Hey, the Wiki needs your love! [[Offical WW Contest!]]

[wordman]

I was specifically addressing the encyclopedia commentary...

And you did this where? I see no reference to my encyclopedia commentary. You mention something about reference to rules at the end, but this isn't what I'm talking about at all.

 

[Bodhisattva]

But, as I've said, nothing goes on the Official Wiki unless we, the contributors, put it up there. democritus and I have been working to make the Official Exalted Wiki an excellent resource for finding stuff from the books - but where it's falling short is that there are so few users contributing to it on a consistent basis that finding everything you want is difficult. Some stuff is up there, some isn't.
That's the driving force behind this Improvement Drive. I want to get people using this wiki so that you're not waiting on people like myself, StarHawk and democritus (and the other current users of the Exalted Wiki) to get all this information entered. If we can get more people using the wiki, it will become a much better resource for everyone. I already use it to find information on Charms that I don't know the page number of, or what the general effect is. I put up every single spell in second edition. Other users have worked to make the wiki a much more useful resource - and I want to see more and more people on there making it better and better.


I want the wiki to be as popular as Wookieepedia or the WoWWiki. We've got enough fans out there. They just need to come to the wiki and contribute a little bit.


THE EXALTED WIKI WANTS YOU!

How about all of this?

 

[wordman]

democritus and I have been working to make the Official Exalted Wiki an excellent resource for finding stuff from the books

I guess you are talking about this particular line. The rest of it is all stuff about not enough posters, which is already clear. What I was basically saying is "wouldn't it be nice if the White Wolf wiki differentiated itself by pitching itself an almanac of sorts for the Exalted setting".


Now, you could have replied with something like "actually, we do a bit of that already. If you want to join in with what we have now, here is how...". That would have been useful.


Instead, you posted a vaguely reactionary speech about how misguided people are who fear that White Wolf will steal their content (a fear I do not have, and have never voiced). This was many things, but useful wasn't one of them.


Something else that would be useful would be a clear statement of how you think the official wiki is/will be/should be different than the others. I've suggested that it focus hard on the "almanac" angle, but it seems that you don't agree with that focus. So, a) what do you think the focus is and b) how would people interested in your contest best advance that agenda?

 

[Bodhisattva]

Something else that would be useful would be a clear statement of how you think the official wiki is/will be/should be different than the others. I've suggested that it focus hard on the "almanac" angle, but it seems that you don't agree with that focus. So, a) what do you think the focus is and b) how would people interested in your contest best advance that agenda?

I'll focus on this, since the accusatory tone of your posts really doesn't advance conversation in a positive fashion.


This wiki is meant to be a resource for finding everything you need to reference in Exalted. We can't reprint the materials of the books, obviously, but getting a general sense of what things are and where to find them is really the main point of the wiki. It's also a place to showcase fan-works as a central warehouse for such things. Think of Wookieepedia as a good example of this, or the WoWWiki.


As for advancing the agenda by means of the contest, you have two options:

1. You can either contribute official content by synthesis in the appropriate locations (see the links I posted in the contest guidelines to the Charms or Characters as examples)
   
2. or, you can contribute your own fan-created works. It'll go along with that warehousing bit I referenced.

 

[wordman]

This wiki is meant to be a resource for finding everything you need to reference in Exalted. We can't reprint the materials of the books, obviously, but getting a general sense of what things are and where to find them is really the main point of the wiki.

So, are you saying then that you already consider the focus of this wiki to be the almanac/concordance thing that I'm talking about?

 

[Bodhisattva]

That was very much the purpose to which democritus focused it, yes. I am continuing that focus.

 

[wordman]

How have you gone about communicating that focus to people? The contest description, for example, doesn't give that impression.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Unfortunately, I do not have rights to edit the main page to express that, but I can e-mail someone who can do it for me (provided I'm not bugging him too much).


As for what the contest is, it is exactly what it says it is. If you want to make it a better encyclopedic resource, you may do so. If you wish to post your own fan-crafted works, you may do so. The contest implies all of this, rather than saying it explicitly.

 

[wordman]

Another suggestion, since I have your attention: if the intent is to make an encyclopedia/index type thing, seriously consider adding semantic plugins into the wiki, before too many more pages are added. These plugins make MediaWiki significantly more powerful, especially for the sort of cross linking needed for an encyclopedia.


As an example, most of the pages about cities that you have now contain links to the region that contains them. For example, your Nexus has a link like [[scavenger Lands]] in it. With the semantic features, you can change these links to contain information about why the link exists, like this: [[region::Scavenger Lands]]. Then, on the Scavenger Lands page, you can change the "Places of Note" section from the hand-coded list it has now to a query that will automatically list all the pages that contain [[region::Scavenger Lands]] links.


Doing this would create a significant differentiating feature for the official wiki. The prevalent use of templates in the official wiki would also help you leverage the semantic stuff more quickly.

 

[Bodhisattva]

That's certainly something I (or you) can suggest to White Wolf.

 

[wordman]

That's certainly something [you] can suggest to White Wolf...

...again.
Honestly, though, unless the "leaders" of the wiki use it, there wouldn't be much point.

 

[Bodhisattva]

We can't use it if it's not installed.

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

SO how's the contest going? I couldn't think of much stuff to add, other than some personal ideas on how to not use the Great Curse... But since the word count is so high, why bother!

 

[Bodhisattva]

SO how's the contest going? I couldn't think of much stuff to add' date=' other than some personal ideas on how to not use the Great Curse... But since the [b']word[/b] count is so high, why bother!

Good sir, you had to read the contest rules more clearly. We were not going by word count. We were going by character count, and 30,000 characters equates to roughly 5,000 words. If 5,000 words over the course of 30 days was too much for you, I'm sorry, but we cannot help you.


As it stands, we got well over 1 Megabyte of new information (and since each character is a single byte of information, that's over 1,048,576 characters or roughly 174,762 words of new information. We're still tabulating results and I'm waiting on my third judge to finish before posting the results. We've had over a dozen qualifiers (that 30,000 character count), so all-in-all, I'd consider it a success. Let's hope that White Wolf did as well and maybe they'll do it again.

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

Oops, I missed that. About 5000 words might be doable for next time.


A full meg of new information is good... I would like to see there be a good official wiki, that way the game designers can get a better idea of what players think of the system, new areas for improvement etc.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Oops, I missed that. About 5000 words might be doable for next time.
A full meg of new information is good... I would like to see there be a good official wiki, that way the game designers can get a better idea of what players think of the system, new areas for improvement etc.

Ummm... I've got news for you. The wiki isn't exactly built for game designers. It's really set up to be a repository for information, not for "this is how to design things for Exalted", although there are some essays to that effect that could be helpful for players. However, it's not a system for giving feedback to those who write for the games. We already know where we need improvement and where players need to achieve understanding of what was written - like some people not understanding how the Yozi Excellencies that the Infernal Exalted use work when you raise your Essence and why, for example. The wiki is a resource more for players than for writers.


However, without people getting on it and putting up information (either from the books or their own custom information), the resource is wasted. Not useless, wasted. However, thanks to the ongoing efforts of a number of contributors, the wiki has acquired a lot more information on both canon and non-canon subjects lately. Some day, it would be awesome if we could make the wiki more like some other "encyclopedic" wikis out there (Wookieepedia comes to mind) with regard to Exalted. We're working toward that goal. I hope that you'll be interested and willing to contribute to help us reach our goal. Thanks.

 

[wordman]

We already know where we need improvement and where players need to achieve understanding of what was written

it would be awesome if we could make the wiki more like some other "encyclopedic" wikis out there

Is the second "we" here the same "we" as the first "we"?

 

[Bodhisattva]

We already know where we need improvement and where players need to achieve understanding of what was written

it would be awesome if we could make the wiki more like some other "encyclopedic" wikis out there

Is the second "we" here the same "we" as the first "we"?

No, it is not. The first "we" refers to the writers, while the second "we" refers to the contributors to the Exalted Wiki (of which no less than five writers have contributed to).

 

[wordman]

No, it is not.

Just a suggestion then: when you are trying to make a recruiting pitch (like the one in your second paragraph), you might have more success if you kept the snarky, exclusionary, semi-elitism of the first paragraph to yourself. At present, it's one of the main reasons that people doing fan work that I respect are either not doing it on the official wiki, or no longer are.
(I sort of expected someone with the gall to call himself "Bodhisattva" to have figured that out on his own.)

 

[Bodhisattva]

No, it is not.

Just a suggestion then: when you are trying to make a recruiting pitch (like the one in your second paragraph), you might have more success if you kept the snarky, exclusionary, semi-elitism of the first paragraph to yourself. At present, it's one of the main reasons that people doing fan work that I respect are either not doing it on the official wiki, or no longer are.
(I sort of expected someone with the gall to call himself "Bodhisattva" to have figured that out on his own.)

You read the "snarky, exclusionary, semi-elitism" into it, Wordman, and I could probably say something related to your moniker as well, but that would be equally as "snarky, exclusionary, semi-elitist" and condescending as you've been about the Official Exalted Wiki.


As for the aforementioned first paragraph, I game with one of those authors weekly and talk regularly with three more about what they're doing with the books, what they plan on doing in the future, what areas of improvement are needed... Believe me, we know (and by we, I mean the authors I communicate with). We know what works and what doesn't work because we read the comments people make on various forums and talk with some of the people who make them.


However, I care little for your opinions in this matter, Wordman. It's very clear that you've shown hostility toward the Official Exalted Wiki all throughout this thread, and I suspect, in any number of places. You do not have to participate, and you don't. You do not have to respond here, and yet you do. Your disdain for the Wiki is readily apparent and crystal clear. It's unfortunate that you have so little respect for those who play in sandboxes you choose not to, but that's your prerogative. When you speak of gall, sir, yours is overwhelming in the face of what you assumed to be mine.


Good day to you, sir.

 

[wordman]

I care little for your opinions in this matter, Wordman.

Well, then this won't matter...

It's unfortunate that you have so little respect for those who play in sandboxes you choose not to

What you may not realize is that I, too, think this is unfortunate. I'd would very much like the official wiki to be useful to me. When it first started, while I worried (as I mentioned before) about its lack of clearly defined purpose, what really prevented me from posting was White Wolf's flighty IT track record. At the time, there was really no reason to suspect that a lot of hard work put into the wiki wouldn't just be wasted by WW just pulling the plug for inscrutable reasons. Their web presence has gotten a bit better since, but in the intervening time it became clear that the culture that evolved on the site wasn't really one that seemed "positive" to me, or worth my investment into it. So, it's not so much of case of me having "so little respect" because someone "plays in a sandbox I choose not to", it's a case of me choosing not to play in a sandbox because I lack respect for some of those "running" it.
How many people have been kicked out of this sandbox since it started? One? Three? More? How many have silently left in disgust?


What makes an on-line community strong is not how many people contribute to it. It is how that community deals with dissenting opinions. It seems the official wiki's answer to that question is "not well", from what I have seen of it. Some, who I do respect, were not welcome there, so I suspect I would not be either (a feeling only reinforced by your previous post).


That isn't how you build a community.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I care little for your opinions in this matter, Wordman.

Well, then this won't matter...

It's unfortunate that you have so little respect for those who play in sandboxes you choose not to

What you may not realize is that I, too, think this is unfortunate. I'd would very much like the official wiki to be useful to me. When it first started, while I worried (as I mentioned before) about its lack of clearly defined purpose, what really prevented me from posting was White Wolf's flighty IT track record. At the time, there was really no reason to suspect that a lot of hard work put into the wiki wouldn't just be wasted by WW just pulling the plug for inscrutable reasons. Their web presence has gotten a bit better since, but in the intervening time it became clear that the culture that evolved on the site wasn't really one that seemed "positive" to me, or worth my investment into it. So, it's not so much of case of me having "so little respect" because someone "plays in a sandbox I choose not to", it's a case of me choosing not to play in a sandbox because I lack respect for some of those "running" it.
How many people have been kicked out of this sandbox since it started? One? Three? More? How many have silently left in disgust?


What makes an on-line community strong is not how many people contribute to it. It is how that community deals with dissenting opinions. It seems the official wiki's answer to that question is "not well", from what I have seen of it. Some, who I do respect, were not welcome there, so I suspect I would not be either (a feeling only reinforced by your previous post).


That isn't how you build a community.

Nor is how you've been acting regarding the Exalted Wiki, and I saw that you acted in similar fashion on ExaltedWiki (at least until Shataina called you on it, and perhaps after...).


The dispute between TheHoverpope (the only user who wasn't a spam-bot ever to be banned from the site) and Conrad Hubbard is a non-issue, because Conrad doesn't run the site anymore and TheHoverpope isn't banned. He last posted on March 9th of 2009. Also, so far as any who have silently left in disgust, such as yourself because you saw red links (still up on your user page), how many have silently left ExaltedWiki in disgust, or ECR, or the White Wolf Forums, or Fixalted, or RPG.net, or TheFreedomStone? If they silently left in disgust, then no one would really know about it because it would be silent, no? Your straw man argument only highlights your arrogance. You reference that disagreement between one user and the at-the-time administrator as if it is representative of how the Official Exalted Wiki runs now, or how it ran with regard to every other user who has ever been there. You misrepresent that site and the users who use it, and the only reason I'm even replying to your inane accusations is to clarify for other readers who might be confused by your insubstantial and unrepresentative commentary. You attempt to represent me and anyone else who seems to espouse the use of the Official Exalted Wiki as individuals who are incapable or unwilling to deal with dissenting opinions, and yet, you are even more guilty of it by your own commentary.


The only genuine and legitimate concern that I've seen from you, sir, regarding how the Official Wiki might not be a productive endeavor is in that White Wolf didn't have a history of keeping such pages up. This concern has proven to be a non-issue.


However, feel free to indulge me at any time and provide a complete list of users who were considered unwelcome to the new wiki, who told them such, and on what date they were told that. I'm genuinely curious. As for you not being welcome on the Official Exalted Wiki, the only person who has fostered that "feeling", either intentionally or unintentionally, is you. If I held the position that you were unwelcome on the Official Exalted Wiki, or if I were that petty, I could easily delete your userpage and any links to any materials that you've written for Exalted. However, I have no intentions of doing so. Please feel free to cease your baseless accusations and "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" act (Monty Python for the win!). StarHawk was kind enough to post this here for users interested in perhaps winning a little swag for a little bit of work - work that they were probably already engaged in as fans of this great game. You've done little else but attempt to push your own agenda that had little to nothing to do with the contest itself.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Easy folks.

 

[Flagg]

I hear Bodhisattva pals around with terrorists.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I hear Bodhisattva pals around with terrorists.

I know! That Neall Raemonn Price... Such a terrorist, I tells ya! Pretty soon, I'll be palling around with the likes of Malfeas and Szoreny, and then where will we be?