Help with Sidereal Schemes

[Persell]

I'm soon to be running a game that has my Circle caught between the machinations of the Bronze and Gold Factions. The Circle has had some dealings with the Gold faction through the CoI and such but were unaware of the true nature of their benefactors (The PCs didn't know it either a few times), so I've already got an easy way to get the group wrapped up in these Creation spanning plans. The ultimate goal of the story is for the Circle to uncover the truth about the Sidereals.


Only one problem, I've no idea what a proper Sidereal-ish scheme should be. I know that at least on the surface I want it to be a clash between the established Immaculate Order/Philosophy and the fledgling Cult of the Illuminated, as in our game the CoI is gaining a pretty strong hold in the Threshold, particularly in the Nexus area where we operate from. Any deeper than this an I'm kinda lost.


I want it to feel significantly sweeping and shadowy to do justice to the first open introduction of our group to the Sidereals. I also want to twist the player's expectations of whose on their side against them, everybody is pretty well versed in the whole Gold vs Bronze struggle, so I thought the Gold faction ultimate;y turning on them would make for a pretty satisfying plot twist.


Any suggestions from people that have ran/played in stories like this would be greatly helpful. Besides the basic setup about the Immaculates vs the Cult I've got no particular points, as this is intended to be happening in the background of the player's actions. Thanks!

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Who says it's changing anything to have the Gold Faction be foes of the Solars long term. Who wants to be a puppet? What of when the Gold Faction starts noticing that the modren Solars tend to go a little batshit now and again, and get worried that maybe they are causing history to repeat itself...in a much damaged age? A good piece of advice is to make sure at least some of the PCs have solid (read Perfect) Mental Defense charms. That gives them some protection should their Gold Faction 'mentors' decide that leaving them free willed is just too dangerous. Between spells, Social Charms and Sidereal and Celestial Martial Arts charms, there is certainly a danger of your Solars being chained to their Gold Faction masters if they lack a way to prevent such...and it would be prefectly in character for some of the Gold Faction types to do so. The head of the Sequestered Tabernacle would certainly view it as a sad necessity...but he'd do it without a qualm...and he's likely not the only one. The Gold Faction may view Solars as the proper rulers of Creation...but that's as much because they don't have the numbers or the time to do it themselves...so let the Solars lead...like they were designed for...so long as they lead exactly how we want them to. Gandalf did not lead armies...Aragorn did. Yet which of these two is the one more in control of the way things happened in the Lord of the Rings? Not the son of Arathorn, certainly. The Sidereals seek a similar role...whichever faction they are part of. Much of the Gold Faction's strategies are stolen part and parcel from the Bronze...because they worked once. Surely if the Bronze can manipulate the Realm and Shogunate, than we much wiser members of the Gold Faction can surely manage the Solars as well. Arrogance and inability to see the flaws in their own judgement are the flaws of the Sidereals.

 

[Persell]

I can only emphasize what Ledaal Kajiri said. If you want to pit your players against sidereals, make sure they are ready. Sure, sidereal martial arts are rare under the sidereals, still if you got nobody around who is immune to shaping and brainfucking a single sidereal martial artist can ruin the day.


As for schemes. I'd play on the fact that both factions don't usually talk about the other faction or anything going on in heaven. When the players defeat a rogue god, he gets audited in heaven and perhaps sent back to creation. Let the players and an ally stumble upon it and detail how the sidereal acts as if nothing happened, the god, too. Start with the little things and work your way upwards to that big conspiracy.

 

[Sherwood]

Players are notorious for leaving plot threads dangling.  Take notes about what happens in the game, which people do what.  Then, a dozen games down the road, pull out some dirt and tie it into the Great Plan Of Doom that your master villian is pulling off.  Perhaps this Sidereal is a person the group deals with on a frequent basis, but since he's disguised with his RD (i'm not going to try to spell it), they'll never know.  That's a spiffy way of knowing what the heros are up to.

 

[Charon]

The Sideral are the master schemer of creation only in their dreams.


In Practice, when a Sideral puts in motion a "masterplan", it is opposed by other siderals from the rival faction plus possibly by Deathlord, Rakhsa, Demons (None of whom are factored in their astrological powers) and now by Solars.  


Even the Mighty Chejop Kejak isn't doing so well.  He set himself up as a steward of creation after the Usurpation and under his "guidance" creation has lost more than half its territory, Deathlords are currently more powerful then they have ever been and now the Realm is in dissaray.  And he's the best Sideral of the lot!


So yeah, don't try to have your sideral implement a flawless masterplan under your Solar's nose.  Just remember what ressources each faction has at its disposal in the area and start a proxy battle.  Figuring out which official is being mindfucked, which merchant his a resplendant destiny for which faction etc.  Hide the real players under layers of mystery.   Doesn't matter if either of the masterplan is working.  


The Siderals do mystery a lot better than they do planning, really.

 

[Zaramis]

If you read the Sidereal-book, it's pretty obvious that they execute flawless masterplans all the time. It's just that every time one works, the rest of the world falls apart where they aren't active. That's what it seems like in the storyteller chapter, making people choose all the time between different priorities.


It doesn't matter how good they are ( and they are good ), the world is just too much, too much chaos and disorder. They do planning and mystery equally well, in my opinion, but their resources are severly limited, so it's built on fragile constructs that rely on a few key events, like that certain thing happening on the right moment, etc, just like the sample ideas in the book.

 

[Persell]

One option is to not concern yourself with plots at all. Have a series of seemingly unrelated (but big) events and let the PCs interact with them, or even cause a few. Then drop the bomb that there is a conspiracy those events are a part of, but that the goal is unknown.


The players will give you ideas for the conspiracy in their discussions and planning.


The benefits of that setup are several:


1) It saves you prep work.


2) It ensures that the PCs are tied into the plot because it relies on them to create it.


3) At least one player gets to feel nice and shiny because he "figured out" the plot.


It's got some downsides too though:


1) It requires a lot more work during the game. The prep work you avoid prior to the first session will still need to be done on the fly and in between sessions.


2) If the players are the type that flounder without clear direction, the discussions of possibilities this plan relies on may never happen, and you'll find yourself playing a lot of catch up.

 

[Persell]

If you read the Sidereal-book, it's pretty obvious that they execute flawless masterplans all the time. It's just that every time one works, the rest of the world falls apart where they aren't active. That's what it seems like in the storyteller chapter, making people choose all the time between different priorities.
It doesn't matter how good they are ( and they are good ), the world is just too much, too much chaos and disorder. They do planning and mystery equally well, in my opinion, but their resources are severly limited, so it's built on fragile constructs that rely on a few key events, like that certain thing happening on the right moment, etc, just like the sample ideas in the book.

That is wrong. The sidereal curse prevents them from doing something flawless as soon as two of them meet. And the flaw is most likely bound to blow the whole plan apart at the most inopportune moment. Like the last time they got rid of the solars and locked them up, forgetting that the solars are the only ones able to keep the wyld at bay without blowing creation up in the process. Should have been an "oops" moment, but sadly the great curse makes them also blind to their flaws. Ooops.


The cool thing about them, they try anyway.

 

[Zaramis]

Yes. Where in my post did you read about the curse? The curse is an entirely different chapter. It's strongest when they take decisions together, making them unable to work together etc, blowing their hubris up to epic proportions.


That has nothing to do with the fact that they constantly have schemes that work well, plans that are executed and catastrophes that are prevented through sidereal machinations. Read the storyteller chapter about sample adventures, again.

 

[Zaramis]

And it was hardly the fact that the Solars were the only ones that could keep the wyld at bay that was their great mistake. It was overlooking the fact that there is a great curse, as well as overlooking the fact that Chejop Kejak's way wasn't the ONLY path for them to take, nor that his predictions about the three different futures were the only possible outcomes. That was the big mistake and what led to the destruction of the solars etc.


Personally, I think they did the right thing. The solars are still twisted monsters, larger-than-life heroes that will go batshit crazy and destroy civilization again, even if they defeat all their opponents ( DB's, abyssals, the wyld, etc ). Unless they break the curse, but for now, that obviously wasn't done.


The usurpation was the morally correct thing to do. That the empire is flawed today is something entirely different and has nothing to do with it. Death to the Solars! Long live the Empire!


... Well, that was a little sidetracked Sorry.

 

[Charon]

Personally, I think they did the right thing. The solars are still twisted monsters, larger-than-life heroes that will go batshit crazy and destroy civilization again, even if they defeat all their opponents ( DB's, abyssals, the wyld, etc ).

Err, technically it's the Siderals that destroyed First Age's civilization through the usurpation.


Solars might have been mad, but they were civilization in the first age.  Without them, the wonders couldn't be maintained.


I'd also point out that without the Usurpation, there would be no Deathlord and therefore no Great Contagion.  And that in modern times, how are the Deathlord going to be stoppoed unless the remaining Solars manage it?  


The Prophecy gave 3 option, and one was to try to "fix" the Solars.  The outcome of that option was deemed incertain and the Siderals, who are quite a bit cowardly by the other Exalt's Standards, chose what they thought was the safest path.


Except of course they were wrong, it wasn't safer.  It just shoveled problems forward and since the Sideral did nothing useful with the time they thus bought, it was just a waste.  


1500 years later Creation is in at least as much danger as it was when the Solar were going mad.  Except this time around there are Deathlords, the Wyld has overrun 50% of Creation, First age lore (with nifty toy like Reality Engines) is largely lost, Solars are inexperimented and half of their numbers is working for the Neverborn or the Yozis.


Praised be the wise Siderals!  Creation is in good hand with them!


Whether the Solars will go as crazy as their ancient forbears is largely irrelevant.  Unless they stop the Deathlord, there is no future for Creation anyway.

 

[Persell]

*sigh* Zaramis, why do all your posts reek of fanboyism and are defensive?


Of course we cannot talk about sidereal masterschemes without figuring the great curse in. I gave you advance credit by thinking you automatically did, but obviously you did not. Quel dommage.

 

[Persell]

@Ledaal Kajiri  Thanks for the advice on the mental defense charms. My Circle hasn't done alot of Social Combat, so I imagine most ppl are going to be a bit thin on the ground in terms of mental defense. Any suggestions on which charms or how to suggest the group investing in them without simply telling them outright they'll need them?


@Safim and James McMurray Thanks for the general schemey-nish advice (yeah...schemey-nish...prove its not a word :wink: ). I'm not sure how directly I want the Circle to butt heads w/the Bronze faction, especially early on, but the Gold Faction isn't even telling the Circle about the existance of Sidereals, let alone the fact theer's two competing groups.


Anyone have any suggestions for just general schemes? As I said, the "front" in Creation will be a power struggle between the CotI and the Immaculates. I'd also like to get Lookshy involved, or at least a few family members from a Gen, as uneasy allies. My Circle needs to start building alliances if they're gonna save Creation. I also want to work in the Lunars, as the Elder Lunars are probably the "easiest" :roll: way to get info on the First Age and the Sidereals true nature. Thoughts?


@Everyone else  Thanks for the vigorous discussion on how the Sidereals may have or may have not doomed Creation by their actions during the Usurption, but thats not really the kind of info I'm looking for. Thanks again for the thoughts on the subject though.