more than what they are.
I have said it since the beginning; it is easier to break something than to fix it; easier to kill than to create. And what have the Exalted Created? Tell me, what legends of Exalted heroism shall you tell me? Shall you show me examples of their wondrous crafts and achievements, or will you tell me of their wars?
Look, then, to Meru. Height of their greatness! The Imperial Mountain, where once Sol held court! An irradiated wasteland! Look, then, to the West! Continents have been lost. The Direction is empty due to the genocidal purges of the aquatic races that once lived there. Look, then, to the vast markers that denote one of the mass graves of the Contagion! Look, then, to the Scavenger Lands, where men and Exalts alike pick through the ruins of a greater time for further weapons of war to assist them in breaking the world one last time.
The Primordials, however. They are Creators. And for their temporal sins they were consigned to an infinite punishment. Eternity in Hell, no escape, no mercy, no respite. Forever. Even Malfeas, at his most cruel and insane, damns his enemies to only ten thousand years of torture. Where can we see such mercy in the Exalted? Does the mere fact that we may one day surpass the Primordials on the back of stolen power give us moral absolution to do anything we want?
This insane, fundamentally Evil punishment was crafted before the Great Curse. And there is no other thing in the world which is as unequivocally Evil as what was done to those who surrendered to the righteous armies of the Solars.
But... they do not chose Exalted for their perspective, do they? They do not chose them for their empathy, their compassion, their ability to create. No, face the fact: An Exaltation is a weapon. Not a mandate. Not a blessing. Not even a way to fix the world. It is a weapon, and it destroys. Envy your Daiklave, for it has no delusions as to it's function.
Come then. Let's see which one of us is ready to be the bigger monster.
Daishi hisses in my hand, as soft as velvet, eager for the fight. Green fire runs along her length and she whispers sweet lies to me as I drop into a high guarding stance. She tells me that perhaps the next incarnation will be more pliable. That there must be a short, sharp sacrifice before the healing can begin. She tells me that while the cycle of Usurpation will continue forever at the hands of the Exalted, it will stop once the Yozi are free at last.
I enjoy her lies. She is forged of Malfeas' bones and instilled with a drop of his hate. She has been constant companion to me these years, and keeps me on the road of salvation. She gives me the determination I need to make each step.
And yet, all roads lead to ruin. It won't be different this time. It won't ever be different, no matter who says the words.
I cast the sword aside, and prepare to die at the Solar's hand.
*
Depends on the Primordial they're attempting to emulate! Some Primordials really do believe other people matter.
(Scene can be done more dramatically through text rather than mechanics.)
Aasharu
Member
You speak to me of the crafting of virtues by the Primordials? Of sight and love, valor and free will? None of these concepts were designed to aid or empower humanity, no, they were created, as were all things, for one reason. To make the playground more interesting.
Your oh-so-vaunted Primordials did not craft the world for any reason beyond that they wanted a place to play, a stable realm to enjoy themselves in. Humanity is a toy, to be abused and discarded when their attention wanes. They gave us free will, so that we might be terrified of them, live in constant fear, so that our prayers would taste sweeter. And yet, that very "gift" is what allowed us to decide to throw off the yoke of those that kept us in fear.
The cycle of usurpation you speak of is not caused by the Exalted, or any mortal or divine hand. It was caused by the Primordials alone. The last vengeful gasps of the Neverborn, the final spiteful act of She Who Lives In Her Name, these are the actions that broke the world. It is by their will that the world be doomed to an endless cycle of destruction. Not content to allow any others to enjoy their playground, they seek to ruin it instead. Perhaps, if allowed to return, they could repair the world, restore it, but to do so would require kneeling to them, submitting to their temper tantrum, and this they do not deserve.
And perhaps the Exalted began as weapons, but you overlook; even when Exalted, we retain free will. No Exalt has to be a weapon, for we, all of us, can choose to be otherwise.
But to speak of Evil, consider the vile nature of crafting a world of intelligent, free thinking beings for no purpose other then to use, abuse, and discard them for your own purpose.
I watch as the Infernal's blade falls, then look at him and smile as I sheathe my sword. "We are at an impasse, then. Neither of us wish to throw the first strike, for fear of proving our opponent right."
I step back and spread my arms. "But you are a servant, bound to the will of your vile masters. I have my free will, and choose not to strike. You, however, are the true tool, and are now given a chance to fulfill your purpose. So strike me down, slave. Be the weapon you have chosen to be, while I will remain a free man.
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See, I always gathered that, by nature, the Primordials were incapable of understanding that the views and opinions of others had any value whatsoever.
Also, as a side note, this is rather fun, although I can't see either of us changing each others minds any time soon.
Your oh-so-vaunted Primordials did not craft the world for any reason beyond that they wanted a place to play, a stable realm to enjoy themselves in. Humanity is a toy, to be abused and discarded when their attention wanes. They gave us free will, so that we might be terrified of them, live in constant fear, so that our prayers would taste sweeter. And yet, that very "gift" is what allowed us to decide to throw off the yoke of those that kept us in fear.
The cycle of usurpation you speak of is not caused by the Exalted, or any mortal or divine hand. It was caused by the Primordials alone. The last vengeful gasps of the Neverborn, the final spiteful act of She Who Lives In Her Name, these are the actions that broke the world. It is by their will that the world be doomed to an endless cycle of destruction. Not content to allow any others to enjoy their playground, they seek to ruin it instead. Perhaps, if allowed to return, they could repair the world, restore it, but to do so would require kneeling to them, submitting to their temper tantrum, and this they do not deserve.
And perhaps the Exalted began as weapons, but you overlook; even when Exalted, we retain free will. No Exalt has to be a weapon, for we, all of us, can choose to be otherwise.
But to speak of Evil, consider the vile nature of crafting a world of intelligent, free thinking beings for no purpose other then to use, abuse, and discard them for your own purpose.
I watch as the Infernal's blade falls, then look at him and smile as I sheathe my sword. "We are at an impasse, then. Neither of us wish to throw the first strike, for fear of proving our opponent right."
I step back and spread my arms. "But you are a servant, bound to the will of your vile masters. I have my free will, and choose not to strike. You, however, are the true tool, and are now given a chance to fulfill your purpose. So strike me down, slave. Be the weapon you have chosen to be, while I will remain a free man.
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See, I always gathered that, by nature, the Primordials were incapable of understanding that the views and opinions of others had any value whatsoever.
Also, as a side note, this is rather fun, although I can't see either of us changing each others minds any time soon.
